The Transportation and Mass Transit Megathread

[donNdonelson2]

9 minutes ago, Dale said:

Having just visited, I can vouch for this.

When I was last there in February/early March, the conditions were so disgusting that I refused to bring my walking shoes home. After several weeks on those filth laden sidewalks they were NOT going back into my suitcase. Glad I had worn “travel day” shoes that had not been out on the dirty streets of San Francisco! (I did leave the other shoes, not in bad shape at all, in a plastic bag-marked with size-out in front of the hotel. I’m sure somebody snatched them up pretty quickly.)

[Tennessine]

2 hours ago, Dale said:

All those overhead wires are U-G-L-Y.

Better looking than all the above-ground powerlines in Nashville 

[Dale]

32 minutes ago, Tennessine said:

Better looking than all the above-ground powerlines in Nashville 

Yeah, but they don’t extend over the street. Toronto is even worse. Ugliest public realm I’ve ever seen. 

[MidTenn1]

The overhead trolley wires are necessary, but to me add a certain urban charm. You know you are in a special city when you see those and transportation is right there if you need it. They don't bother me at all.

[BnaBreaker]

1 hour ago, Dale said:

Yeah, but they don’t extend over the street. Toronto is even worse. Ugliest public realm I’ve ever seen. 

Toronto is the ugliest city you've ever seen?  Wow.  To each they're own, but that's certainly a unique opinion!  

[Dale]

7 hours ago, BnaBreaker said:

Toronto is the ugliest city you've ever seen?  Wow.  To each they're own, but that's certainly a unique opinion!  

Toronto’s actually one of my favorite cities. It’s just not a looker.

 

[BnaBreaker]

27 minutes ago, Dale said:

Toronto’s actually one of my favorite cities. It’s just not a looker.

 

Fair enough!  Just not something I hear every day so it surprised me!  haha

[Dale]

42 minutes ago, BnaBreaker said:

Fair enough!  Just not something I hear every day so it surprised me!  haha

Hehe

[rookzie]

On 10/17/2019 at 8:12 AM, Dale said:

All those overhead wires are U-G-L-Y.

 

On 10/17/2019 at 8:27 AM, bigeasy said:

True, but the city is filthy so it is a good complement.

Ha!  You think THat's ugly, eh?  Then see this!
(what I rode in Seattle ─ King County Metro ─ over10 years ago and again 4 years ago ─ Madison Street, and 8th and Pine.

Where the ETB (electric trolley bus) meets the streetcar ─ Route divergence

Edited October 19, 2019 by rookzie

[rookzie]

On 10/17/2019 at 11:35 AM, PHofKS said:

The overhead trolley wires are necessary, but to me add a certain urban charm. You know you are in a special city when you see those and transportation is right there if you need it. They don't bother me at all.

They fascinate me as well, kind of like Electric Spider Webs.

The double poles used on electric trolley coaches (buses) as opposed to the single pole on streetcars) also are cool in that they slew left and right to allow operators quite a bit of lateral movement along the trolley path.  The electric switches are cool too, where  routes diverge.

While wires for trolley coaches are more complex than those for streetcars and even for light-rail catenary suspension (Memphis has both types of wires for its streetcars, for aspiration of future light rail), that's something Nashville will have to deal with, if it ever elects to build and to expand such a system.  Particularly with streetcars, the wires must be along city streets, since streetcars by design are intended as urban circulators.  One reason that Memphis has become an increasingly major tourist attraction is the charm from its vintage streetcars,  the only Tenn. city which dared to bring back (real) streetcars (1993, with expansions in 1997 and 2004), after it was the last Tenn city to discontinue electric trolleys (1960, with the close of its trolley bus lines).

Detroit's QLine streetcar on Woodward Ave. is a contemporary example of battery-electric streetcars, which run primarily on stored power, but stop at in-line charging stations periodically.  They actually are dual-mode vehicles, engineered to run either on battery or on overhead wire while charging, similar to Dayton's (Greater Dayton RTA) new dual-mode battery-electric trolley buses, built by the same firm (Gillig) which built WeGo Transit's newest lot of diesel-electric hybrid buses.  In the case of Detroit's streetcars (as well as recent deliveries in Dallas and in Seattle), they are "hybrid" as onboard or externally powered.

Memphis, Medical Center line, Madison St. (not nearly as bad looking as Seattle's Madison St.)

 

New Double-Articulated Trolley Coach (bus) - Switzerland

 

Detroit's Battery-Powered Modern Streetcar - QLine

 

In-line Charging station, Detroit's QLine

Edited October 21, 2019 by rookzie

[Tennessine]

I love your posts @rookzie

[Vrtigo]

Edited October 19, 2019 by Vrtigo

[rookzie]

8 hours ago, Tennessine said:

I love your posts @rookzie

I babble too much, Tennessine, the reason I try and just hang low anymore.  I used to really be a turbo-diesel motor mouth some 4-6 years ago.  I learn from just listening and lurking these days, until something yanks the chain..

