The Transportation and Mass Transit Megathread

[Luvemtall]

5 hours ago, MagicPotato said:

I always wondered why didn't  Wilson county  grow nearly as much as Williamson, Montgomery, and Rutherford county.  The land is pretty flat,  close distance from Nashville ,  and the Music City Star is located there.  I don't know but if I had a real estate business that area would be a prime location. Wouldn't it just be simple as to build out the areas near the train stations? 

Because you got a bunch of old farmers running the county. They don’t like change or growth, I’ve moved here in 2006 and I could already tell you about 10 big projects that were said to completely change Lebanon into a Cool Springs type city. And nothing ever got pass planning.

[smeagolsfree]

Once those Jed Clampett's start seeing how much money they can get for raising buildings instead of cows & beans they may change their crop.

 

Now don't get me wrong, I am not in favor of widespread suburban growth but there can be controlled urban growth in certain areas as long as it is dense. We do need farms!

[PruneTracy]

Don't know how interested you guys are in this but there's a new podcast that details the history of Tennessee's highway system.

https://www.highwaysee.com/

[BnaBreaker]

Wow, that's an extremely niche podcast!

[markhollin]

Austin voters rejected a $1 billion mass transit plan in 2014 by a 57%-43% margin.  They turned around and voted for a $7 billion package last year at 58%-42%. 

Wade Cooper, the Board Chairman for Austin's Regional Tranist Authority says this:

"The most important thing is we saw a huge influx in the last several years of 20- to 29-year-old voters," Cooper said. "We saw that and it was something we were scurrying to be able to take advantage of. That probably turned out to be as important as anything."

Nashville would appear to have a lot of those voters, annually ranking in various studies as a top destination for millennials. That trend has continued and even accelerated during the Covid-19 pandemic, as more people and businesses have sought to flee high-cost, dense major metros.

In a loose parallel to Cooper's insight, the area's population of 22- to 36-year-olds jumped 14.4% between 2013 and 2020, according to an analysis by commercial real estate brokerage firm CBRE Group Inc. (NYSE: CBRE). That's a net gain of 25,829 people in that age range.

The plan that Austin voters approved features two major rail lines and a tunnel under downtown (a subterranean passage that Nashville's 2018 plan also included). Austin's plan expands rapid bus service with 42 new miles of routes and includes $300 million for "anti-displacement housing strategies."

"Our takeaway was our plan needed to be bigger and bolder. It needed to be viewed as something that would really move the needle," Cooper said. "We wondered whether that [tunnel] would capture people's imagination or repel them. I think people came to the conclusion that this is finally something that will solve our traffic problems, or would at least make a meaningful dent in it."

More at NBJ here:

https://www.bizjournals.com/nashville/news/2021/03/25/austin-transit-nashville-takeaways.html

Some renderings of Austin's approved plan:
 

[MLBrumby]

The problem with Nashville as I see it from a distance is there is NO leadership on this issue, even now. And there doesn't appear to be anyone willing to take that role. Maybe you folks can enlighten me if I'm wrong.  There will be an infrastructure bill coming this year, and it's going to open the money spigot. Looking at the priorities for the Biden administration, I've heard they will commit a lot of it toward mass transit. It's very likely that any city without a transit plan will be left out in the cold.  Nashville has been a day late and many dollars short on any unified transit plan in the past, and it's likely to happen again. Federal subsidies would go a long way in making the public more willing to support and vote for it.  

[PaulChinetti]

Dust off the Mayor Berry plan, rebrand  recalculate everything, done and done. (dusts off hands).

My memory is fuzzy on it but it's pretty similar to this Austin plan isn't it?

[Luvemtall]

15 minutes ago, PaulChinetti said:

Dust off the Mayor Berry plan, rebrand  recalculate everything, done and done. (dusts off hands).

My memory is fuzzy on it but it's pretty similar to this Austin plan isn't it?

It’s almost like Austin took Mayor Berry’s plan and tweaked it a little and BOOM !!! There it is!

[markhollin]

The Chamber of Commerce is looking at 2024 for the next attempted referendum for a mass transit expansion. Will apparently echo a lot of the marketing techniques that Austin used to sway the pendulum back in favor.

More at NBJ here:

https://www.bizjournals.com/nashville/news/2021/03/25/nashville-chamber-transit-referendum-strategy.html

[PruneTracy]

2 hours ago, markhollin said:

"The most important thing is we saw a huge influx in the last several years of 20- to 29-year-old voters," Cooper said. "We saw that and it was something we were scurrying to be able to take advantage of. That probably turned out to be as important as anything."

It's a little worrisome that Austin's transit authority seems more concerned with finding the right demographic to vote for their plan than whether their plan serves the public.

[PaulChinetti]

That's really all any voting is. Appeal to the demographic that will actually come out and vote.

 

 

[Nicholson]

The Transit Alliance of Middle Tennessee is hosting an online panel discussion about Austin's successful referendum.

Its on Tuesday, March 30, 12:00 PM – 1:00 PM 

Preview of the event: http://thetransitalliance.org/austin-transit-referendum-panel/

Register here: https://us02web.zoom.us/webinar/register/WN_Evtst1uZQ7yqDUH75f9d4Q

 

[rjgo]

 

 

http://media.amtrak.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/03/Amtrak-Connects-Us-Fact-Sheet-for-Statement.pdf

[MidTenn1]

I wonder if the Nashville-Chattanooga line will follow the existing rail line through the Cowan Tunnel (2,200ft). It will be a slow ride up the mountain.

