The Transportation and Mass Transit Megathread

[Nathan_in_DC]

Great to have you on board Volanova. Philadelphia is a really cool place. Only been there once. I take it that you may have gone to school at UT from your name. Welcome to the site.

I'm from the Nashville area, lived there all my life before college at UT and then grad school at Villanova. Haven't left Philadelphia yet, even though I finished grad school a couple years ago. Lots of ties to Middle TN though, still, as all my family still lives around there, and I'm back in town every couple of months.

Gotta say though, I'm disappointed to see that the Philly section of the boards are dead. So much going on up here development and building wise, this city is changing for the better every week. Some sections are entirely different and nearly unrecognizable from what they were when I first came up 5 years ago.

Looking forward to keeping up with what's going on in Nashville!

[timmay143]

Interesting to see the numbers recently released by the RTA regarding the upswing in usage on the Music City Star. Hopefully people are actually starting to use the service enough to make it feasible and enough to have an impact on traffic on I-40. I noticed over the last couple of months someone was putting up unsourced information regarding a North-South Corridor line, and while I could find no mention of actual plans anywhere, it did get me to thinking that maybe something was in the works. Anyone seen any news on this?

Unfortunately, I'm afraid that unless they get more equipment and a dual-track system set up, this won't really take off. It's almost purely a commuter line right now, with the exception of special even trains and the 10:30 train on Saturday. Without regular later service, or at least past 10:30 service on Weekends, it's not going to do a lot to get people downtown. And with the limited population it serves right now, it won't do much. When they get a train to Murfreesboro, and hopefully in the future to Clarksville, Dickson and Franklin, I really do hope this will change, and it will become more useful to people who don't work downtown.

Anyway, first post, woo!

I think for Nashville the Star will only be for commuter and special events due to the track share, i.e. low frequency/high ridership. I think LRT/BRT could be implemented for higher frequency stops to the surrounding counties. Hopefully, the E/W BRT connectow will start the ball rolling for a larger, more expansive mass transit system in Nashville.

Also, welcome to the boards!!

[Nashvillain]

Good and bad news for Nashville in terms of sprawl and urban planning. The bad, the Nashville Metro area is the least dense, most sprawling metro in the nation. Its commuters log the most miles and longest commutes and if historical development patterns continue, the area will add some 365,000 acres of formerly rural land to its urban sprawl-scrape by 2035. However, The Nashville area Metropolitan Planning organization has come up with a plan to condense that development to a more reasonable area as well as a host of other smart, sustainable features as it plans for the future of the region.

Read about it in the short blog post via the Atlantic Cities

http://www.theatlanticcities.com/commute/2012/02/can-nashville-shake-its-sprawling-past/1241/

Also, add the Atlantic Cities and Kaid Benfield's blog to your reading list.

[timmay143]

March 9th is ride the bus for free day by MTA.

http://www.tennessean.com/article/20120225/NEWS01/302250061/-1/7daysarchives/Ride-MTA-buses-free-all-day-March-9

[timmay143]

This is great news!! Clarksville is considering joining RTA for commuting services!!! If you haven't traveled the corridor lately, commuter traffic is an issue. This should work well. I have a friend who commutes daily (5 days a week usually) to Hopkinsville from southeast of Nashville (OHB exit right after HH and right before RuCo). He was having trouble finding a job a few years back (even with an engineering degree) and ended up working for a firm there in Hopkinsville, KY right across the Clarksville, TN state line. The service would be commuter buses (I guess like the big "greyhound" type commuter buses by RTA we see now).

Clarksville City Council considers RTA membership for Nashville commuters

http://www.theleafch...EWS01/302240015

An excerpt from the article:

“We applied for a congestion mitigation air quality fund to pay for this service and to pay for it for three years,” Smith said. “The RTA already has an existing fleet of road coaches that they can perform this service with, but we’ll partner with the RTA to provide the service under the contract.”

Smith said the dues to belong to the RTA are 10 cents per citizen of the city’s population, totaling to a little over $13,000. He said the fare for a day, one way, would more than likely be $4, similar to the bus fare from Franklin to Nashville.