[Dale]

Yeah, Seattle supplanted Toronto as ugliest.

[AronG]

On 10/18/2019 at 10:57 PM, rookzie said:

...

Detroit's QLine streetcar on Woodward Ave. is a contemporary example of battery-electric streetcars, which run primarily on stored power, but stop at in-line charging stations periodically.  They actually are dual-mode vehicles, engineered to run either on battery or on overhead wire while charging, similar to Dayton's (Greater Dayton RTA) new dual-mode battery-electric trolley buses...

 

To me this seems like the best solution for everything from buses to trolleys to trams. Stick only enough batteries in them to go a few miles, then outfit the biggest stop every mile or so with an overhead line to charge it and have them pause for a minute to top up. Doesn't require stringing overhead lines throughout the city, allows you to get away with much smaller batteries in the rolling stock (making them lighter and cheaper), gets all the benefit of quiet emission-free transport...

[rookzie]

2 hours ago, AronG said:

To me this seems like the best solution for everything from buses to trolleys to trams. Stick only enough batteries in them to go a few miles, then outfit the biggest stop every mile or so with an overhead line to charge it and have them pause for a minute to top up. Doesn't require stringing overhead lines throughout the city, allows you to get away with much smaller batteries in the rolling stock (making them lighter and cheaper), gets all the benefit of quiet emission-free transport...

Battery-electric technology for streetcars is still under trial within the U.S. and currently works best on level terrain such as in Detroit.  Seattle uses dual-mode streetcars on battery only to bridge gaps needed within their network and also as emergency power during failures.  Seattle is rather hilly (to say the least), and battery-only runs between full charges would not be as effective as in Detroit's setting.

Also, battery-electric is not practical for LRT (light rail transit), which is much beefier than streetcar construction, which is intended to travel over much longer distances, and which is scalable in capacity with coupled multiple units.   LRT vehicles need sustained external power source for higher speeds than those of streetcars (which travel usually no more than 30 mph) and for longer commuting distances.  Otherwise, as an alternative to external electric, LRT would need to be implemented as DMUs (Diesel Multiple Units), as with CapMetro in Austin and NJTransit's River Line (Camden - Trenton).

Diesel Multiple Unit (DMU) ─ CapMetro (made by Stadler Rail of Switzerland)

 

Diesel Multiple Unit (DMU) ─ NJ Transit River Line (made by Stadler Rail)

Edited October 21, 2019 by rookzie

[MLBrumby]

Mayor Cooper should hire you, Rookzie, as a consultant for any transit he'd like to develop there. 

[nashvylle]

NYC is banning cars on certain roads, and seeing success. Will not happen in Nashville, but perhaps in the distant future?

https://www.nydailynews.com/news/politics/ny-city-car-ban-34th-42nd-streets-14th-street-busway-corey-johnson-20191021-p6etls67endqfow5lwu35vr4rm-story.html

 

[rookzie]

9 hours ago, MLBrumby said:

Mayor Cooper should hire you, Rookzie, as a consultant for any transit he'd like to develop there. 

Thanks, MLBrum.  But since Mayor Cooper has picked Faye DiMassimo, who worked with Cobb County, Ga., I might not have a snowball's chance, if I tried.  Ya never know though....

Edited October 22, 2019 by rookzie

[rookzie]

On 10/21/2019 at 2:43 PM, nashvylle said:

NYC is banning cars on certain roads, and seeing success. Will not happen in Nashville, but perhaps in the distant future?

https://www.nydailynews.com/news/politics/ny-city-car-ban-34th-42nd-streets-14th-street-busway-corey-johnson-20191021-p6etls67endqfow5lwu35vr4rm-story.html

 

I had mentioned the closing of 14th Street Manhattan for the NYMTA M14 crosstown bus, when PaulChinetti posted on San Francisco's approval of a ban on cars along part of Market Street.

New York also is about to implement congestion pricing.

https://www.nydailynews.com/new-york/ny-mta-congestion-pricing-transcore-20191020-ylmhdoulqbc7biqsy3tde65gaq-story.html?fbclid=IwAR2l87TYDQ2_qXV684GCHjyr-hg90jiXGj-mp5MyIieCGsL1gFG37sL5Wr0

Edited October 23, 2019 by rookzie

[AronG]

17 hours ago, nashvylle said:

NYC is banning cars on certain roads, and seeing success. Will not happen in Nashville, but perhaps in the distant future?

https://www.nydailynews.com/news/politics/ny-city-car-ban-34th-42nd-streets-14th-street-busway-corey-johnson-20191021-p6etls67endqfow5lwu35vr4rm-story.html

Perhaps not, although if someone forced it through on lower Broadway I'd bet a million dollars it would be a beloved public space within a year.

