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The Transportation and Mass Transit Megathread


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8 hours ago, BnaBreaker said:

That photo made me laugh, but that is just straight up dysfunction... wow... does anyone in that department know what they're doing?

My point exactly I mad in another post. Does Metro even know what they are doing? Looks as if they have nothing but a bunch of Jethro Bodine's with 6th grade educations working in the department. The ones making the decisions and the ones that do not question the decisions being carried out. They are just a bunch of mindless goofs!

I know of 12-year-old boy scouts that are smarter than this.

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5 hours ago, smeagolsfree said:

My point exactly I mad in another post. Does Metro even know what they are doing? Looks as if they have nothing but a bunch of Jethro Bodine's with 6th grade educations working in the department. The ones making the decisions and the ones that do not question the decisions being carried out. They are just a bunch of mindless goofs!

I know of 12-year-old boy scouts that are smarter than this.

I sometimes wonder if the whole department is made up of a bunch of redneck NIMBYs that just want to troll those silly Millenial urbanists. 

Honestly, the whole thing is really just infuriating when you consider that if you report something making *driving* more difficult, like a big pot hole or something else that would impede cars, it's put to the top of the list. Something that's making it harder for pedestrians? Eh, we'll get to it, maybe. It's exactly the same way in Northern Virginia, too. Fairfax County is especially bad at it...the vast majority of the residents and leadership want to keep it a car-centric subdivision purgatory and actively work against any sort of transit, pedestrianization, or urbanization. 

Edited by Nathan_in_DC
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19 hours ago, drewbert said:

All those routes already exist, they just added a trip to each. Granted, in the case of the 89 that brings the total number of trips each way to TWO.

https://www.wegotransit.com/ride/bus-schedules/

Few of them leave Nashville in the afternoon later than 5pm. I was told long ago that these routes cater to state workers, many of whom have offset schedules. (Which did me no good as a non-state worker trying to get to Clarksville on a regular basis.)

 

19 hours ago, Nashvillain said:

This is true. The article is written as if these are all new services which made me wonder if they had been eliminated prior, cut back, or maybe if these new routes have different destinations. It's great to add a new trip, but it's still barebones as it gets

Yes indeed, these routes have been around for a quite some time ─ some for 10+ years in some form or fashion.

Unsurprisingly, they've always seemed to cater mostly to state office workers, who work in the CBD, although they also serve others whose commutes from the outside the county (Davidson) might also entail transferring to and from a local route within the core of the city.  Besides, the state is probably the biggest employer in the downtown area.  Because some of these high-numbered routes (express coaches) terminate near the Belmont Univ. area, many state workers have "beotched" about the afternoon / early evening coaches being already half full, by the time the buses reach the downtown pick-up points.

As far as I'm aware, none of the scheduled morning or afternoon departures offers rides for returning via reverse route.  Instead, when a morning inbound or afternoon outbound trip discharges its last passenger at termination, the bus will just "fade away", like the steps of electric stairs (escalator).  There is no morning outbound or afternoon inbound service with these express bus routes.  At least the WeGo Star always has offered "quasi" reverse-commuting from the start ─ since 2006 ─ even with no mid-day service.  Until (unless) WeGo ever can secure a dedicated funding source, then none of these bus routes likely will offer reverse-commuting, much less during mid-day.

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I'll be moving to Donelson and was excited to potentially commute via the train, but the last trip out seems just a little too early. Would be nice if they had one more later trip out of downtown for days I can't leave right at 5 (which is most of them in the architecture field). Have they ever had a later service in the past? or is this a cutback that still exists because of the pandemic?

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On 6/30/2022 at 2:07 PM, Archibum said:

I'll be moving to Donelson and was excited to potentially commute via the train, but the last trip out seems just a little too early. Would be nice if they had one more later trip out of downtown for days I can't leave right at 5 (which is most of them in the architecture field). Have they ever had a later service in the past? or is this a cutback that still exists because of the pandemic?

There never was any normally scheduled evening service beyond the 5:40/5:55 PM time range.