“But the more rides you buy, the number comes down,” he said. “I think the monthly pass is, and don’t hold me to this, I think it’s around $70.”

Clarksville started out with a van pool, which Smith thinks total to 26 or 27, and are all full with waiting lists.

“Right now we’ve got about 10,000 people commuting to Nashville daily,” he said. “We think we’ll see benefits from reverse commutes as well, possibly employees at the HSC plant and other places.”

Mayor Kim McMillan said the RTA deals with things like the Music City Star, other rail lines, car-pooling and ridesharing. Smith said in order for things like rail lines to be considered, the other forms of transportation have to work in Clarksville first.

Edited February 29, 2012 by timmay143

[timmay143]

Sweet.

Mass transit requests top $2.9 million in Middle Tennessee

http://www.tennessea...pnews{sodEmoji.|}text{sodEmoji.|}News

Six mass transit projects with a heavy emphasis on technology are competing for $1.65 million in federal funds to be awarded in Middle Tennessee this spring.

The recently submitted proposals include a smartphone app for bus riders, a computer system to match riders with carpools, Park-n-Ride lot improvements in Gallatin and Springfield, a short commuter rail siding line to increase train trips to and from Lebanon, and new bus-ticket vending machines for the Music City Central station downtown.

The Nashville Metro Transit Authority and Regional Transit Authority submitted four of the six proposals.

The $2.9 million requested goes beyond the funds available. Winning projects will be announced in May.

The Nashville Area Metropolitan Planning Organization announced the funding early this year and emphasized the creative use of existing funds for projects other than roadway construction.

Edited March 12, 2012 by timmay143

[Nathan_in_DC]

Anyone have any usage stats on those Park-n-Ride lots anyway? For some reason they've never seemed very appealing to me. I suppose the main benefit is not having to pay for parking downtown, but in reality, it seems like you have the option of driving to the parking lot, waiting on a bus, then waiting in the same traffic you'd otherwise drive in (for maybe a little cheaper), or just driving the entire way, cutting out the time spent waiting on a bus that's probably going to be late anyway.

And here's to hoping those sidings get built so that there are more than a half dozen trips each way on the train.

[dmillsphoto]

Anyone have any usage stats on those Park-n-Ride lots anyway? For some reason they've never seemed very appealing to me. I suppose the main benefit is not having to pay for parking downtown, but in reality, it seems like you have the option of driving to the parking lot, waiting on a bus, then waiting in the same traffic you'd otherwise drive in (for maybe a little cheaper), or just driving the entire way, cutting out the time spent waiting on a bus that's probably going to be late anyway.

And here's to hoping those sidings get built so that there are more than a half dozen trips each way on the train.

I use the lots for Preds games and just walk the 1/2 mile. It's good for the legs...

[Nathan_in_DC]

I use the lots for Preds games and just walk the 1/2 mile. It's good for the legs...

See, I think if they were presented more as suburban bus stations instead of just parking lots, then they'd get better usage. Put some amenities for people waiting, like heated areas, maybe a cafe, and you've got something that can work.

[timmay143]

I agree. Something needs to be done to promote transit. Some kind of spin to encourage people to utilize the components.

[Nathan_in_DC]

Exactly. The problem with the Nashville MTA, the RTA and other services isn't that they have a bad reputation, it's that they have a nonexistent reputation. They're just kind of there it seems.

[timmay143]

Study? Just look at what is in the article. They pretty much lay it out. Better, walkable communities with access to various transit options!! There's your freaking study! Seriously though, BRT lines and commuter rail would help a lot in this corridor.

Attempts to ease I-24 traffic woes creep along

Studies, much like congestion, are piling up, but changes may be on the way

http://www.tennessean.com/article/20120317/NEWS01/303170046/Attempts-ease-24-traffic-woes-creep-along?odyssey=tab{sodEmoji.|}topnews{sodEmoji.|}text{sodEmoji.|}FRONTPAGE

[MidTenn1]

There was a internal study done by the Tennessee Department of Transportation (TDOT) to recommend an Integrated Corridor Management (ICM) plan which would allow operation of I-24 in conjunction with the parallel US 41/70. The US highway would have message signs and traffic signals actually controlled from a Traffic Operations Center in Murfreesboro so traffic could be routed to thoroughfares with the most capacity and least delay.

