The Transportation and Mass Transit Megathread

[Hey_Hey]

Hey, Hey-Hey

Welcome to Nashville!

The plan, per Mayor Dean, is to have the East-West BRT up and running in 2015 so 3 years and not 5. I also agree with with your assessment of the sensibility of BRT over LRT.

When you get to town you should attend a monthly meeting we organize to converse about Nashville development.

Yeah, I'll have to come sometime. Won't be able to contribute much, but I can hopefully learn some things. When/where is the meet?

[Guest]

Here is the discussion link

http://www.urbanplanet.org/forums/index.php/topic/38759-nashville-forum-meeting/page__pid__1167263__st__260#entry1167263

Normally, the meeting is held on the first Saturday of the month at Casablanca Coffee in the Icon building of the Gulch.

[timmay143]

I'm coming to a slightly different conclusion than some others in regard to the decision to go with BRT over LRT or streetcar. Sure, if fingers could be magically snapped and have one or the other in place, I think almost everyone would choose LRT over BRT. However, Nashville finds itself without the ability to snap its fingers and have something in place. In a fiscal climate where more and more of our tax dollars are being shunted to entitlement programs and debt management, the decision may have actually been BRT or nothing.

As long as the developers of the BRT corridor make this true BRT, then I think the metrics of the system will be almost exactly the same as they would be for LRT. If that is the case then it is hard to justify paying more than twice the cost to have an LRT instead of BRT. Nashville can get this built for $135 million and at least a couple years quicker than LRT. BRT this time around also gets us closer to the next BRT line. When it comes to the impact that transit systems have, coordinating lines will create a system that is greater than the sum of its parts. If Nashville could get this BRT system up and running in 5 years, then hopefully in another 5 years it could have a coordinating BRT line between Metrocenter, through downtown, and to the airport (or wherever it is best to be put).

Welcome!! I agree 100% with this! I see this BRT line taking off and more routes added sooner than later.

One question I have is, why is there not a station between the 21st station and the convention center station? That seems like pretty good stretch that would be without a stop. Putting a stop around 16th street would be convenient for much of Music Row and the developments around Demonbreun.

You can keep up with and get involved (inquire about and raise support for an additional stop) with the E/W connector. You can try these organizations who have FB pages and websites:

Transit Alliance of Middle Tennessee:

http://www.facebook....nceMidTN?ref=ts

http://www.thetransitalliance.org/

http://www.thetransi...west-connector/

Transit Now Nashville:

http://www.facebook....sitNowNashville

http://transitnownashville.org/

Nashville Area MPO:

http://www.facebook.com/NashvilleMPO

http://www.nashvillempo.org/

Cumberland Region Tomorrow:

http://www.facebook.com/crtomorrow

http://www.cumberlandregiontomorrow.org/

[timmay143]

Finally, set in stone. This is great that there is organizations and funding to get leaders (county and city mayors, etc.) together to discuss these types of things. The only down side, which really isn't a big downer, is the lack of buses!! This should be a great way to expand transit options and give transit some great visibility. If the success is very positive, then maybe we see commuter rail to Clarksville sooner than later. Again, IMO, smart to start small, yet earlier than other options. Not that other options are bad or wrong, but first it seems critical and more logical to get the public on board and involved before we bust the big boys out!

New commuter line for Clarksville to begin in June:

http://www.theleafch...=&utm_campaign=

Archive purposes:

CLARKSVILLE, TENN. — Clarksville will soon be getting a commuter bus line to Nashville through the Middle Tennessee Regional Transit Authority.

Clarksville Transit System Director Jimmy Smith spoke at the city budget hearings Tuesday afternoon about the funding the new bus line will need to operate.

CTS will get about $275,000 from the federal government and $34,375 from the state. Smith said all the transit system needs now is $34,375 from the city in order to complete the funding for the new line.

Smith said the idea started with a conversation with the mayor. From there, he talked to the Regional Planning Commission on how the new bus line could be funded.