[MLBrumby]

Cincy-Louisville-Nashville anyone?  Um, that's a catchment of about 5 million!  Does Nashville have any representative in Congress?  What's his name... Cooper, or something? 

[Binbin98]

I can finally go from Miami to Nashville direct on a train although that would take awhile longer than a flight would.

[LA_TN]

2 hours ago, PHofKS said:

I wonder if the Nashville-Chattanooga line will follow the existing rail line through the Cowan Tunnel (2,200ft). It will be a slow ride up the mountain.

Y'all folks familiar with TDOT can probably tell more, but years ago with the high speed rail proposal, it was stated CSX and TDOT would be willing to partner with a tunnel under Monteagle

1 hour ago, MLBrumby said:

Cincy-Louisville-Nashville anyone?  Um, that's a catchment of about 5 million!  Does Nashville have any representative in Congress?  What's his name... Cooper, or something? 

Would help if the Nashville line connected to Louisville to access Chicago. As is, it really limits destinations to the south and east coast

1 hour ago, Binbin98 said:

I can finally go from Miami to Nashville direct on a train although that would take awhile longer than a flight would.

Yes, flying is faster, but much better experience on the train, from spacious seating to FOOD!!

[BnaBreaker]

3 hours ago, MLBrumby said:

Cincy-Louisville-Nashville anyone?  Um, that's a catchment of about 5 million!  Does Nashville have any representative in Congress?  What's his name... Cooper, or something? 

That's what I thought too.  I'm thrilled that they thought to (finally) include us in their expansion plans, but I'm afraid any service might be borderline useless if it doesn't provide Nashvillians with access to the Midwest and East Coast as well.  I mean, Atlanta is nice and all... but we deserve more than to be just some isolated (as Amtrak routes go) secondary outpost of Atlanta.

[smeagolsfree]

Screw Amtrak, It needs to be High speed rail. They just need to start over Amtrak is just too slow. Give it to the private sector and let them run with High speed and then we will be makin bacon. Due to the slow speed of Amtrak I would never use the service if I can drive as fast as the train.

[AsianintheNations]

I'm fine with riding a train that goes the same speed as my car, for the opportunity to rest/listen to music/enjoy the scenery/eat instead of focusing on the road. But virtually all the close destinations from Nashville on that map have minimal public transit (other than Atlanta) , so then I'd need to either rent a car or use rideshare to get anywhere outside of downtown, an inconvenience that extends the distance I would be willing to drive in my own car. By analogy to the human circulatory system, no amount of arteries can take the place of capillaries for keeping your organs alive.

[PruneTracy]

10 hours ago, LA_TN said:

Y'all folks familiar with TDOT can probably tell more, but years ago with the high speed rail proposal, it was stated CSX and TDOT would be willing to partner with a tunnel under Monteagle.

It's kind of two separate things. TDOT partnered with CSX on the study and proposal, and TDOT proposed to build a rail/highway tunnel system under Monteagle, but CSX wouldn't have been involved in the latter part.

The CSX corridor and the Interstate 24 corridor land in two separate valleys to the south of the plateau, so going in together on a tunnel would require miles of relocation for one or the other.

The study is here, by the way:

https://www.tn.gov/content/dam/tn/tdot/documents/highspeed.pdf

[MLBrumby]

I've read a high level rundown of the propsal from the Biden administration.  For the price of the proposed infrastructure bill, it won't get us much infrastructure. A beefed up passenger rail (whether hi-speed or otherwise) from Chicago to Miami would be a big winner. But regarding the rail proposals, it's just putting lipstick on a pig. Still going through it. 

[smeagolsfree]

Amtrak to Nashville without connecting routes to the north is a waste of money. If you can’t do it right, then don’t do it..I would be more inclined to ride if it went north to Chicago, but to Atlanta....No Thanks. I want to go to a city with a good transit system and Atlanta does not have a good transit system. Bare bones at best. So that is why I want my car.

The cost of riding in comfort is not worth it to me. I love to drive and that does not bother me in the least. When I drive a 12 hour driving day is normal.

[MLBrumby]

^ Smeags, I'm doing a 'reply' to the infrastructure bill for an independent think tank client.  We're the unsung  'zeros'  who push back on bad legislation (from both parties).   So far my staff has calculated that around 7% of the total bill will go to real infrastructure. There's a lot of regulatory 'bones' thrown to big donors and a lot of fluff that's only there to appease certain big-money interest groups.  A billion dollars is a lot of money, but small in relation to government spending. How far would a billion go in building a passenger-exclusive leg of rail between Cincinnati and Nashville?  Why isn't Nashville's Congressional rep beating this drum?  He voted as a back-bencher for a trillon-dollar health bill.  

[BnaBreaker]

19 minutes ago, smeagolsfree said:

Amtrak to Nashville without connecting routes to the north is a waste of money. If you can’t do it right, then don’t do it..I would be more inclined to ride if it went north to Chicago, but to Atlanta....No Thanks. I want to go to a city with a good transit system and Atlanta does not have a good transit system. Bare bones at best. So that is why I want my car.

The cost of riding in comfort is not worth it to me. I love to drive and that does not bother me in the least. When I drive a 12 hour driving day is normal.

It makes sense to me to connect Nashville not just to Louisville but further on to Cincinnati.  Not only would that give Nashville a connection to both the Midwest and East Coast, but it would also open up the entire southeastern US to the Midwest/Great Lakes area.  It's crazy, but there really is no direct rail connection between Chicago and Atlanta/Florida without going all the way south to New Orleans and then all the way east, then north/south to your destination, and even that option would be no more under the new plan if they get rid of the Mobile to Jax route.