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I think it will be a gamble for any first term mayor to throw out an ambitious plan at first, but it will have to be up to the voters what ever happens.

When the economy comes back with a vengence along with the tourist, traffic will be a nightmare and people are fickle and will be demanding a fix again.

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Just now, smeagolsfree said:

I think it will be a gamble for any first term mayor to throw out an ambitious plan at first, but it will have to be up to the voters what ever happens.

When the economy comes back with a vengence along with the tourist, traffic will be a nightmare and people are fickle and will be demanding a fix again.

Someone at a high level in state government needs to propose a bill to allow TDOT to take on some debt to help municipalities with their optional plans to develop transportation infrastructure. It can be targeted or restricted for certain uses and could be done with virtually no risk to TN taxpayers. There's no reason TDOT should be pay-as-you-go only.  I appreciate the fiscal responsibility, but that's just poor management. 

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On 12/10/2020 at 2:55 PM, Nicholson said:

This Tennessean headline is very misleading, even though the article itself seems pretty on point. Nowhere in the article does it describe Councilmembers "gutting" the transportation plan. It's been remedied somewhat by an edited headline - now when you click the link, the word "Gutted" has been replaced with with "Slammed."

I guess a headline reading "Council Voices Legitimate Concerns" doesn't pack much of a punch.

It's true the plan does rely heavily on "opportunistic finding" such as grants, but with the city's budget issues being what they are, the immediate options seem pretty limited. Nashville is one of the only metroplitan areas without dedicated fuding for transit. Whenever we finally get around to approving that, it will help the city's annual budget process, because transit will not be competing with schools, police, etc for funding.

In the current Transportation Plan, there is a proposal to seek dedicated funding for transit some time between 2023 and 2026. This is on a timeline image on page 157. By the time 2023 rolls around, and there's another movement towards dedicated fiunding, we will hopefully have the pandemic in the rearview mirror, and we'll have an even better idea of what the city needs transportation-wise.

In the meantime, the Metro Council should have time to continue contributing feedback to make the plan better, and it looks like that is becoming the case. The best response to the plan that I've seen is from Walk/Bike Nashville, so here's a link to that:

https://www.walkbikenashville.org/mayor_cooper_s_transportation_plan

A few highlights:

  1. Equity and Meaningful Community Engagement. Equity should be embedded in the prioritization and selection of projects in a way that is transparent to everyone. As the plan is written now, we have concerns about how and if equity will be central to the selection and implementation of projects. In its current iteration, the plan is so broad most community members cannot give meaningful feedback that is specific to their experiences. 
  2. Departmental Staffing Levels. Staffing levels at departments responsible for transportation, especially at Metro Public Works and Metro Planning, are at all time low.
  3. Goals with Measurable Outcomes, Timelines and Funding. 
    While we applaud the broad goals included in the plan; the plan lacks specific measurable outcomes that will help us understand progress toward those goals. Without a funding plan with identified dedicated revenue sources, we have real doubts about how elements of this plan will ever move forward.

 

 

4 hours ago, Rockatansky said:

I'd rather we spent the money on transit.

 

3 hours ago, smeagolsfree said:

Me too, however I don't think it will happen in my lifetime now. Nashville will continue to fall behind other cities as far as mass transit goes because we do not and have not had an HONORABLE  mayor with any sense and courage to come up with a plan that is both good and phased in.

The current may wants to put a band-aide on a severed limb and the previous mayor wanted to throw all the eggs into a glass basket at one time and drop from a 30 story building to see if it would break. The mayor before that tried to sneak a plan through with out any consultation or public input. A behind the doors plan so to speak.

Metro has spent so much money on plans and studies they could have funded the first leg of a rail system somewhere,

My guess as I have said before is Cooper is a one term mayor as folks are really upset about the tax increase and still a lack of transparency in spending. He was still trying to spend money  they didnt have on the park in Bells Bend.

