The Transportation and Mass Transit Megathread

[rolly]

@PillowTalk4 Great post and great suggestion. Wouldn't that be a great way to  get more green space in Nashville, along with the transit. 

 

[jmtunafish]

4 hours ago, PillowTalk4 said:

I recently had a layover in Nice France after a Mediterranean cruise.  The hotel that I stayed in during my layover was less than a 1/4 mile from the airport.  Since I pretty much had an entire day to spend in Nice, I decided to go out an explore just a bit.  Right outside my hotel was a tram system that was really nice.  What I really liked about the way it was designed was how they chose to lay grass between the tracks in so many areas.  It made it appear as though the train was floating on a carpet of  grass.  It was so aesthetically pleasing to look at as well.  Instead of everything being concrete or asphalt, there was beautiful green grass.  I walked a good two miles away from hotel exploring, and noticed that the grass was used for almost the entire distance.  Even in areas where the stops were in a median in the middle of the street.  The median was still grass and the almost disappeared into the grass.  I couldn't help but think about how lovely it would be for Nashville to have a tram system designed the same way.  The trams  are sleek looking, quiet and appear to be very well maintained.  I took a video of it but the file is too large to post here.  But, I did find this link to a YouTube video that shows the train.  So, enjoy.  I'll work on decreasing the size of my personal video to see if I can post it.

Nice Tramway T2 Line

I don't know if you realize how homesick you just made me.  Nice is such a great city.  Their public transport is superb, but the whole city, like most old European cities, is intensely walkable.  Even the very wide bike/scooter/pedestrian path along the Promenade des Anglais downtown goes all the way to the airport.  Every single parking garage in the city is underground, either under a building or under a park/plaza.  Well, except at the airport, but it's also one of the most beautifully situated airports in the world, certainly in Europe.  Nashville--indeed, most American cities--will never look like ancient, Old World metropolises like Nice, but I definitely think we can learn a lot about how they do things over there, particularly when it comes to moving people around and how to just enjoy life (une certaine joie de vivre).  I absolutely adore that city and really the entire Côte d'Azur region. 

[MLBrumby]

I hear it's very Nice. 

[Neigeville2]

I'd like to see Nashville set aside some narrow lanes for ROV's.

[PillowTalk4]

15 hours ago, jmtunafish said:

I don't know if you realize how homesick you just made me.  Nice is such a great city.  Their public transport is superb, but the whole city, like most old European cities, is intensely walkable.  Even the very wide bike/scooter/pedestrian path along the Promenade des Anglais downtown goes all the way to the airport.  Every single parking garage in the city is underground, either under a building or under a park/plaza.  Well, except at the airport, but it's also one of the most beautifully situated airports in the world, certainly in Europe.  Nashville--indeed, most American cities--will never look like ancient, Old World metropolises like Nice, but I definitely think we can learn a lot about how they do things over there, particularly when it comes to moving people around and how to just enjoy life (une certaine joie de vivre).  I absolutely adore that city and really the entire Côte d'Azur region. 

Sorry I made you homesick.  I wished we had spent more time in the area.  It seems like a lovely place.  But, walking along the Promenade des Anglais was a wonderful way to bring my vacation to an end and prepare for the flight to JFK the next day.  The promenade had to be the best public space I've ever walked along.  It is clean, feels safe has public restrooms along the way, we ate at Blue Beach, which was quite enjoyable and we simply just enjoyed the vibe of the promenade.  Having the open sea on one side and the city on the other, just made it spectacular.  I really liked that the promenade was wide enough to accommodate slow walkers, fast walkers, joggers, bikers, skaters, dog walkers, etc.  And, there was such diversity in the people as well.  We saw people of varying ages, singles, couples, families, straight, gay, and while most were white, we saw a fair number of blacks and people of other ethnic origins.    As we got closer to the airport area, we did cross over to the business side of the street and checked out a local grocery story that was really nice and we ended up walking through an area that seemed like a true working class area.  There were several small local dining spots that weren't lavish, but you could clearly see they were the local hangouts and probably were the true home style food is served an ethnic food favorites.

The Tram system again was simply amazing to me.  I hope that concept of combining grass along the tracks catches on in the US.  I'd love to see Nashville lead the way if possible.  I would love to see Nashville build a promenade along the east bank of the Cumberland that stretches from where I-24 goes over the Cumberland to where I-65 goes over the Cumberland.  That side of the river tends to be flat and would offer great views of downtown.