What I would hope is that our city leaders can start to acknowledge that more investment in car infrastructure is an urban planning dead end. European cities really started tipping on this a few years ago, recognizing that dedicating 90% of public space to the noisiest, most dangerous, most polluting, and least efficient way of moving people around is a self-crippling mistake (Oslo, Amsterdam, London, Paris, Barcelona, etc.). North American cities have taken longer to figure this out, but now the dam is finally starting to break. Just in the last year or two we have King St in Toronto, the NYC 14th St Busway and the upcoming congestion charge, SF Market St...

Of course Nashville's in a very different place, but I think the recognition could start to percolate through, that the ultimate goal for our urbanized areas is to dedicate space and resources to pedestrian/bike/transit infrastructure, not traffic lanes and parking. The cities that figure this out sooner are going to be the most attractive places to live and work over the next decades, and are going to be the ones that sustain their growth and livability.

[PaulChinetti]

Nashville could do some baby steps and close Broadway from 5th to 1st for the weekend. Friday at 5pm. To Monday at 6am. 

[BnaBreaker]

I mean it seems like they already close down Broadway to make it pedestrians only a good five to ten times a year anyway, depending on how good the Predators are that season haha... seems to me that Broadway would be an ideal place for that type of a switch over.  To be honest, I really don't see the need for cars there anyway, at least at certain times.  If you're on Broadway on a Saturday night, a walk along Broadway is probably your destination and ultimate goal anyway, so what good does it do to bring cars into the equation?  Beale Street in Memphis has been this way for years and it seems to be working for them.  More room for pedestrians would be better for the businesses there too I would think since the pedestrians are your customers, not someone in a car on the street.  However, like Paul alluded to, I think it'd be better just to do the shut down after business hours on weekdays, or perhaps just weekend nights, as cutting off those through streets during the day could cause a disruption.  

Edited October 22, 2019 by BnaBreaker

[rookzie]

On 10/22/2019 at 8:49 AM, PaulChinetti said:

Nashville could do some baby steps and close Broadway from 5th to 1st for the weekend. Friday at 5pm. To Monday at 6am. 

 

On 10/22/2019 at 9:51 AM, BnaBreaker said:

I mean it seems like they already close down Broadway to make it pedestrians only a good five to ten times a year anyway, depending on how good the Predators are that season haha... seems to me that Broadway would be an ideal place for that type of a switch over.  To be honest, I really don't see the need for cars there anyway, at least at certain times.  If you're on Broadway on a Saturday night, a walk along Broadway is probably your destination and ultimate goal anyway, so what good does it do to bring cars into the equation?  Beale Street in Memphis has been this way for years and it seems to be working for them.  More room for pedestrians would be better for the businesses there too I would think since the pedestrians are your customers, not someone in a car on the street.  However, like Paul alluded to, I think it'd be better just to do the shut down after business hours on weekdays, or perhaps just weekend nights, as cutting off those through streets during the day could cause a disruption.  

With idJits now running amok and starting to play Demo-Derby these days on lower-B'way, it might even become imminently forced through.  They need to stop deferring to all those Butt-hurt merchants who b!tch about reversing or 2-waying 2nd Ave, and it needs to be done with the ultimate goal of public safety.

Only emergency vehicles and perhaps trams should be allowed east of 7th Ave and Broad, with provisions for delivery and utility vehicles.  Until then, pedestrians will continue to get taken out with Hit-n-runs ─ that's a law of nature.  They also need to finally allow a Walgreen's to be incorporated into the scape.  Not only have much larger cities added Walgreens to their CBDs within repurposed historic structures (e.g. Chicago's Wrigley Bldg. and DC's Union Station), but if Charleston SC can do it at the former Millennium Music Bld.  at King and Calhoun streets, then it's long overdue for Nashville to follow suit somewhere in the Broadway or SoBro sub-districts.  Nashville almost could use two Walgreen's in the tourist districts alone.

Edited October 26, 2019 by rookzie

[PillowTalk4]

I recently had a layover in Nice France after a Mediterranean cruise.  The hotel that I stayed in during my layover was less than a 1/4 mile from the airport.  Since I pretty much had an entire day to spend in Nice, I decided to go out an explore just a bit.  Right outside my hotel was a tram system that was really nice.  What I really liked about the way it was designed was how they chose to lay grass between the tracks in so many areas.  It made it appear as though the train was floating on a carpet of  grass.  It was so aesthetically pleasing to look at as well.  Instead of everything being concrete or asphalt, there was beautiful green grass.  I walked a good two miles away from hotel exploring, and noticed that the grass was used for almost the entire distance.  Even in areas where the stops were in a median in the middle of the street.  The median was still grass and the almost disappeared into the grass.  I couldn't help but think about how lovely it would be for Nashville to have a tram system designed the same way.  The trams  are sleek looking, quiet and appear to be very well maintained.  I took a video of it but the file is too large to post here.  But, I did find this link to a YouTube video that shows the train.  So, enjoy.  I'll work on decreasing the size of my personal video to see if I can post it.

Nice Tramway T2 Line

Edited October 23, 2019 by PillowTalk4