 

Meanwhile.....
Even during COVID-19 as a "period" of mass deferments, Kansas City forges on with yet more federal grant funding to augment its current but modest streetcar line.  This time just a few days ago, KCMO was awarded a huge $174 M grant, on top of what it received from the feds last September and August ─ $50.8 M and $14.2 M respectively.

After wrangling dangling on threads for a start-up funding dating from 2012, to an initial launch in 2017, the city has judiciously demonstrated and created a case for itself to successfully compete for the national awards, which, with secured matching funding, will allow it to now fully fund a federally approved compound expansion.  It has taken steps, just as KC learned early on the hard way, rather than to push for quantum leap with a single ambitious proposal.  It has taken special taxing districts, and it has taken the passing of a timely posed referendum to the voters, a month after the failure of the Nashville referendum of May 2018.   But as I've said at least twice in the 7+ years I've been on this blog, it takes something to get something.  KC already had something up and running by then, even if only barely.

"It-City" Nashville just doesn't seem to have IT yet ─ instead the "studies" and town meetings being like one big vicious circle of Ground Hog Day.

image.png.101df875c591bea5ecc5e737b445e217.png  FTA locks in $174M grant for KC streetcar extension

(I don't believe this article is behind a paywall)

 

 

 

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A key thing that Nashville hasn't quite understood or valued is that a city must have a solid plan that's backed by its citizenry for such federal grants to be awarded to them. Several of Nashville's peer cities as far back as 20 years ago knew this.  Nashville's leadership is pathetic, and despite that the city has thrived. Imagine what would happen with competent and hard-working leadership (mayor, administration, a lean council not bent on internal bickering, etc.)... you could maybe take a little slice of what Austin has. I think there are still too many civic leaders of Nashville who see their city's peers as Memphis, Louisville, Birmingham, and other third tier cities.  If I hear another 'leader' say "we don't want to be another Atlanta" again I'll simply laugh and tell them you're not even in the ballpark.  Nashville continues to boom with no coordinated and concentrated effort to make it a better place. The mayor is a small-time buffoon who's riding the coattails of his do-nothing brother in Congress. The Metro council is a bloated bunch of clowns focused only on in-fighting between one district and another. Yet, Nashville booms!  What could it be if you had competent leadership?  Someone from the world of business and smart management. You got a glimpse of that with Mayor Bredesen.  Someone who can bat down the back biting from Metro Council and rise above it for the good of the whole city?  This is how cities with tremendous potential just glide to mediocrity.  

Edited by MLBrumby
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19 hours ago, MLBrumby said:

A key thing that Nashville hasn't quite understood or valued is that a city must have a solid plan that's backed by its citizenry for such federal grants to be awarded to them. Several of Nashville's peer cities as far back as 20 years ago knew this.  Nashville's leadership is pathetic, and despite that the city has thrived. Imagine what would happen with competent and hard-working leadership (mayor, administration, a lean council not bent on internal bickering, etc.)... you could maybe take a little slice of what Austin has. I think there are still too many civic leaders of Nashville who see their city's peers as Memphis, Louisville, Birmingham, and other third tier cities.  If I hear another 'leader' say "we don't want to be another Atlanta" again I'll simply laugh and tell them you're not even in the ballpark.  Nashville continues to boom with no coordinated and concentrated effort to make it a better place. The mayor is a small-time buffoon who's riding the coattails of his do-nothing brother in Congress. The Metro council is a bloated bunch of clowns focused only on in-fighting between one district and another. Yet, Nashville booms!  What could it be if you had competent leadership?  Someone from the world of business and smart management. You got a glimpse of that with Mayor Bredesen.  Someone who can bat down the back biting from Metro Council and rise above it for the good of the whole city?  This is how cities with tremendous potential just glide to mediocrity.  

I rarely let myself become ensnared in Op-Eds, which what I consider your comment, MLBrumly.  I'm just a benign Dust Devil, afraid of turning into a full-fledged Twister.

