The Transportation and Mass Transit Megathread

[Dale]

32 minutes ago, samsonh said:

Yet another effective Dale argument. 

Not so much argument as irony.

 

26 minutes ago, PruneTracy said:

I approve of this reference.

Also, this is me every time one of these threads goes political.

Typically, threads on forums like these go political when a stray conservative thought punctures the hive mind. Then things go downhill from there.

[UTgrad09]

Stop the political nonsense or get out. 

[Tennessine]

Some people come over here just to start s*** up. And they know it.

[markhollin]

There is the Coffeehouse Section set up for these kind of blatherings.  Feel free to go over there and wallow in it all you want.  Otherwise, please leave all the political BS off our our discussions about development, construction, etc.  Thank you.

https://www.urbanplanet.org/forums/forum/296-nashville-coffee-house/
 

[BnaBreaker]

I think part of the problem is that some are triggered by certain buzzwords or phrases and see political arguments where there are none being made.  I mean, as others have pointed out, there shouldn't be a reason really to bring unrelated national political issues into a discussion like this.

Edited November 1, 2018 by BnaBreaker

[AronG]

Yeah NYC is one of the lower crime cities (per capita) in the US.

I agree that the subway is somewhat of an embarrassment though. It's like one of the key ingredients that makes the city possible, and there's so much money and so many smart people there, but if you compare it to a city like London or Paris it's just bad in every possible way. It's dirty, but it's also less reliable, less safe (mechanically), less accessible, the technology is ancient and decrepit, there aren't enough stations, the trains don't run nearly often enough, and everything costs an order of magnitude more. I've read several analysis about why it is that way, and it's definitely a confluence of dysfunctional factors. I think at some level it boils down to the fact that, as a country, the evolution of our governance/contracting mechanisms and engineering pool has been focused on building world class road projects, with rail as a secondary focus. Until we really commit to investing in urban transportation the way the rest of the developed world does, we're gonna keep paying more than everybody else for second class results (https://www.citylab.com/transportation/2018/01/why-its-so-expensive-to-build-urban-rail-in-the-us/551408/).

[Neigeville2]

2 hours ago, AronG said:

Yeah NYC is one of the lower crime cities (per capita) in the US.

I agree that the subway is somewhat of an embarrassment though. It's like one of the key ingredients that makes the city possible, and there's so much money and so many smart people there, but if you compare it to a city like London or Paris it's just bad in every possible way. It's dirty, but it's also less reliable, less safe (mechanically), less accessible, the technology is ancient and decrepit, there aren't enough stations, the trains don't run nearly often enough, and everything costs an order of magnitude more. I've read several analysis about why it is that way, and it's definitely a confluence of dysfunctional factors. I think at some level it boils down to the fact that, as a country, the evolution of our governance/contracting mechanisms and engineering pool has been focused on building world class road projects, with rail as a secondary focus. Until we really commit to investing in urban transportation the way the rest of the developed world does, we're gonna keep paying more than everybody else for second class results (https://www.citylab.com/transportation/2018/01/why-its-so-expensive-to-build-urban-rail-in-the-us/551408/).

All true, but my sense is that those factors seem to come together in NYC in the worst way.  San Francisco for example has a pretty great transit system, and they've had to spend billions on BART doing things like replacing all the 50 year old electronics the system was designed around (no replacement parts available anymore), and replacing all the old cars which are now holding twice the number of peak time riders as they were designed for, and they just do it and don't make a fuss about it, all while building the extension to San Jose which has to cost a pretty penny as well.  And they're talking about building a second tunnel across the bay--the current one carries twice as many people at rush hour as the  Oakland Bay Bridge.

[markhollin]

This helps explain why rush hours nationally in many cities (including Nashville) have been getting worse this year:

https://www.wsmv.com/news/the-unexpected-reason-why-your-rush-hour-commute-is-so/article_8e3a7840-de29-11e8-80ff-873686f896df.html

[PaulChinetti]

"It also means no more lengthy breaks during rush hours, as the devices can instantly prove that long delays were taken during the day and were made up late at night.

“If I start this morning, I can't take off in the middle of the day and start again. I have to keep going until my time runs out,” said Jim Jernigan, owner of Jernigan Trucking."

This seems like a wild over sight? If they aren't driving (as proved by the device) then that means they were most likely resting and NOT driving? 

[PruneTracy]

11 minutes ago, PaulChinetti said:

This seems like a wild over sight? If they aren't driving (as proved by the device) then that means they were most likely resting and NOT driving? 

The objective is to get the truckers to get good sleep, not just to not be driving, hence the 14-hour on-duty limit. Otherwise they could drive one hour, rest one hour, etc. all day and only hit the same 11 hours of driving but then they wouldn't have gotten any sleep.

[NashvilleObserver]

On 10/31/2018 at 11:52 PM, nativetenn said:

As far as population is concerned, I disagree with the idea it can't be clean because NYC is so crowded. Part of that may be due to its age, but there are plenty of cities in other developed countries that have much cleaner subways than NYC's. We can't make too many excuses for how filthy some of our public services are. 

London has 24/7 workers cleaning the subways and streets. I asked a policeman where the trashcan was in the Underground and he said "just leave it in the corner and it will be picked up in a few minutes."