“There is a federal program called CMAQ, it stands for Congestion Mitigation Air Quality, and so there was some competitive money available and the MPO offered the grant and we were successful in getting the money to pay for this service through that grant,” he said.

The City Council voted to approve a membership with the RTA at the Feb. 24 council meeting, which the County Commission also did. The membership allows City Mayor Kim McMilland, County Mayor Carolyn Bowers and an at-large representative of the city and county to participate in all the discussions of transportation.

The RTA held a public meeting Tuesday morning to discuss the new service. Arthur Bing, the deputy transit director for CTS attended the meeting and said most of the Nashvillians interested showed positive reactions to the new line.

“The only concerns they had were there won’t be enough buses,” Bing said. “Thats one of the biggest thing they wanted was more buses because it’s not a guaranteed thing. It’s going to be first come, first served and people don’t want to get stranded.”

Smith said CTS will hold a public meeting in Clarksville some time in May to answer any questions Clarksvillians may have. He expects a single trip to Nashville will cost $4 and $70 for 20 rides. The new service is expected to start at the beginning of June.

Allison Smith, 245-0262

City government reporter

[email protected]

Edited May 2, 2012 by timmay143

[franktown]

I visited East Nashville for the first time yesterday, and was totally blown away by how cool it was. It got me thinking though, should the E-W Connector go Woodland or Main for the best redevelopment potential? I was taking a look at the plans this morning and was trying to visualize which street would be better suited for it. Thoughts?

EDIT: Here's a link with the possible alignments in case you've forgotten - http://eastwestconnector.org/pdf/corridor_map_0811.pdf

Edited May 16, 2012 by franktown

[MTSUBlueraider86]

I cannot wait to move to East Nashville! I would love Main Street to be the connector! Right in front of my building!

[nashvylle]

Good question, but I'm more concerned with the funding. Does anyone have any inside info on this? We need to move ahead on this asap, and have the BRT be as identical to rail as possible (i.e. dedicated lanes, very modern buses, etc.)

[franktown]

^ Agreed. I mentioned the forthcoming BRT to people that I took my "field trip" to East Nashville with and the second I said "bus" they got less excited. It really is so much more practical than other modes of transport though...

[timmay143]

Good question, but I'm more concerned with the funding. Does anyone have any inside info on this? We need to move ahead on this asap, and have the BRT be as identical to rail as possible (i.e. dedicated lanes, very modern buses, etc.)

From http://www.eastwestconnector.org/

The multi-year project now enters its second phase where it will be further refined with more detailed cost and ridership analysis. This phase includes preliminary engineering and an environmental assessment that must be completed before the project can be eligible for potential federal funding.

^ Agreed. I mentioned the forthcoming BRT to people that I took my "field trip" to East Nashville with and the second I said "bus" they got less excited. It really is so much more practical than other modes of transport though...

I think once people see how effective this is and try it out, it won't matter what the vehicle is.

I visited East Nashville for the first time yesterday, and was totally blown away by how cool it was. It got me thinking though, should the E-W Connector go Woodland or Main for the best redevelopment potential? I was taking a look at the plans this morning and was trying to visualize which street would be better suited for it. Thoughts?

EDIT: Here's a link with the possible alignments in case you've forgotten - http://eastwestconne...or_map_0811.pdf

How about both!

[timmay143]

It's about damn time!!

Commuting to be made easier with real-time information about buses

http://www.tennessea...ion-about-buses

Holy, omg! Smart decisions!?

The MPO made a point earlier this year of allotting some money for innovative travel ideas other than construction of roadways.

MTA Director of Planning James McAteer said the bus app will take some of the stress out of commuting.

“You can know if you’ve got time to grab that cup of coffee,” McAteer said. “We’re just trying to make it more attractive to ride.”

Slowly catching up, but there is a wait time for this...next April.

It’s an idea already in use in hundreds of cities, and one that hit home recently when a board member with

Transit Now Nashville

tried to ride a bus downtown.