In ruminating thoughts and observations of  the past 28 years since my return to the area after a long absence, your commentary says for me (and perhaps for others) exactly what I could not express in words for my own feelings and frustrations.  In this case, I would give you the Award of the Week :good:, but I have nothing to confer or present to you, except maybe a few "polished apples".  The Smeags (smeagolsfree) also comes close to doing that a lot, but then too he's got Carte Blanche, so to speak.

 

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First reading means nothing!

 

The substantial portion of this plan has nothing to do with helping to decrease traffic and solving the problems. The plan also ignores a way to quickly move people in and out of the downtown area.

As most of you know, the main issues are traffic coming in from out of county or the outlying portions of the county. The plan below does not address any of this and a lot of the spending should be allocated to other departments and not a mass transit plan. Sidewalks, greenways, infrastructure should be covered under public works and Metro Parks. I do think a lot of this is smoke and mirrors as one council member called it.

The West End study is a no brainer, you just take the parking out and a lot of that study was done when they were planning for the AMP under the Dean administration.

Areas in yellow below show items that should not even be included in this plan.

Again it is a bus heavy system and buses get stuck in traffic unless there are dedicated lanes, aka BRT or something we do not have and that is a true BRT line. What Metro calls BRT is in name only and is a joke.

 

Plan priorities (from the Tennessean)

The proposal prioritizes these upgrades throughout Davidson County:

  • $75 million for long-awaited traffic-calming measures, such as speed humps, speed cameras, narrowed traffic lanes, bike paths, and pedestrian walkways. 

  • $15 million for new technology to upgrade signals to streamline traffic. 

  • $35 million for seven miles of new bike paths each year and expanded greenways.

  • $7 million to study new technologies along the Martin Luther King Jr. Boulevard and Charlotte Avenue corridor downtown. Those will include environmentally friendly infrastructure, and "smart" signals, crosswalks and parking systems. 

  • $6 million to make roadway improvements to better accommodate high-capacity transit on West End Avenue. The work will be done in partnership with Vanderbilt University, which accounts for the largest single source of transit ridership in the region. 

  • $117 million for ongoing infrastructure improvements in areas hit hardest by the March 3 tornado, including North and East Nashville. 

  • A $175 million connector between the east and west sides of North Nashville along Jefferson Street, which are divided by interstates 65 and 40.

  • $200 million for new street paving, sidewalk repairs and bridge improvements. 

  • $200 million to lay and repair about 75 miles of sidewalks.

  • $826 million for a variety of public transit upgrades. Those include 11 new transit centers, expanded and more rapid bus routes, dozens of new bus shelters, and rapid transit on Murfreesboro and Clarksville pikes. 

 

Just now, smeagolsfree said:

Passing on First reading means nothing!

 

The substantial portion of this plan has nothing to do with helping to decrease traffic and solving the problems. The plan also ignores a way to quickly move people in and out of the downtown area.

As most of you know, the main issues are traffic coming in from out of county or the outlying portions of the county. The plan below does not address any of this and a lot of the spending should be allocated to other departments and not a mass transit plan. Sidewalks, greenways, infrastructure should be covered under public works and Metro Parks. I do think a lot of this is smoke and mirrors as one council member called it.

The West End study is a no brainer, you just take the parking out and a lot of that study was done when they were planning for the AMP under the Dean administration.

Areas in yellow below show items that should not even be included in this plan.

Again it is a bus heavy system and buses get stuck in traffic unless there are dedicated lanes, aka BRT or something we do not have and that is a true BRT line. What Metro calls BRT is in name only and is a joke.

 

Plan priorities (from the Tennessean)

The proposal prioritizes these upgrades throughout Davidson County:

  • $75 million for long-awaited traffic-calming measures, such as speed humps, speed cameras, narrowed traffic lanes, bike paths, and pedestrian walkways. 

  • $15 million for new technology to upgrade signals to streamline traffic. 

  • $35 million for seven miles of new bike paths each year and expanded greenways.

