The Transportation and Mass Transit Megathread

[MLBrumby]

It is far along in becoming a critical bypass link between I-65 and I-40/I-24; however, it will not be completely interstate-standards. It will be four-lane all the way, and divided part of the way, but will be mostly a center-lane multiple access road south of Gallatin to Lebanon Road, which is probably the most congested stretch. One of the last stretches will be a bypass from a new exist south of the KY line around Portland. Of course, it should help with a lot of truck traffic until it too becomes too congested. But I believe TDOT wants to complete the full length before embarking on a full widening of I-65 from the KY line to Goodlettsville. It's all 8+ lanes from there to the notorious 'squeeze' through the Fern Street overpass. 

[Nathan_in_DC]

Just saw that there are plans to lower neighborhood speed limits to 25 throughout Nashville.

Some mixed feelings on this... Lower speed limits in built-up areas aren't a bad thing. Far from it, in fact. But they need to be judiciously and appropriately applied, otherwise people will ignore them when they think they can get away with it. Additionally, enforcement has to be evenly applied (perhaps cameras are a good thing here). The city needs to realize though that speed limits are just a part of an effective approach to improving traffic safety. Sidewalks and curbs (or, alternatively, combined streets where appropriate), smarter street and infrastructure designs, and a pedestrians-first approach to intersections where feasible are necessary to decrease pedestrian fatality rates.

[MidTenn1]

In June of 2018, I recommended on this forum restriping Division Street from the Music Row Roundabout to 12th Avenue in the Gulch from four lanes to three lanes and even two lanes across the I-40 overpass. I even made some sketches as shown below. I also recommended the addition of bike lanes. Well on my drive today I discovered exactly that has happened....

 

The project is obviously not finished. Another lift of asphalt may be in order with higher quality marking material being applied.

It makes more sense now with the scooter invasion. The city needs to make many more streets such as this one, a scooter artery and require scooters to use such scooter arteries to navigate around town.

[CenterHill]

2 hours ago, PHofKS said:

In June of 2018, I recommended on this forum restriping Division Street from the Music Row Roundabout to 12th Avenue in the Gulch from four lanes to three lanes and even two lanes across the I-40 overpass. I even made some sketches as shown below. I also recommended the addition of bike lanes. Well on my drive today I discovered exactly that has happened....

The project is obviously not finished. Another lift of asphalt may be in order with higher quality marking material being applied.

It makes more sense now with the scooter invasion. The city needs to make many more streets such as this one, a scooter artery and require scooters to use such scooter arteries to navigate around town.

Good!     I'm going to assume you inspired this to happen @PHofKS and thank you for it! 

This stretch of Division is one of the most pedestrian and cyclist/scooter unfriendly streets in the central core, and yet it's seen a big increase in pedestrian usage in the last few years.    The sidewalks are absurdly narrow and obstructed with numerous poles, signs, wires and TDOT vegetation.     There's literally not enough room for two pedestrians to pass each other without one stepping off the sidewalk or into the street.  Then add group of scooters blazing down the same sidewalk and it's maddening.      Glad to see these changes.     

[downtownresident]

4 minutes ago, CenterHill said:

Good!     I'm going to assume you inspired this to happen @PHofKS and thank you for it! 

This stretch of Division is one of the most pedestrian and cyclist/scooter unfriendly streets in the central core, and yet it's seen a big increase in pedestrian usage in the last few years.    The sidewalks are absurdly narrow and obstructed with numerous poles, signs, wires and TDOT vegetation.     There's literally not enough room for two pedestrians to pass each other without one stepping off the sidewalk or into the street.  Then add group of scooters blazing down the same sidewalk and it's maddening.      Glad to see these changes.     

Honestly all of Division past 12S toward its end at 21st, bar the roundabout, is a mess for pedestrians and cyclists. The road and sidewalks are so beat up, especially past the roundabout headed toward 21st. The city would do well to repair the road and bury the utilities(pipe dream, I know) once all of the construction is done. 