Dave Keiser said he hustled down from the 18th floor where he works and barely missed a bus.

“If I had an app, whether it was on my computer or on my phone, I would have known,” he said.

Now Keiser’s nonprofit is partnered with MTA to make that app.

“The goal is to take time out of the equation,” he said. “With everything we do with our daily tasks, there is always an issue of time … Do we have enough time to work out? Do we have enough time to wait for the bus?"

The bus schedule provides ideal arrival times.

“But it’s not perfect,” Keiser said.

“If you have that app, it’s going to take away that anxiety of using public transportation,” he said.

Transit Now Nashville will raise $14,000 to contribute to the overall project, which

could go live by next April

, and the group is already planning to promote the app, including with college freshmen.

Keiser said the app could also increase ridership, which was recently shown in a study of Chicago’s bus system, where real-time arrival apps attracted new bus riders and increased overall ridership by about 2 percent, according to news reports.

A nice effort to reduce congestion and increase mass transit in car and vanpools for WillCo.

Meanwhile, the largest grant went to Williamson County and the TMA Group, a nonprofit that manages more than 90 vanpools with 1,300 riders in the region.

That project will bring together all carpool, vanpool and transit information for commuters. TMA wants large employers to put up screens that show real-time ride availability, similar to flight screens at airports, and also provide the same information via computer and phone applications.

The system will also create a “social marketplace” where drivers can let others know about open seats and where riders can search for a one-time ride, even with short notice.

“The goal for us with this pilot project is overall to reduce commuter growth in single-occupancy vehicles,” said Debbie Henry, executive director of TMA Group. “People do want to get out of their (cars) but they just don’t know how.”

Henry said TMA Group wants to double rideshare participation in the next three years.

One miss though.

The only proposal that did not receive funds suggested building a short commuter rail siding line for the Music City Star, which would have taken up a majority of the available money.

[bwithers1]

I cannot wait to move to East Nashville! I would love Main Street to be the connector! Right in front of my building!

I am pretty sure that Main Street is planned for the BRT route, unless something has drastically changed since the last presentation that I saw. Woodland Street is already relatively narrow, and effectively serves as an overflow church parking lot on Sundays for First Nazarene. Even without that, removing one lane of traffic on Woodland would make it a nightmare, and would pretty much literally force bicycles onto sidewalks.

I'm not sure about a 5th/Main stop, though. The existing BRT stops at 7th/Main and the stop is labeled for Meigs Magnet School one block north of that intersection. And frankly there is more happening near 7th and Main than at 5th and main. I'm thinking of the Paro South Creative office suites building and some of the small retailers. 7th/Main is also relatively close to the East Park Community Center. Whereas 5th and Main is so dominated by church parking lots (which also serve as Titans parking lots) and gas stations that it is pretty over/underwhelming for pedestrians.

I'm still hoping that the city will somehow merge the new and the existing BRT lines on Main Street.

Edited May 21, 2012 by bwithers1

[BnaBreaker]

MTA bus tracking smartphone App coming:

http://nashvillecitypaper.com/content/city-news/weekly-obsession-mtas-app

[nashvylle]

Is there any timetable for when we will have a decision on dedicated funding / vote on dedicated funding for the BRT?

[timmay143]

Is there any timetable for when we will have a decision on dedicated funding / vote on dedicated funding for the BRT?

Good question. I couldn't find any definite timetables. There may not be one, but I'll leave a question on their FB page.

[Nathan_in_DC]

I mentioned this in the forum meet thread, but I wanted to bring it up over here. A couple of weekends ago when I was in town, I wanted to catch a bus on 21st in Hillsboro Village to downtown. Unfortunately, on a Saturday in the middle of the day in a section of town with one of the highest levels of pedestrian activity, not to mention tourists, the bus only ran once an hour. The freaking suburban commuter trains in Philadelphia run more often than that, and the transit agency running those, SEPTA, is renowned as one of the worst in any major city in the US. On top of this, had I decided to try and get one, I would have been completely ripped off. I could not locate a ticket counter or machine anywhere near where I was, and was going to get screwed over if I paid with the $20 in my pocket due to the fact that change was given on a transit card. Frankly, I could have called a cab and been downtown and back for $20.