  • $7 million to study new technologies along the Martin Luther King Jr. Boulevard and Charlotte Avenue corridor downtown. Those will include environmentally friendly infrastructure, and "smart" signals, crosswalks and parking systems. 

  • $6 million to make roadway improvements to better accommodate high-capacity transit on West End Avenue. The work will be done in partnership with Vanderbilt University, which accounts for the largest single source of transit ridership in the region. 

  • $117 million for ongoing infrastructure improvements in areas hit hardest by the March 3 tornado, including North and East Nashville. 

  • A $175 million connector between the east and west sides of North Nashville along Jefferson Street, which are divided by interstates 65 and 40.

  • $200 million for new street paving, sidewalk repairs and bridge improvements. 

  • $200 million to lay and repair about 75 miles of sidewalks.

  • $826 million for a variety of public transit upgrades. Those include 11 new transit centers, expanded and more rapid bus routes, dozens of new bus shelters, and rapid transit on Murfreesboro and Clarksville pikes. 

 

 

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We have lots of knowledgeable folks here on the subject of transit. So I'd like to know if so-called "smart" technology is a lot of BS or not. It seems that the term is applied so much and so vaguely as a solution that it never gets explained (at least publicly) as to what it is and how it works. And are projects like that ever audited?  What's the threshold of a project's cost over which it's required to have an audit?  After years of reading about "smart" signals/systems/management etc., it all sounds like a bunch of fluff to me know. But is that because they actually do work, and they just can't keep up with demand?  And have cities explored the use of streets for buses only?  I realize that's been done for streetcars/lrt, but why not look into connecting so many of Nashville's broken street grid (dead-ends & fragments, etc.) for exclusive use of buses, bikes and pedestrian traffic?  

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Council supports Cooper transit plan in 33-5 vote. It is a scaled-back list of potential projects that does not include dedicated funding but is instead dependent on state and federal grants.

More at The Nashville Post here:

https://www.nashvillepost.com/politics/metro-government/article/21145031/council-supports-cooper-transit-plan

And at NBJ here:

https://www.bizjournals.com/nashville/news/2020/12/16/mayor-john-coopers-transit-plan-approved.html?cx_testId=40&cx_testVariant=cx_34&cx_artPos=0#cxrecs_s

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According to my understanding of the Tennessean article this plan isn't meant to be the final interation but a basis to get additional funding allocated for improved infrastructure and transit from the federal government. Apparently in order to qualify for funding a transportation plan has to already be in place. 

The additonal funds can then be used to expand the system as necessary. 

Per Tennessean:

"Mayor John Cooper said a quick approval was needed to ensure the city is competitive for new federal grant funding expected from the Biden administration next year."

"We need a blueprint now, so we can unlock additional state and federal funds to pay for important transportation projects," Cooper said in a letter to The Tennessean. "As the Biden administration telegraphs they’ll pour more infrastructure funding into America’s communities, money will be available to cities and regions – if they have an adopted plan and are ready to apply."

https://www.tennessean.com/story/news/2020/12/16/nashville-transportation-plan-mayor-john-cooper-metro-council-approval/3916274001/

Edited by jkc2j
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Again, a first reading is not the true measure of support in the Council. Most everything passes on first reading if it is not deferred and that was tried and failed. My guess is that  a number of Council Members want to get this out to a public debate sooner rather than later. It is a weak plan and only half of the amount truly goes to any kind of mass transit. Nashville cannot be a bus heavy system. IT WILL NOT work! You can put wings on a pig and say its a flying pig, but its still not going to take off and fly.

Cooper wants to have a legacy, but this is not it. With all of the budget constraints over the past two years and no funding plan in place, this is going to get serious push back and cost him what little political capital he has left. Nashville is going to have to work with the State in order to come up with a solution. Cooper is already in deep doo doo with Covid shut downs and the tax increase and will be digging a deeper hole here.