[archilove]

4 hours ago, PillowTalk4 said:

Sorry I made you homesick.  I wished we had spent more time in the area.  It seems like a lovely place.  But, walking along the Promenade des Anglais was a wonderful way to bring my vacation to an end and prepare for the flight to JFK the next day.  The promenade had to be the best public space I've ever walked along.  It is clean, feels safe has public restrooms along the way, we ate at Blue Beach, which was quite enjoyable and we simply just enjoyed the vibe of the promenade.  Having the open sea on one side and the city on the other, just made it spectacular.  I really liked that the promenade was wide enough to accommodate slow walkers, fast walkers, joggers, bikers, skaters, dog walkers, etc.  And, there was such diversity in the people as well.  We saw people of varying ages, singles, couples, families, straight, gay, and while most were white, we saw a fair number of blacks and people of other ethnic origins.    As we got closer to the airport area, we did cross over to the business side of the street and checked out a local grocery story that was really nice and we ended up walking through an area that seemed like a true working class area.  There were several small local dining spots that weren't lavish, but you could clearly see they were the local hangouts and probably were the true home style food is served an ethnic food favorites.

The Tram system again was simply amazing to me.  I hope that concept of combining grass along the tracks catches on in the US.  I'd love to see Nashville lead the way if possible.  I would love to see Nashville build a promenade along the east bank of the Cumberland that stretches from where I-24 goes over the Cumberland to where I-65 goes over the Cumberland.  That side of the river tends to be flat and would offer great views of downtown.

Have been to Nice a number of times, most recently with the whole family. Love it, especially the old quarter! We went to the Gare Rotierre each morning and took a bus along the incredibly scenic coastline, each time to a different little town, then we took a train to one-of-a-kind Venice, my favorite place in the world. I love waking up in the morning to the sound of church bells and supply barges. I've painted it many times.

Edited October 24, 2019 by archilove

[markhollin]

Gov. Lee and midstate leaders meet to in fresh effort to fix traffic woes.

More at The Tennessean here:

https://www.tennessean.com/story/news/2019/10/30/gov-bill-lee-talks-traffic-public-transportation-issues-greater-nashville-regional-council-event/4096906002/

[MLBrumby]

I don't think Nashville leaders realize this yet, but they truly are at a point where they could be an example to ALL growing cities for public transportation. First, I think the boom in population is much greater than they even know (I've tried to pin down figures to no avail). But second, they need to service multiple areas of the near-in neighborhoods. IMHO, when it comes to transit, Nashville is two cities: everything from 4-5 miles out of the core & everything beyond. Yes, it's obvious why that's the case (think Metro government passed in 1962), but whatever the solution developed may be, it will have to serve both constituencies. 

[markhollin]

NBJ has done an analysis of the various traffic studies put together for developments in/around downtown.  Once all of developments are complete, and fully populated, they could generate over 200,000 new daily vehicular trips within the downtown loop. This is nearly double what similar studies conducted 5 years ago had projected for 2024. In many cases, it is the final half mile getting to and from the central core that causes the longest delays. 

“By putting it all together, it clearly illustrates that we have a challenge we’re going to need to deal with,” said Steve Bland, CEO of WeGo Public Transit, when told of NBJ’s analysis. “To some extent you’re just kind of chasing yourself. … If we don’t get serious [about mass transit], then we’re going to get left behind, if we haven’t already.”

Janet Miller, CEO of Colliers International and a member of WeGo’s board, said officials must prioritize creating a comprehensive solution for downtown mobility. For Miller, that solution should include dedicated bus lanes; reconfiguring valet stand and loading zone locations; retiming traffic signals; and regulating transportainment options like pedal taverns.

“The answer isn’t to stop [investing in downtown]. The answer is to get a 21st century, grown-up, mature multimodal transit solution,” Miller said. “We all have families and lives, and if you’re going to spend two and half hours of it in traffic and not even get to the road that’s taking you home, it’s not worth it.”

More behind the NBJ paywall here:

https://www.bizjournals.com/nashville/news/2019/10/31/big-projects-bigger-commutes-mapping-our.html?iana=hpmvp_nsh_news_headline

 

[jkc2j]

Wonder what the chances are Mayor Cooper develops a comprehensive transit plan next year like he stated during the election.

[PaulChinetti]

8 minutes ago, jkc2j said:

Wonder what the chances are Mayor Cooper develops a comprehensive transit plan next year like he stated during the election.