For a while, The Star offered a Friday late-night eastbound trip from Riverfront, but it wouldn't have helped in your case, since it departed around 10:30 P.  It was eliminated in December 2018, because it would put the Music City Star over the maximum 12 daily trips allowed to qualify for a federal exemption to newly mandated Positive Train Control (PTC) technology.  PTC systems are designed to prevent train-to-train collisions, over-speed derailments, incursions into established work zones, and movements of trains through switches left in the wrong position.  The Federal Railroad Administration (FRA) now requires railroads to be PTC-compliant on all lines that transport passengers or toxic-by-inhalation materials.   WeGo probably would have to assume most of the cost for the upgrades ─ to both the track signaling and to its own locomotives.   The current owner of the Nashville & Eastern RR, which hosts the Star, also would need its freight locomotives upgraded with the technology, in order to allow concurrent operations of freight and commuter-rail ─ each of which currently has to operate exclusively between the Riverfront Station and the maintenance facility in Lebanon (where the Star equipment is stored).

Recall the Amtrak derailment that occurred as a result of over-speed  in the Port Richmond community of ‎Philadelphia‎ in 2015 and another in late 2017 in DuPont, WA for the same reason.   These were attributed in part to distraction and/or momentary lack of situational awareness by the engineer.  Another occurred in early 2018 near Cayce SC, due to failure to properly assess and mitigate the risk of conducting switching operations involving a second train before authority was granted for normal speed passage (79 mph) of an oncoming Amtrak train.  Ironically, this one occurred while the line was being upgraded with PTC.  In all cases, human error resulted in fatalities.

Funding restraints currently preclude the upgrade of expanded operation of the Star's, yet another reason that neither mid-day nor evening  trains cannot be added to the current schedule.   Again, a lack of a dedicated transit-funding source becomes a deal-breaker.   It ramifies into a need to forgo much more than what actually can be seen as the obvious.

Edited by rookzie
unmatched indefinite article "an" or "a" before consonant sound
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1 hour ago, Archibum said:

I'll be moving to Donelson and was excited to potentially commute via the train, but the last trip out seems just a little too early. Would be nice if they had one more later trip out of downtown for days I can't leave right at 5 (which is most of them in the architecture field). Have they ever had a later service in the past? or is this a cutback that still exists because of the pandemic?

If you can’t get out of the office in time to catch the last train to Donelson, the bus system (the #6, I believe) offers a route that stops at the Star’s Donelson station. That bus route provides your safety net.

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On 6/30/2022 at 3:46 PM, rookzie said:

There never was any normally scheduled evening service beyond the 5:40/5:55 PM time range.

For a while, The Star offered a Friday late-night eastbound trip from Riverfront, but it wouldn't have helped in your case, since it departed around 10:30 P.  It was eliminated in December 2018, because it would put the Music City Star over the maximum 12 daily trips allowed to qualify for a federal exemption to newly mandated Positive Train Control (PTC) technology.  PTC systems are designed to prevent train-to-train collisions, over-speed derailments, incursions into established work zones, and movements of trains through switches left in the wrong position.  The Federal Railroad Administration (FRA) now requires railroads to be PTC-compliant on all lines that transport passengers or toxic-by-inhalation materials.   WeGo probably would have to assume most of the cost for the upgrades ─ to both the track signaling and to its own locomotives.   The current owner of the Nashville & Eastern RR, which hosts the Star, also would need its freight locomotives upgraded with the technology, in order to allow concurrent operations of freight and commuter-rail ─ each of which currently has to operate exclusively between the Riverfront Station and the maintenance facility in Lebanon (where the Star equipment is stored).

Recall the Amtrak derailment that occurred as a result of over-speed  in the Port Richmond community of ‎Philadelphia‎ in 2015 and another in late 2017 in DuPont, WA for the same reason.   These were attributed in part to distraction and/or momentary lack of situational awareness by the engineer.  Another occurred in early 2018 near Cayce SC, due to failure to properly assess and mitigate the risk of conducting switching operations involving a second train before authority was granted for normal speed passage (79 mph) of an oncoming Amtrak train.  Ironically, this one occurred while the line was being upgraded with PTC.  In all cases, human error resulted in fatalities.

Funding restraints currently preclude the upgrade of expanded operation of the Star's, yet another reason that neither mid-day nor evening  trains cannot be added to the current schedule.   Again, a lack of a dedicated transit-funding source becomes a deal-breaker.   It ramifies into a need to forgo much more than what actually can be seen as the obvious.

The knowledge base on this forum is unmatched! Thanks for the information. 

On 6/30/2022 at 4:00 PM, donNdonelson2 said:

If you can’t get out of the office in time to catch the last train to Donelson, the bus system (the #6, I believe) offers a route that stops at the Star’s Donelson station. That bus route provides your safety net.

Thanks! Good to know about the bus route. I'll have to look into this a bit more. 