Edited November 19, 2019 by downtownresident

[Mike G]

YES! This area is terrible. I coach cross country at MLK, and we end up running here because there are not a lot of good options for running form the school, and the Gulch is something to look at and Music Row is fairly pedestrian friendly. This section is the worst. We're running on the 4" curb trying not to fall into traffic. Fortunately, it's the better kids that usually get this far on our shorter runs, so they are used to city running, but still makes be a bit nervous.

[smeagolsfree]

I did not know about the meeting they has last night until it was about to happen. I do now remember which council person it was but there is a new initiative to put sidewalks in neighborhoods again. This meeting was at the Lentz ctr. at 6 PM yesterday.

My gripes right now are this. 

Too many appeals. You can appeal through BZA, MDHA, and it based on hardship or this or that. My problem is that Metro makes these guys rip up a perfectly good sidewalk and replace it, Areas that are outside of the Urban services district like way out on Hwy. 12 are requiring sidewalk to nowhere. That is a perfect example of where they need to pay into the sidewalk fund. Only a moron will be walking the 10 miles between Nashville and Ashland City. Most people bike it.

There are newly built homes on Third Ave N that were built with no sidewalks that were needed to connect existing sidewalks, but further up where there were no side walks on that side of the road they made them build sidewalks. There is no rhyme or reason as to what Metro requires. It needs to be in black and white with absolutely no grey.

The Nations is a whole other animal and all you have to do to see it is drive around to see all of the mistakes Metro has made there. It is a total mess. Some setbacks further than others, some homes with sidewalks, some were made without sidewalks,  some probably didnt even pay into the fund. Now you are seeing the same thing in WEHO. If the developers are going to build anything, they should be required to put curbs and sidewalks in. Of course Metro has kicked the can down the road for 50 years as far as storm sewers which are part of the sidewalk issue. Metro water rates have been so low for so long, that they are now paying piper. Storm sewers are part of the water services and the politicians in the city have been afraid to raise taxes, water rates or do anything to appease the voters and now the poop has hit the fan. The bill is due.

I think someone needs to sue NES on behalf of the ADA and make them move the poles from the middle of sidewalks as well. NES has no rules to work by as they seem to get away with anything they want too.

This is a situation where lawyers, planners, engineers have all got their heads up their rears ends trying to appease developers and politicians without regard for the people and their needs. 

 

I will hush now.

[AronG]

12 hours ago, downtownresident said:

Honestly all of Division past 12S toward its end at 21st, bar the roundabout, is a mess for pedestrians and cyclists. The road and sidewalks are so beat up, especially past the roundabout headed toward 21st. The city would do well to repair the road and bury the utilities(pipe dream, I know) once all of the construction is done. 

Love the changes east of the roundabout. Totally agree that the western stretch needs just as much attention. Of course, it's more constrained on right-of-way. For my money, I think this is one of the best spots in the city to try a dutch-style woonerf. Give up on that "separated" bike lane, it's worthless. Let's just design the street to drastically slow down the cars and share the space with pedestrians/bikes/scooters.

[MLBrumby]

Ugh!!! Those $#!++y power lines!!  

There... now I feel better. 

I think a roundabout would be nice at the intersection of 19th & Division, but I think the construction of the restaurant there obviates that possibility. 

[AronG]

This is kinda fascinating. A 1,000 person "car-free" mixed-use development in Phoenix, built around a light rail stop. They're incorporating rideshare pickup spots around the perimeter, dedicated space for bikes/scooters, a small mini-lot for hourly zipcars, and lots of green space because they don't have to provide parking everywhere. Opens in Fall 2020.

https://medium.com/culdesac/introducing-culdesac-3fbfe7c4219c

[markhollin]

NBJ ranks the 50 top traffic congestion hot spots around Nashville:

https://www.bizjournals.com/nashville/news/2019/11/18/ranked-nashvilles-top-congestion-hot-spots.html?iana=hpmvp_nsh_news_headline

[markhollin]

Nashville ranked 25th most expensive city in U.S. (out of Top 50) for annual commuter costs at an average of $7,774 per commuter. Average commute time estimated at 29 minutes, 45 seconds.  