[Mr_Bond]

4 hours ago, PruneTracy said:

The objective is to get the truckers to get good sleep, not just to not be driving, hence the 14-hour on-duty limit. Otherwise they could drive one hour, rest one hour, etc. all day and only hit the same 11 hours of driving but then they wouldn't have gotten any sleep.

They were probably getting good sleep before this regulation hit but were having a nap during rush hour.  Sitting behind the wheel during rush hour can be more exhausting to me than being behind the wheel with less traffic on the road, so I imagine they're more tired under the new regs than they were when they could rest during rush hour.

There has got to be a better way.

[Dale]

Pretty cool low-budget strategy for Omaha ...

 

Edited November 7, 2018 by Dale

[Neigeville2]

 

On 11/6/2018 at 8:00 PM, Dale said:

Pretty cool low-budget strategy for Omaha ...

 

This is just the same as  the AMP.  Like the AMP proposal it has dedicated lanes and signal priority, which is apparently far beyond what is possible for Nashville.

[Dale]

What are odds that Nashville might soon reconsider something decidedly more doable like this ?

[nashvylle]

33 minutes ago, Dale said:

What are odds that Nashville might soon reconsider something decidedly more doable like this ?

 I think if it's done in a very small section (like East Nashville) and the cost is very light, it would be successful and lead to other legs. 

[Dale]

4 minutes ago, nashvylle said:

 I think if it's done in a very small section (like East Nashville) and the cost is very light, it would be successful and lead to other legs. 

Any discussions going on ? Transit proponents argued that if the referendum failed, it would take the city as much as a decade to revisit transit. But Briley seemed to talk like the city could find its footing much sooner than that. Heck, even Birmingham’s getting BRT.

[nashvylle]

1 minute ago, Dale said:

Any discussions going on ? Transit proponents argued that if the referendum failed, it would take the city as much as a decade to revisit transit. But Briley seemed to talk like the city could find its footing much sooner than that. Heck, even Birmingham’s getting BRT.

zero discussions going on from what I know.

Unfortunately it will be 5 years minimum for the next referendum in my opinion. 

[Dale]

5 minutes ago, nashvylle said:

zero discussions going on from what I know.

Unfortunately it will be 5 years minimum for the next referendum in my opinion. 

My surmise it that Nashville is “Go big or go home” which I could see going down big again. 

[nashvylle]

29 minutes ago, Dale said:

My surmise it that Nashville is “Go big or go home” which I could see going down big again. 

I think the only "go big" idea that would work is if we bought CSX's rail lines... which I know won't happen. 

[Neigeville2]

24 minutes ago, Dale said:

My surmise it that Nashville is “Go big or go home” which I could see going down big again. 

Well I guess you weren't paying attention,  but the reason we went big is that when we went small that went down in flames, thanks to the Koch brothers and Lee Beaman.  Fortunately Beaman has crawled back under his rock and is presumably back to bullying women and videotaping himself with prostitutes instead of telling Nashville how  to please him, but we still have a state legislature intent on overriding the vast majority of Nashville voters so I doubt Nashville can do anything so daring as to actually build a bus lane without paternalistic interference from those who know so much better than us how to manage our city.

[titanhog]

43 minutes ago, Neigeville2 said:

Well I guess you weren't paying attention,  but the reason we went big is that when we went small that went down in flames, thanks to the Koch brothers and Lee Beaman.  Fortunately Beaman has crawled back under his rock and is presumably back to bullying women and videotaping himself with prostitutes instead of telling Nashville how  to please him, but we still have a state legislature intent on overriding the vast majority of Nashville voters so I doubt Nashville can do anything so daring as to actually build a bus lane without paternalistic interference from those who know so much better than us how to manage our city.

Well...liberal Nashville / Davidson County votes it down.  But...yeah...blame someone else.  

Maybe convince liberals to get on board before you point fingers elsewhere.

[Dale]

1 hour ago, Neigeville2 said:

Well I guess you weren't paying attention,  but the reason we went big is that when we went small that went down in flames, thanks to the Koch brothers and Lee Beaman.  Fortunately Beaman has crawled back under his rock and is presumably back to bullying women and videotaping himself with prostitutes instead of telling Nashville how  to please him, but we still have a state legislature intent on overriding the vast majority of Nashville voters so I doubt Nashville can do anything so daring as to actually build a bus lane without paternalistic interference from those who know so much better than us how to manage our city.

Yeah, AMP went down because not big enough. Transit went down because not small enough. Maybe try BRT again.

[Tennessine]

33 minutes ago, titanhog said:

Well...liberal Nashville / Davidson County votes it down.  But...yeah...blame someone else.  

Maybe convince liberals to get on board before you point fingers elsewhere.

Great counterpoint, Titanhog. I agree. When a county that has not voted Republican since Reconstruction goes against a Democratic initiative by a 2-1 margin, you can only go so far to blame lobbyists. Clearly there is a gap between yuppies and blue-collar Democrats in Nashville. The "hip" precincts were the only ones to vote in favor. Even the most solid blue precincts in northern Davidson County were overwhelmingly against the referendum.

[FromParkAveToTN]

Once the baby boomers are out of political office and housing cost has pushed those who complained about the tax increase out if Davidson county,  maybe we'll finally get the transit system the green light to move forward.