No wonder ridership is so terrible in Nashville. What do you expect when it's so inconvenient?

[East Side Urbanite]

Volanova,

Very good points you make. I've taken the bus from H-Village to downtown and it was great. But I was lucky and basically caught the bus immediately after I left Bosco's (with some quality craft beer in my system, no less).

WW

[Nathan_in_DC]

Craft beer does make the world seem a better place!

Are you aware of any plans in the works to increase service rates with the summer tourist season beginning this weekend? Or do they just not have enough buses to do it?

[smeagolsfree]

I really do not see the Dean administration doing the BRT the right way. I hope I am wrong but I think they will short cut it and screw it up. The only way Nashville is going to compete with larger cities and our peer cities for business is to get a LRT and or a much improved commuter rail line from all directions.

Just got back from Chicago and was very impressed with the transit system there.You are able to get real time just by texting the information listed at each bus stop and it gives you the exact time of the next bus. Very cool. Amazing thing is the trains were packed at 3 and 4 on the morning and at midnight and midday.

BTW, I am in no way comparing Chicago to Nashville. Will never happen. Its just they did it the right way

[BnaBreaker]

I really do not see the Dean administration doing the BRT the right way. I hope I am wrong but I think they will short cut it and screw it up. The only way Nashville is going to compete with larger cities and our peer cities for business is to get a LRT and or a much improved commuter rail line from all directions.

Just got back from Chicago and was very impressed with the transit system there.You are able to get real time just by texting the information listed at each bus stop and it gives you the exact time of the next bus. Very cool. Amazing thing is the trains were packed at 3 and 4 on the morning and at midnight and midday.

BTW, I am in no way comparing Chicago to Nashville. Will never happen. Its just they did it the right way

I couldn't agree more. I love my hometown. But every time I go back to Nashville I am just stunned at how infantile the mass transit system is. I mean, it really is just a bare bones, bare minimum system, and it's pretty embarrassing how content Nashville is with never blazing any trails and never being the leader even amongst it's peers (much less the country) in anything. It's always the slow car trailing the rest of the pack that puts together something half assed only after waiting as long as it possibly can to put it off and doing it for as cheap as it possibly can.

I'm all for saving money too. Government waste (on all levels) is obviously an issue. But at some point I fear that this overall level of cheapness is going to catch up with the city. I do see signs that things may be starting to change slightly, but then I see the Dean Administration select BRT over the LRT that peer cities in direct competition with Nashville already have or are building (Charlotte, Raleigh, Austin, OKC etc.) and I just have to hang my head with disappointment.

I am trying to stay optimistic about the BRT system, but I have to think that eventually this rather lazy decision is going to catch up to Nashville and that we are going to start losing out to these other cities that have far more ambitious plans. Even if the BRT system is absolutely top notch (which, like you smeagolsfree, I don't think it will be), and no matter how well it works, it will still just be a system of buses, and pure and simple, that just isn't as attractive.

My frustration is taken to a whole new level when I consider the fact that had we decided to build an LRT system, the city itself would finally be taking a major step at definitively vaulting ahead of the most direct of it's competitors, Williamson County, by doing something that they simply cannot do. Anyway, I'm just rambling at this point. I just wish this city had more ambitious goals, I guess is what I'm saying.

[MLBrumby]

True that. Also, one big reason Nashville is behind its peers is because it has virtually no representation on the federal level. Regardless of your political leanings, you have to admit that the one-party domination in Metro has been horrible for electing good reps to Congress. Bill Boner, Bob Clement, and now Jim Cooper are not even respected by their party in the Congress. Jim Cooper has stood proudly on not voting for earmarks, while at the same time voting for enormous trillion-dollar expansions of federal programs. While being a reliable vote for the Democrats for their social programs, he basically removes any leverage he might have with the budget committee by refusing to vote for earmarks. In essence, when his party is in charge of things they can take his vote for their big initiatives for granted, and needen't worry about the budgetary consequences. Regardless of how you feel about reckless government spending, it's the Washington game... and Cooper is a bencher.