More at NBJ here:

https://www.bizjournals.com/nashville/news/2019/12/03/how-nashvilles-commuting-cost-compares-to-other.html?iana=hpmvp_nsh_news_headline

Full report here:
 

https://www.listwithclever.com/real-estate-blog/best-and-worst-metros-for-commuters/?utm_campaign=covered-commuting-v1

[CenterHill]

NY Times article published in the NBJ.     

Parking lots, once asphalt wasteland, become golden opportunities

https://www.bizjournals.com/nashville/news/2019/12/04/parking-lots-once-asphalt-wasteland-become-golden.html?iana=hpmvp_nsh_news_headline

Article making the point that there has been an uptick nationally in sales of surface parking lots to developers, primarily in urban markets.     Even though Nashville has seen a number of surface lots in the urban core converted to development, some of the trends cited in the article are not particularly strong here, like new bike infrastructure, carpooling and public transit.     

A couple snippets from the article: 

"Sales of parking lots may rise further, research shows. The parking industry is still generally strong nationwide, with revenue up 1% annually since 2014, according to a report released in May by the research firm IBISWorld. But the same report forecast a bumpy road ahead, with annual revenue growth shrinking to 0.2% through 2024 and a wave of consolidation hitting the industry.   The report cited factors for the change, including an increase in traffic congestion, which dissuades drivers; greater interest in carpooling and cycling, as well as a rise in bike infrastructure like new lanes; and a surge in the use of public transportation and ride-hailing services like Uber and Lyft.    “Ultimately, these trends are anticipated to gradually reduce the need for parking facilities moving forward,” the report said.

Wulf and other developers are not predicting the death of parking lots. Rather, the nature of parking in relation to development is changing, especially in cities. The Culver City project, for instance, is expected to have 1,500 below-ground spots.

And Harbinger plans to include a 500-spot garage as part of the complex it plans to build on its surface lot in Denver, O’Marah said.

“Even though Uber and Lyft and ride-sharing is useful and used all day long, when it comes Friday, people want to have their cars,” he said."

 

[Neigeville2]

 

Copenhagen, a city comparable in size to Nashville, has just completed the circle line of their Metro.  The system is entirely grade separated, self driving (no operators) and has frequent service 24 hours a day.  

 

[AronG]

 

11 hours ago, Neigeville2 said:

Copenhagen, a city comparable in size to Nashville, has just completed the circle line of their Metro.  The system is entirely grade separated, self driving (no operators) and has frequent service 24 hours a day.  

Found that oddly depressing. 9.6 miles (very similar to our inner interstate ring), 17 stations, new public squares, 24-hour service, fully automated so it's low cost to operate, peak frequency of *100 seconds* between trains. Took 8 years to build and cost $3.2 billion. The rest of the world is getting better and better at building vibrant cities that move people around without storing their 4,000 lb vehicles everywhere they go. We're getting better and better at building... these:

[rookzie]

That Copenhagen station shows the uses of Platform Edge Doors (PEDs), intended to protect passengers on platforms from falling into the paths of trains.  They are rare in North America, typically found mostly with airport people movers, and perform like fixed horizontal-elevator doors.  While Nashville is not by any measure alone as an automobile-centric quagmire, the dramatized comparison just brought back to the forefront by AronG and Neigeville2 with the photos posted above are a silent but stark reality check for me.  Now tangible prospects of any fixed-guideway (specifically rail-based) transit alternative for the city and the region, appear almost completely dashed in any real foreseeable future.

Not unlike other Southern cities, Nashville grew from the post-World War II surge in suburban growth, which shifted to higher dimension with the consolidation of the city-county.  Yet despite a boom that has been evident with a skyline of cranes and closed-off lanes, Nashville’s government is facing a $41.5 million budget shortfall and dwindling reserves.  A question about public trust emerged in 2018 with charges against then-Mayor Barry, particularly when the events heightened with public suspicions with the revelation of problems in the city’s balance sheet coincided with Barry’s early departure, not to say that issues of questionable practices had not been extant prior to Barry’s election.  I myself have not taken the effort to examine trends from the history of publicly available CAFR’s (Comprehensive Annual Financial Reports), for the city of Nashville.  These, along with audits, often can be used to identify points of inflection in economic and fiscal trends of an entity, be it an enterprise, a city, or a semi-autonomous school district.  Debt payments have consumed a growing proportion of the city’s budget.