ICM is a relatively new concept for coordinating all modes of transportation within one corridor. Only five such projects were approved by the FHWA (the Federal Government's most slow moving agency).

The TDOT proposal was described at public meetings, but never was advanced any further. Too bad.

[nashvillwill]

Study? Just look at what is in the article. They pretty much lay it out. Better, walkable communities with access to various transit options!! There's your freaking study! Seriously though, BRT lines and commuter rail would help a lot in this corridor.

Attempts to ease I-24 traffic woes creep along

Studies, much like congestion, are piling up, but changes may be on the way

http://www.tennessea...{sodEmoji.|}text{sodEmoji.|}FRONTPAGE

I'm glad to see that a few agencies are finally thinking about this.

I was born and raised in Antioch and spent a few years of my adult life there commuting to MTSU and Nashville. I used the bus route (96X) quite often, but was always very frustrated with it. I can't understand why it goes down M'boro road only. There desperately needs to be a I-24 express bus. Also, local bus service in Hickory Hollow is awful. Much of it is due to the road/residential design, but this can be improved over time.

I think a leg of the Music City Star would be great, but an express bus could be just as effective (and much more likely) if implimented well.

Something i didn't see mentioned in the article was the lack of enforcement of the HOV lane law. I always saw single passenger cars in the lane (probably as high as 80%), and never saw anyone get pulled over for this. It's almost like the law enforcement doesn't even acknolwedge the rule. If enforced with a higher penalty, people would complain at first, but it would make the lane much more effective and encourage people to actually carpool and use transit such as buses and motorcycles.

[nashvylle]

these "studies", "committees", etc. are not solving the problem. Build a freaking train. It's the only way we will reduce congestion. Public transportation in Nashville is just plain terrible. I blame our leadership. Karl Dean is doing the right thing, but I wish it was more aggressive. Something needs to happen and happen now. It is embarrassing how poor public transportation is in Nashville and how car dependent the city is

[bwithers1]

ICM is a relatively new concept for coordinating all modes of transportation within one corridor. Only five such projects were approved by the FHWA (the Federal Government's most slow moving agency).

This actually works pretty well. Back when the Interstates were being pushed through cities, Chicago's then-mayor Daley (the First) was able to work it out so that some of the train lines were connected to the interstates at some point and the trains ran down the center where the median was located. There are train stops at the major intersections with either stairs/elevators up or down to the street grade..

But this is actually an old idea. Daniel Burnham had proposed similar comingling of several modes of transportation along the same corridors in his Plan of Chicago at the turn of the century.

I think that this could work well in the Nashville area with a train line going down the center of I-24 to Clarksville and to M'boro better than buying right-of-way to add a separate train line through these areas.

Edited March 19, 2012 by bwithers1

[Nathan_in_DC]

This article posted today further solidifies the argument for better mass transit options in the area:

http://www.newschannel5.com/story/17188750/nashville-ranks-second-in-high-cost-of-commutes

Nashville Ranks Second In High Cost Of Commutes

Posted: Mar 19, 2012 7:56 AM EDT Updated: Mar 19, 2012 11:22 AM EDT

NASHVILLE, Tenn. - A new survey ranks Nashville second to highest among the top 51 metropolitan areas in terms of cost of commutes.

The average Nashville family spends about $15,000 a year on trips to work, school and shopping. That's about 30-percent of their income.

The Center for Neighborhood Technology said a lack of public transportation, long commutes, and high gas prices contribute to the ranking.

[MidTenn1]

This actually works pretty well. Back when the Interstates were being pushed through cities, Chicago's then-mayor Daley (the First) was able to work it out so that some of the train lines were connected to the interstates at some point and the trains ran down the center where the median was located. There are train stops at the major intersections with either stairs/elevators up or down to the street grade..

I think that this could work well in the Nashville area with a train line going down the center of I-24 to Clarksville and to M'boro better than buying right-of-way to add a separate train line through these areas.