I really do not see Council having the courage to pass it. I may be wrong, but that is just a guess after all of the budget woes over the past year.

There are 2 and a half years left in his term, so we will see what happens, but my guess is the next mayor will not be a political insider right now and will come from the business community with a lot of money  to spend.

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The problem again in Nashville is they are going to have to get state cooperation as the ding dongs on the hill have passed a number of measures to keep Nashville from taking away lanes for buses only on state routes thanks to Beaman and his buds.

US 70 needs to be rerouted away from West End and Lower Broad some how. Again they will have the same issue on all of the state routes, Dickerson(41), Gallatin(31E), 8th/Franklin Rd.(31a),Murfreesboro Pike (41) Nolensville Rd (41A), Clarksville Pike (41A) West End and Hermitage/ Lebanon Rd US70.

Every Main road into and out of The core is a state or US hwy and controled by the state, so Metro can't sneeze on it unless they have permission. I am sure there are a few exceptions. One other thing I did not know is that the State has a 35' height restriction on West End past 440. Scenic By way. Passed after the Rokeby got built.

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I had a previous comment from a week ago that might have been buried in another message with it. 

UT School of Architecture has been asked by CSX to study a future reuse/redevelopment of the Radnor Yards. They have bought land west/southwest of Nashville where they will build a larger intermodal railyard that will be closer to I-840. So I hope some city leaders would recognize this opportunity to lease the railroads that may be unused after their move. I don't know a lot of details but this would be a great topic for someone at NCP to explore. 

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Has there been any additional information about the addition of the 11 transit centers? I've always thought one of Nashville's biggest issues with bus routes is that they all return to downtown to restart their routes. It would make neighborhood routes much easier if they could just return to a Station in the middle of the neighborhood like the Bellevue Mall area or the Bobby's dairy dip area of charlotte pike. This way the buses that go downtown only have to make it to that central spot and then shorter routes connect you to smaller non arterial streets. Ideally the connectors to downtown would be trains but this would be a solid start. 

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45 minutes ago, Thrill said:

Has there been any additional information about the addition of the 11 transit centers? I've always thought one of Nashville's biggest issues with bus routes is that they all return to downtown to restart their routes. It would make neighborhood routes much easier if they could just return to a Station in the middle of the neighborhood like the Bellevue Mall area or the Bobby's dairy dip area of charlotte pike. This way the buses that go downtown only have to make it to that central spot and then shorter routes connect you to smaller non arterial streets. Ideally the connectors to downtown would be trains but this would be a solid start. 

Welcome to the Forum, Thrill.  : )

I don't believe the satellite Transit Centers are in the current proposal.  

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8 hours ago, smeagolsfree said:

"...Nashville cannot be a bus heavy system. IT WILL NOT work! You can put wings on a pig and say its a flying pig, but its still not going to take off and fly."

Maybe caking some Revlon gloss on the front will make it go through the air faster...-=:tw_lol:

image.png.766d1046c049f3bbb173ed27c7a36fe0.png

Edited by rookzie
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I think they are planning the bus transit centers in outlying areas and doing some cross town routes. That was in one of the original plans I remember reading about. I am unsure how successful they will be as the ridership will be low.

Bus transit is pretty much a waist of money in a city with the traffic woes that Nashville has to move a large number of people. A true BRT or LRT system is what is needed not to mention a regional plan. Metro doing something by itself is the wrong way to go. The Mayor should have been in contact with the state and surrounding mayors to come up with a better plan that works.

The core has to be fixed first, no the other way around.

Welcome to the froum Thrill!

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There is a regional planning 'committee' (not sure what its actual legal standing is). They're fairly ineffective as far as planning goes, but they do prioritize transportation projects. Metro Planning Organization (MPO) or I think that's what they used to call themselves... overall, pretty toothless because it appears to rely heavily on 'cooperation'.  https://www.gnrc.org/170/Transportation-and-Mobility   AFAIK, they get very little media coverage. 

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