To prevent Deficit Operation the administration plans to take only the necessary actions to accomplish the Primary Objectives for the current fiscal year (ending 6-30-2020).  Sadly, as has been revealed, partial impoundment is being undertaken of the Barnes Fund for affordable housing.  It has been stated by the current Metro Director of Finance that economic trends for the area nonetheless appear to be positive and sustainable for the foreseeable future ─ a timeline pattern initiated and bolstered by successive administrations since the early 1990s.  The state is demanding accountability from Metro, since it receives a bunch of money from the State.  Notwithstanding the shortfall, the Metro Nashville Airport Authority appears to be forging with momentum of its expansion plans and growing passenger traffic.   A plan to modernize water rates and to identify funding sources for teacher’s pay have become focal points toward transforming the bleed of red ink into indelible fiscal viability.
 
That Nashville’s needs have become urgent don’t need to be mentioned beyond current awareness. Violent crime rates remain stubbornly high, and those committed by youth and reported effectively have spiraled seemingly beyond the elastic limits of available resources, while occurring not just daily but almost hourly.  This mounting issue is not just a North Nashville or a South Nashville thing ─ not anymore.  Metro might need to start installing those flashing blue-light pole-mounted aerial cameras ─ some with LPR capability (license-plate reading), along alley entryways as well as the streets themselves ─ not just downtown and in “designated” high-crime zones.  Neighbors inevitably would complain of the flashing blue lights, claiming the devices would detract from the value of their properties, that they would keep the residents awake, and that it would compromise pivacy.  I'd opt for the MNPD remote surveillance ANYtime, as it would afford me at least a perceived sense of security.   Efficacy of addressing this starts with top-down leadership, as watch groups can't do it alone.  Again though, the common denominator is funding to keep up with demand.

As far as sidewalks are concerned, the magnitude of the issue almost would seem unresolvable, given the way Metro manages it with developers and contractors.  Smeags already has turned over the rocks to uncover the worms on that subject, highlighting the “in lieu” payment provision that often goes nowhere.  Thing is, in many cases sidewalks have to be incorporated and integrated with projects to install storm sewers to channel all that water run-off trapped on roadway pavement at curbside, as well as from all the massive development and infill undertaken to date, let alone any new to follow.  The city will have to build a fully piped storm water system, along with some treatment facilities to clean it before use or dumping into a waterway.   A piped system would mean tearing up streets and the fronts of lots and alleys, not to mention seizing of houses and property for some of the infrastructure.  In turn this will mean possible and probable relocation of sewer piping, electrical-, gas-, and communication utilities, any of which become disruptions with new storm piping.  Much of the original urban core had underground storm-water infrastructure installed, but as a whole, with consolidation, Metro Nashville went cheap and put in surface drainage.  Drainage improvements have to be made before sidewalks are installed, and again Metro has no funds to do that for the projected thousands of miles of new sidewalks, without mention of those in need of replacement or which are substandard.

In addition, as I have said at least once before, unless and until the city can pass a referendum on sales and other taxes allowed by legislation, hopefully it will re-evaluate the potential of a property-tax increase, along with restricted generosity in the assessment appeals, if it ever expects to realize any real increases in revenue beyond the fulfillment of nominal obligations.  Otherwise, any envisioned major capital improvements of infrastructure remain pipe-dreams at best.

So-o-o-o…, while the sky might not be falling with dire straits for Metro Nashville, so far it has not reached a point of financial “exigency”, as what occurred with the 2013 bankruptcy of Detroit ─ not even close.   But other foremost issues make an advanced high-capacity transit network appear even further down the road, beyond the horizon during this point in time.  Transit remains an unmet challenge, exacerbated significantly this past summer and fall with a dramatic reduction in services ─ a lamentable back-step adversely affecting not only the marginalized but also impacting all with a reduction in mobility barely sufficient if at all, in many cases.   Maybe it’s just “darkest before dawn” ─ I don’t know.