One suggested internal concept for this corridor (that never reached any advanced planning stage) was to install reversible HOV lanes in the median to allow two extra lanes into Nashville in the morning and two extra lanes out in the evening. The HOV lanes could support Bus Rapid Transit (BRT) without having to add rails, etc. There would be stations at various points to pick up commuters. Once the BRT got close to downtown, it would leave the interstate and follow 41-A with preferential taffic signal operation (green all the way).

[timmay143]

This actually works pretty well. Back when the Interstates were being pushed through cities, Chicago's then-mayor Daley (the First) was able to work it out so that some of the train lines were connected to the interstates at some point and the trains ran down the center where the median was located. There are train stops at the major intersections with either stairs/elevators up or down to the street grade..

But this is actually an old idea. Daniel Burnham had proposed similar comingling of several modes of transportation along the same corridors in his Plan of Chicago at the turn of the century.

I think that this could work well in the Nashville area with a train line going down the center of I-24 to Clarksville and to M'boro better than buying right-of-way to add a separate train line through these areas.

DC has a Metro train in the median too on at least Interstate 66.

I think a multiple transit approach is best. It takes advantage of the pros of each. Express bus routes can be more easily implemented, mobile (routes), and relieve some traffic while commuter train can be the beginning to more frequent train service (like the plans for the east leg). This (multimode transportation) can work better for this corridor because there is probably more traffic here (than the east corridor).

[timmay143]

GREAT article written by Margot Fosnes is the president and chief economic development officer of the Robertson County Chamber of Commerce:

http://www.tennessea...t-needs-growing

I can't believe we actually have officials who think like this. They use reasoning and show both sides! Also big props to Lipscomb University who have taken, surprisingly, big steps to promote and educate sustainability!!

In conversations with my classmates, it is clear that the challenge of meeting the growing transportation needs of our communities is great and there are no easy answers. More transit opportunities will require dedicated funding and additional fees, taxes and surcharges are never welcomed. It is important that we all realize that our roads are not free either, and that widening roadways and adding lanes to interstates is tremendously costly as well. Our love affair with our cars is likely not sustainable in the long run and serious thought must be given to ride-sharing, bus routes, and opportunities to utilize existing railways for commuting.

[dmillsphoto]

We need this.

[nashvylle]

http://www.good.is/post/how-speedy-buses-totally-changed-china-s-third-largest-city/#comment_stream

good article. While I think we need rail to the outer counties, BRT can really be a good solution to Urban Nashville, if dedicated lanes are built.

[bwithers1]

Attached is an article about Nashville's Public Bike Program. It sounds like in addition to the free check-out program at some community centers, there are going to be fee-based bike rentals as well in the near future.http://www.tennessean.com/article/20120402/NEWS01/304020030/Nashville-s-public-bike-program-still-training-wheel-stage?odyssey=mod{sodEmoji.|}newswell{sodEmoji.|}text{sodEmoji.|}{sodEmoji.|}s

[nashvylle]

http://data.tennessean.com/Tennessean/cobrand/index.php?u=http%3A%2F%2Fblogs.tennessean.com%2Fpredators%2F2012%2F04%2F12%2Fzetterberg-weber-targeted-head-with-dirty-shot%2F&h=3291419098df301b0dd76910c494f065

Imagine the great things 1.5 bn spent on high speed rail would do for Tennessee. Makes me angry 1.5 bn is going strictly for roads.

[Nathan_in_DC]

That link was to a blog entry about the Preds...

EDIT: I think this is the intended link: http://www.tennessean.com/article/20120413/NEWS01/304130066/TN-unveils-1-5B-roads-plan?odyssey=tab{sodEmoji.|}topnews{sodEmoji.|}text{sodEmoji.|}News

That being said, it is very frustrating to see other projects languish while items like this get pushed through. It's nothing more than a band aid to the current traffic woes. You can make all the new overpasses and onramps in the world that will help a couple of local traffic problems temporarily, however they don't actually make any headway towards solving the problem at hand. $1.5b could go a LONG way to giving us a viable commuter rail system, or set up an efficient and effective BRT system.

Edited April 13, 2012 by Volanova