Ha, haha, HAHAHAHAHA

I would say between 0 and 5%. Any comprehensive transit plan is going to have to start and end in downtown. And downtown isn't a neighborhood (sarcasm) and has also received enough investment from the city. So, unless he wildly flips on his campaign promise then I don't see how he's going to get the support from it from the outer districts, and those are the districts that voted for him and the districts that voted against the last transit plan.

Sooooo ATL 2.0 is what Nashville will become. Live close to where you work, or start working remote would be a good recommendation for anyone that live in Nashville.

/debbiedownerpost

[jkc2j]

51 minutes ago, PaulChinetti said:

Ha, haha, HAHAHAHAHA

I would say between 0 and 5%. Any comprehensive transit plan is going to have to start and end in downtown. And downtown isn't a neighborhood (sarcasm) and has also received enough investment from the city. So, unless he wildly flips on his campaign promise then I don't see how he's going to get the support from it from the outer districts, and those are the districts that voted for him and the districts that voted against the last transit plan.

Sooooo ATL 2.0 is what Nashville will become. Live close to where you work, or start working remote would be a good recommendation for anyone that live in Nashville.

/debbiedownerpost

Hey, at least you're honest with your thoughts lol. I do believe something will be done, just don't believe it'll be comprehensive enough to be a sufficient alternative. Guess when you have people who believe cars are the best solution there won't ever be other viable options.  It seems the districts that voted against the transit plan are the areas that need it the most.  Talk about shooting yourself in the foot, wonder if it's possible to desconsolidate Nashville back to it's original  boundaries to keep the suburbanites at bay lol. 

Edited November 1, 2019 by jkc2j

[Dale]

I still think Nashville should look to Columbus, OH for solutions. 

*runs away*

[grilled_cheese]

1 hour ago, PaulChinetti said:

Ha, haha, HAHAHAHAHA

I would say between 0 and 5%. Any comprehensive transit plan is going to have to start and end in downtown. And downtown isn't a neighborhood (sarcasm) and has also received enough investment from the city. So, unless he wildly flips on his campaign promise then I don't see how he's going to get the support from it from the outer districts, and those are the districts that voted for him and the districts that voted against the last transit plan.

Sooooo ATL 2.0 is what Nashville will become. Live close to where you work, or start working remote would be a good recommendation for anyone that live in Nashville.

/debbiedownerpost

Brah, what are you worried about?  The free market will solve this problem in no time!

[Tennessine]

3 hours ago, Dale said:

Columbus, OH

Who?

[dmillsphoto]

5 minutes ago, Tennessine said:

Who?

COLUMBUS, OHIO. 

 

Seriously, though. We have a couple hundred thousand more residents more than Nashville and a third the traffic problems. But, there's a huge difference - we have a fairly flat and logic grid system that expands north to south, I-270 is a full ring with intersections at 71, 70, and 670 running across, and 315 to the west side of town (basically, our 440). We also have smart-lanes on 670 now, which is an E-W stretch about 8 miles long that transepts the city. Public transit, however, is still really, really poor, though.

[Tennessine]

18 minutes ago, dmillsphoto said:

COLUMBUS, OHIO. 

 

Seriously, though. We have a couple hundred thousand more residents more than Nashville and a third the traffic problems. But, there's a huge difference - we have a fairly flat and logic grid system that expands north to south, I-270 is a full ring with intersections at 71, 70, and 670 running across, and 315 to the west side of town (basically, our 440). We also have smart-lanes on 670 now, which is an E-W stretch about 8 miles long that transepts the city. Public transit, however, is still really, really poor, though.

That's what I'm getting at- comparing Nashville's transportation idealism to that of Columbus may seem legitimate because they are similar in size, but as you mentioned, Columbus's topography is wildly different than Nashville's. In addition to that, Columbus is growing nicely, but as reasoned by the article Mark posted above, Nashville is growing much faster. Our roads certainly cannot handle the growth of the next decade on their own.

[smeagolsfree]

No comparison as Franklin County  Ohio is 1.3 million people in an area roughly the same size as Davidson and Columbus proper is approx.. 890,000 in 223 sq. miles making both much more dense than Nashville, therefore making a commute much less for the majority of people.

As Daniel said, the layout makes it a lot better suited to a grid pattern than Nashville ever could be, thus making it much easier to get around.

[Dale]

1 hour ago, Tennessine said:

Who?

A large city in the Midwest that’s growing faster than Nashville.

Columbus city proper has added over 100k since 2010 and Metro is now over 2.1 million.

It has an award-winning bus (and circulator) system which apparently operates on a shoestring. Worth a look at least.

[jkc2j]

12 minutes ago, Dale said:

A large city in the Midwest that’s growing faster than Nashville.