 

[smeagolsfree]

Kansas City to be first major US city to offer free mass transit.

https://archpaper.com/2019/12/kansas-city-first-major-us-city-free-public-transit/?trk_msg=HHOQNJ4FQJV4T0B7MKDE12NID4&trk_contact=JUPUCMSIAQN8VB46SJ8BF4LNKS&trk_sid=ST2P3URL3KKNL3F6SGLVV38Q9G&utm_source=listrak&utm_medium=email&utm_term=Kansas+City+will+be+the+first+major+U.S.+city+to+offer+free+public+transit&utm_campaign=Late+Edition%3a+Kansas+City+will+be+the+first+major+U.S.+city+to+offer+free+public+transit

[nashvylle]

4 hours ago, smeagolsfree said:

Kansas City to be first major US city to offer free mass transit.

https://archpaper.com/2019/12/kansas-city-first-major-us-city-free-public-transit/?trk_msg=HHOQNJ4FQJV4T0B7MKDE12NID4&trk_contact=JUPUCMSIAQN8VB46SJ8BF4LNKS&trk_sid=ST2P3URL3KKNL3F6SGLVV38Q9G&utm_source=listrak&utm_medium=email&utm_term=Kansas+City+will+be+the+first+major+U.S.+city+to+offer+free+public+transit&utm_campaign=Late+Edition%3a+Kansas+City+will+be+the+first+major+U.S.+city+to+offer+free+public+transit

I think if Nashville offered "free" (in reality, "free admission") to buses during rush hour for a year, we could at least adjust routes and times to most highly designated areas. 

[Mr_Bond]

On 11/18/2019 at 7:34 PM, PHofKS said:

In June of 2018, I recommended on this forum restriping Division Street from the Music Row Roundabout to 12th Avenue in the Gulch from four lanes to three lanes and even two lanes across the I-40 overpass. I even made some sketches as shown below. I also recommended the addition of bike lanes. Well on my drive today I discovered exactly that has happened....

 

The project is obviously not finished. Another lift of asphalt may be in order with higher quality marking material being applied.

It makes more sense now with the scooter invasion. The city needs to make many more streets such as this one, a scooter artery and require scooters to use such scooter arteries to navigate around town.

As a resident of The Gulch, I really like these changes.  The start at the Musica Roundabout and go to 8th Ave S.  Yesterday, they painted several crosswalks, stop lines, turning arrows, etc.  Thank you for making our neighborhood a better place to live, work and play!

[rookzie]

5 minutes ago, Mr_Bond said:

As a resident of The Gulch, I really like these changes.  The start at the Musica Roundabout and go to 8th Ave S.  Yesterday, they painted several crosswalks, stop lines, turning arrows, etc.  Thank you for making our neighborhood a better place to live, work and play!

I noticed that some two weeks ago, when I took Division from Musica to Ash St. on my way to dump off some donations to the Tennessee Central Ry. Museum.  The visibility of the roadway lines contrast well and definitely confer a better sense of "guidance" along the path.  I only drove it eastbound, but I can say that it does take away some of the frustration of being behind left-turners, particularly at 12th.

Now the real issue hasn't "surfaced" yet ─ maintaining those lines from weathering and tire-wear, so that I don't have to guess-drive during rainy nights.

[rookzie]

Many would argue that public transit should not be subsidized to the point of making it free for all, while many other do.  Mayor Barry had informally considered that possibility at least in a limited fashion for riders in areas like Edgehill.  I understand the benefits and drawbacks of both sides of the issue.  The mindset typically has been to pay to buy up property and pave more real estate for more lanes of traffic than to subsidize a new bus route or rail line, while others would favor the bus or rail.   Then too that’s the reasons we have elections to decide whether to fund transit and/or highway projects, even though the democratic process often becomes tainted with misinformation or a lack of clarity. 

Starting sometime in 2020, the nation of Luxembourg is set to become the first country in the world to make all its public transport free. Luxembourg City has incurred some of the worst traffic congestion in the world.   Of course, Luxembourg cannot be justly compared to the U.S. in size, political emphasis, and many other factors, but it does serve as a proving ground for good or bad.  The fare policy will apply to both local service and to cross-border commuters.  This simply is not palpable across the board in North America.