[MTSUBlueraider86]

I have met Jim Cooper several times over the years. Nice Man. However, 11 years later and no Federal Courthouse, No mass transit, nothing. He won't spend a dime, and he acts more like a Republican than a Democrat. He has not championed any projects that make the city more of a world class city. I don't think he was for the stimulus money that paid for the 1-40 expansion at White Bridge Road either.

The bottom line is Nashville is going to keep getting further behind.

[Nathan_in_DC]

It's not even a matter of getting the money...if Nashville really got motivated about keeping up with the Joneses and spurring development, they would find the cash in the budget for at least some starter projects. Of course, diverting money from any of a thousand projects is going to end up angering someone, so it will take a politician with a backbone and enough political clout to swing other people to their side to make it happen. Unfortunately, it seems so often that a minority of people are supportive of such things, or even worse, care enough to have an opinion one way or the other.

Honestly? I can respect someone for standing against expansions to MTA/RTA's budget. They just seem to squander what they have and continue to provide a bare minimum of service. I don't agree with them, and I think resources have to be diverted to fund new and better projects, but I can understand it when someone feels resources can be better spent elsewhere. What I can't understand (or forgive) is the complete apathy so many Nashvillians and Middle Tennesseans seem to have towards the betterment of the city and the region in this manner.

[nashvylle]

Jim Cooper is terrible, just terrible when it comes to transportation. He said the Music City Star is a complete failure, so why put another dime into funding mass transit?

1. The Music City Star was created not because they met the highest demand, but because it was the cheapest. Despite that, ridership has exceeding expectations DESPITE not having anything competent once the riders get to downtown nor having passenger trips that meet the riders' schedules (last depart is around 430pm???)

2. Anyone with brains can understand that gas prices can completely hault the economy and will hurt the lower classes much more than the wealthy, so instead of Tennessee spending BILLIONS on maintaining and implementing roads that destroy the environment and create an even more dependancy on cars, we could divert some of that money to mass transit.

3. I hate the "mass transit never pays for itself" argument. WHEN HAVE ROADS/INTERSTATES PAID FOR THEMSELVES????

I do want streetcars for the East/West Connector (or at least buses in East Nashville and Harding Road sections with streetcars in the downtown/west end section), but if we go all buses, I think it can be very effective if NO cars are allowed in the BRT lane, and the buses themsevles look as urban/modern/train as possible. Too many people in Nashville refuse to use the buses because they think they are for the poor. As more people move into the core, and they say the efficiency of this system, it will work.

[Nathan_in_DC]

Jim Cooper is terrible, just terrible when it comes to transportation. He said the Music City Star is a complete failure, so why put another dime into funding mass transit?

1. The Music City Star was created not because they met the highest demand, but because it was the cheapest. Despite that, ridership has exceeding expectations DESPITE not having anything competent once the riders get to downtown nor having passenger trips that meet the riders' schedules (last depart is around 430pm???)

The Star is not a money maker, but it is as successful as it could possibly be considering that it doesn't serve a highly dense area, has stations that are questionably placed, and runs only infrequently. And for what it's worth, I just checked the schedule, and it has weekday departures from downtown at 658, 745, 845, 1620, 1705, and 1745 (plus 22:30 on Fridays).

The fact that there is NO Saturday or Sunday service (except for special events) is frustrating. Mid-day and evening service on Saturdays would be great.

[nashvylle]

If the Music City Star was expanded to Rutherford County, it would be expensive, some people would whine, but it would be extremely successful wih ridership and would reduce traffic congestion on the interstates.

Edited May 30, 2012 by nashvylle