Not exactly. Columbus saw a metro growth rate of 1.14% with numerical growth of 24,066 as of 2018 vs Nashville at 1.57% at 30,377. Not a huge difference just putting the stats out there.

http://worldpopulationreview.com/us-cities/nashville-population/

http://worldpopulationreview.com/us-cities/columbus-population/

If you're talking just city popultion, then it's a different story.

Edited November 1, 2019 by jkc2j

[Dale]

10 minutes ago, jkc2j said:

Not exactly. Columbus saw a metro growth rate of 1.14% with numerical growth of 24,066 as of 2018 vs Nashville at 1.57% at 30,377. Not a huge difference just putting the stats out there.

http://worldpopulationreview.com/us-cities/nashville-population/

http://worldpopulationreview.com/us-cities/columbus-population/

If you're talking just city popultion, then it's a different story.

I’m pointing out Columbus metro is more populous and the city proper is growing at Sunbelt rate. Aaron Renn recently wrote on Nashville metro’s stagnant growth. I’ll see if I can dig it up.

[MidTenn1]

I could care less what Columbus Ohio's growth rate is because it has absolutely nothing to do with Nashville's transportation issues. Nashville is Nashville and has unique growth management issues that very few if any cities have.  It has a ridiculously large tourist population that clogs city streets with scooters, pedal taverns, tour busses, confused out of town automobile drivers, and people with the notion that they are entitled to park or load cars anywhere they please. Nashville might pick up a few ideas from various cities, but Nashville has to come up with it's own unique solutions.

P.S And....this is the all new city Nashville is adding to it's current skyline in the next few years. This is why it needs rapid transit and now. (Rising and serious proposals with a few omissions.)

[Tennessine]

2 hours ago, PHofKS said:

I could care less what Columbus Ohio's growth rate is because it has absolutely nothing to do with Nashville's transportation issues. Nashville is Nashville and has unique growth management issues that very few if any cities have.  It has a ridiculously large tourist population that clogs city streets with scooters, pedal taverns, tour busses, confused out of town automobile drivers, and people with the notion that they are entitled to park or load cars anywhere they please. Nashville might pick up a few ideas from various cities, but Nashville has to come up with it's own unique solutions.

P.S And....this is the all new city Nashville is adding to it's current skyline in the next few years. This is why it needs rapid transit and now. (Rising and serious proposals with a few omissions.)

Thanks, PHofKS. You said everything I didn't care to write. Columbus is a great city with rapid growth, but it has very little in common in Nashville. However, the anti-transit crowd will use any (however outlandish) example they can to fit their narrative.

[smeagolsfree]

Again, comparing any city to any other city ends up being a pointless exercise as each city has problems unique to itself. As Pete stated, Nashville has tons of tourist and there are few cities the size of Nashville with no mass transit if any that deals with the congestion that we deal with here. 

The only one I have been to that has limited mass transit and nasty traffic is Austin. There is a plan there but it will take time and I dont remember how extensive the plan is. Austin is also experiencing tremendous growth, even more than Nashville, and much of that urban growth is in downtown like Nashville.

So, to take a city like Columbus that has had 100 years to adjust to its growth is way off. I am probably one of the few people on this board that have driven Columbus, Austin, Denver, Indy, Philadelphia,  Pittsburgh, Cleveland, Boston, Chicago, OKC, Dallas, Atlanta, DC, St.Louis, KC, Charlotte, Raleigh, and others  to name the majority of the larger cities east of the Mississippi and a few west. All of this in the last 5 years and this is because I go there and study and pound the pavement. I do compare the shortcomings of Nashville when I am there and can tell you there are things I wish we had here and things I am glad we dont. I will say none of these cities are like any other city and you cant compare. You can take ideas from them but they may not work.

Nashville is woefully behind the curve in so many areas because the city really did not start booming until about 10 years ago. Many of these cities boomed long ago or had huge head starts. Sidewalks which is part of the transportation system is horrible even inside the core and if anyone  ever wants to take a walk with me, I will show you major screw ups on the part of Metro that is happening right now that should not be happening.

I'll shut up now. Already ranted long enough.

[Dale]

Whenever I cite Columbus as a city to learn from I get, “But, Nashville unique challenges.” As far as I can tell, Nashville’s unique challenges include: (1) taxpayers who say “Nope!” (2) and, as commonly acknowledged here, a bad bus system. 

Columbus has managed to build an award-winning bus system with comparatively little outlay.  Seems like it’s worth a look.