Some agencies might actually find providing free service to be more efficient than all the hassles of collecting fares from their riders, and I am aware of agencies that have done that.  That had been one of the arguments during the Dean administration for instituting the Downtown Free Ride circulators, Routes Nº 60 and 61.  Often times the transit agencies don’t advertise that when they look to increase funding. It also greatly depends on the area being served.  Fare-box revenue is already a small portion of the money that funds most transit system anyway, and for healthy agencies such as KCATA, going 100% subsidized isn't that big of a shift.  One factor holding many cities back from offering free transit is their reliance on fare-box recovery, which can make up a sizable chunk of some transit agencies’ operating budgets, such as that of Wego Transit (Nashville MTA), which given the state of affairs during the last few decades has been strapped for cash, desperately needed for operations and maintenance.

It's an intriguing idea, but just as with any intention it would have side effects, since people tend to value things they pay for more.  The biggest detriment to “free” rides is setting up limitations where free rides end. In many cases, agencies with even limited no-fare service have had to find deterrents to the homeless camping out all day and even setting up housekeeping on transit buses and trains, particularly in cold or inclement weather.  The collection of fares to board and timed transfers to continue limited riding tends to discourage that.   A primary benefit addresses equity concerns by making transit free for seniors, students, people with disabilities, and other groups that are transit-dependent (captive riders), although most major transit systems offer programs that subsidize fares for low-income riders.  An additional benefit of free-for-all is that it would (hopefully) tend to “induce” ridership from choice riders as well as the income-poor.

Those purporting the need for “civil liberties” say they are dead against more taxes to subsidize transit, so as the population increases, the need for more highways follows suit, let alone for conveying all those who cannot afford to live “reasonably” close to the workplace.  Free rides system-wide aren’t for every agency, but they can work for some.  While not realized by most patrons or even the public at large in Nashville, the loss of free rides along the Jefferson Street corridor in 2018, combined with route Nº60 (downtown circulator) and which had been the 8^th more ridden route system-wide at the time, represented a significant set-back for those who needed the free service the most ─ the center-most core of North Nashville.   This is why we see no more of those "Loud Green" buses floating around.   But free-for-all is not substitute for poor service, and opponents would argue that fare-collections help offset the cost of improving service frequency and coverage.  Just saying.

https://www.archdaily.com/908252/luxembourg-becomes-first-country-to-make-all-public-transit-free?fbclid=IwAR1QOYvy2c8ZHmpzN99xJWPA5nqMjtmi8Wijgo0WVgFS9zGicCSk2mqWpD4

[Dale]

Speaking of power lines, Moscow has the most attractive public realm I’ve ever seen, pages of delicious stuff ...

https://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=2047505

[BnaBreaker]

11 hours ago, Dale said:

Speaking of power lines, Moscow has the most attractive public realm I’ve ever seen, pages of delicious stuff ...

https://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=2047505

Beautiful stuff indeed... makes me want to visit!  I've heard that over the past ten years Moscow city has really invested heavily into making it's public realm more vibrant and livable, and it definitely shows... that was never really a priority during the Communist era I suppose.

[Dale]

1 hour ago, BnaBreaker said:

Beautiful stuff indeed... makes me want to visit!  I've heard that over the past ten years Moscow city has really invested heavily into making it's public realm more vibrant and livable, and it definitely shows... that was never really a priority during the Communist era I suppose.

I know I was stunned. The scale of transformation is almost incomprehensible. 

[Rockatansky]

On 11/14/2019 at 6:15 PM, KJHburg said:

Start with one line and grow it

Tried that with the AMP and it got killed.

Also, as I have said time and time again, 840N is dead. It ain't happening.

We need high speed, high capacity transit with frequent service operating in dedicated ROW.

On 11/14/2019 at 6:15 PM, KJHburg said:

tolls

Are illegal at the state level.

On 11/14/2019 at 6:15 PM, KJHburg said:

Ramp metering

Great idea. We should implement it a soon as possible.