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I took MLB's comment objectively to say that our DOT is a little slow to make improvements.  In general, I tend to share that opinion.  Having lived in Atlanta, I do think the GDOT reacts a bit sooner.  As for Atlanta traffic, I'd place more of the cause for it on the city's six million inhabitants than a lack of responsiveness by the GDOT.

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48 minutes ago, MLBrumby said:

Who said it's "great"?  Of course that's the point you inferred from my comment.

What's the point of improving the interchange or having a responsive DOT if not to improve traffic? I thought it was a pretty safe inference. It was also a pretty banal observation so I didn't think anyone would take great offense; sorry if you did. 

Considering all the valuable land that is eaten up by urban freeways and the massive damage they inflicted on communities, I'm kinda glad that ours have remained static since they were installed. I would be much more inclined to remove the freeways altogether than make "improvements" to them 

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Well the fact is that the freeways will never be removed. So yes, they need to always be improved and updated, and as a individual who has driven in all the lower 48 as a commercial driver, TDOT is way behind with their infrastructure. So many dislike the interstates, but they are so vital in the everyday commerce of not only our nation but of the world economy. They are the most efficient way to move vast amounts of goods and people. And I still hold my opinion that Nashville’s traffic woe’s are more the inferior infrastructure and old antiquated and poorly executed interchanges and lack of a “REAL “ beltway to bypass the inner city ,then it is anything else. 

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[sigh]  Apparently banal enough for someone to comment on.  Of course it was a banal comment, and one only intended to support my previous critiques of TDOT.  So are the mods here now responsible for monitoring banality?   :tw_wink:  At least a couple others got my point and acknowledged the obvious growth experienced by my hometown.  Is a comparison between Atlanta's growth (longer-lasting and greater) with Nashville's growth actually necessary here? 

I guess I need to spell out what my first post here refers to, as I (like many who frequently drive I-24 between Chatt & M'boro) wonder why TDOT has not made incremental expansions (in 30 years) to a major highway that takes 4X more traffic (even more than that in truck traffic) than it was  designed to handle.  When I was in private practice and had a large client in Clarksville, I drove that way at least four times a year.  I've expressed on this forum many times my frustration with certain practices of TDOT, among them their refusal to use debt (even under a low D:E ratio) to kickstart much needed projects, their questionable prioritization of superhighways in rural areas at the expense of urban areas, and their slow development and construction of highways (e.g. I-840).  Several others here have agreed in the psat. Regarding my banal comment, I was taking an opportunity to emphasize my previous points by noting the road has not changed in 60 years. I mentioned GDOT as that's one other state's highway agency with which I'm familiar.  So sorry.... I didn't think it necessary to rehash comments I've made about TDOT in the past... and to be clear, I know it's not just the TDOT admininstrators, but also the political leaders of our state.  And speaking of banal, there is no way that TDOT will ever eliminate I-24 through the heart of Nashville. Not only is it frustrating to drivers that very little has been done to address the capacity along that stretch of highway, but it is also in dire need of redesign to help with pollution, to reduce the land dedicated to interchanges, and to make a smoother junction with Ellington.  Then again, these have all been addressed before.  Banal, indeed! 

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45 minutes ago, Luvemtall said:

Well the fact is that the freeways will never be removed. So yes, they need to always be improved and updated, and as a individual who has driven in all the lower 48 as a commercial driver, TDOT is way behind with their infrastructure. So many dislike the interstates, but they are so vital in the everyday commerce of not only our nation but of the world economy. They are the most efficient way to move vast amounts of goods and people. And I still hold my opinion that Nashville’s traffic woe’s are more the inferior infrastructure and old antiquated and poorly executed interchanges and lack of a “REAL “ beltway to bypass the inner city ,then it is anything else. 

Lots of cities are removing sections of their urban freeways, so I'd say it's not outside the realm of possibility. Interstates are vital for moving people and goods, but they don't need to come into the hearts of cities, and I think many would dispute your claim that they are the most efficient way to move goods and people. I think trains are much more efficient at moving both for instance

4 minutes ago, titanhog said:

I do wonder what Nashville would look like if all of the interstates / freeways were removed from Davidson County as the urbanists would like.

We have pictures 

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31 minutes ago, Nashvillain said:

We have pictures 

Not in 2022, we don’t.  That’s what I’m talking about.  If none of the interstates through Nashville were built, what would Nashville be right now?  I don’t think any of us know.  We can guess.  If I-840 was as close as the interstate got to Nashville and the rest of the way it was Nolensville Pike, M’boro Road, Ashland City Highway, etc…what would Nashville be? 

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