The Transportation and Mass Transit Megathread

[nashville born]

@Nashvillain that video you posted was very insight filled.  I wish more folk here in America would catch the "fiscal" benefits cited because, IMO, that tends to be the only thing that moves the needle in our society.  Not death, but money.  Said differently, as soon as groups like that can show more concretely how that Dutch system saves money, the more likely we are to start seeing it slowly integrated into our cities.  It just makes so much sense.  I think about how many times I've seen posters on this site talk about they hope there aren't many curb cuts in a new development or how they hope garage access is off a side street.  That's EXACTLY what this video and system addresses.  The inefficiency and resulting problems from trying to use the same "road" for multiple uses.

I'll say this and be through (for now), America has a LOT of wonderful things about it.  That doesn't mean we do everything better than everyone else..  Please don't take that as unpatriotic.  To that end, my MOS is 12B.  Just stating fact.  In some of my management classes, I'd tell participants to steal shamelessly when they see someone doing something that works well.  I wish we'd do the same in this country.  Steal shamelessly, and let's make great even better.

Edited July 28, 2022 by nashville born

[rolly]

17 hours ago, colemangaines said:

A small startup called Napaway has started a luxury overnight bus route between DC and Nashville. As of now, they only depart DC on Friday nights and depart Nashville on Sunday nights. Here's a video showing what the ride is like.

https://youtu.be/7-ygWEAY4WE

 

Looks cool. Seems the ride was $125 or so.   The big coach could also be electric, which compared to flying could be more earth friendly.  

[colemangaines]

7 hours ago, rolly said:

Looks cool. Seems the ride was $125 or so.   The big coach could also be electric, which compared to flying could be more earth friendly.  

That's a good point, I didn't even think about the climate benefit. The CEO (who doesn't look old enough to drink) also made a good point about the time benefit. Sure the flight may be 6 hours door to door, but it's time you can't use for anything else. As opposed to a 10.5 hour drive where you can sleep, get work done, watch a movie, etc. Personally I would love to see more of this for routes of this distance, I would use it all the time.

[Bos2Nash]

Rather interesting example of the city's baffonery when it comes to pedestrian safety. This will be adjacent to the new Moore Office building under construction right now. That intersection is sheer chaos from a pedestrian standpoint! If I am being honest too, the inclusion of the single parallel spot with the scooter space is ridiculous as well. That probably should have been a bike ride share station and scooter spot.

https://maps.nashville.gov/MPC/2017SP-095-004_plan.pdf

[Nathan_in_DC]

2 hours ago, Bos2Nash said:

Rather interesting example of the city's baffonery when it comes to pedestrian safety. This will be adjacent to the new Moore Office building under construction right now. That intersection is sheer chaos from a pedestrian standpoint! If I am being honest too, the inclusion of the single parallel spot with the scooter space is ridiculous as well. That probably should have been a bike ride share station and scooter spot.

https://maps.nashville.gov/MPC/2017SP-095-004_plan.pdf

That is nuts. The fact that they are placing crosswalks in such a way that you have to cross twice to just go across the street in an area that is quickly becoming one of Nashville's most urban, walkable neighborhoods is insane. The city HAS to start prioritizing convenient walking in these areas. 

[smeagolsfree]

Maybe it is the good ole boy system still at work. Hiring from within and no traffic engineers available.

[Nathan_in_DC]

4 minutes ago, smeagolsfree said:

Maybe it is the good ole boy system still at work. Hiring from within and no traffic engineers available.

Sometimes I really think I could do better with a box of crayons and a printout from Google Maps.

[Nashvillain]

On 7/28/2022 at 2:19 PM, nashville born said:

@Nashvillain that video you posted was very insight filled.  I wish more folk here in America would catch the "fiscal" benefits cited because, IMO, that tends to be the only thing that moves the needle in our society.  Not death, but money.  Said differently, as soon as groups like that can show more concretely how that Dutch system saves money, the more likely we are to start seeing it slowly integrated into our cities.  It just makes so much sense.  I think about how many times I've seen posters on this site talk about they hope there aren't many curb cuts in a new development or how they hope garage access is off a side street.  That's EXACTLY what this video and system addresses.  The inefficiency and resulting problems from trying to use the same "road" for multiple uses.

I'll say this and be through (for now), America has a LOT of wonderful things about it.  That doesn't mean we do everything better than everyone else..  Please don't take that as unpatriotic.  To that end, my MOS is 12B.  Just stating fact.  In some of my management classes, I'd tell participants to steal shamelessly when they see someone doing something that works well.  I wish we'd do the same in this country.  Steal shamelessly, and let's make great even better.

C'mon everybody, take the Orange Pill.

My MOS was 35B. MI was in the same battalion as the Combat Engineers, our company HQs were right next door, but there was a world of difference!

[markhollin]

North Nashville Transit Center update: fencing has ben up for a few months.

Looking SE from intersection of Clarksville Highway and 26th Ave. North:

[nashville born]

A little something for your consideration...

https://www.wkrn.com/news/local-news/nashville/nashville-named-the-least-eco-friendly-city-in-the-united-states/

Nashville named the least eco-friendly city in the United States

Data shows Nashville came in as the number one least eco-friendly city among the 50 most visited cities across the nation. According to the study, Nashville was the lowest scoring city when it came to air pollution, with cities like New York and Seattle reporting cleaner air quality levels than Nashville.

[Nashvillain]

The comments are most unkind towards the continued existence of the slip lane onto Charlotte

[Bos2Nash]

3 hours ago, nashville born said:

A little something for your consideration...

https://www.wkrn.com/news/local-news/nashville/nashville-named-the-least-eco-friendly-city-in-the-united-states/

Nashville named the least eco-friendly city in the United States

Data shows Nashville came in as the number one least eco-friendly city among the 50 most visited cities across the nation. According to the study, Nashville was the lowest scoring city when it came to air pollution, with cities like New York and Seattle reporting cleaner air quality levels than Nashville.

Here is a link to the actual study including their methodology. 

https://parksleepfly.com/blog/usa-sustainable-travel-index/

[GregH]

2 hours ago, Nashvillain said:

The comments are most unkind towards the continued existence of the slip lane onto Charlotte

Slip lanes are a bane but I'm happy about the bike lane on the other side coming up the hill (I think I see it). I always feel more exposed on bigger streets going uphill because the speed differential gets more pronounced. I think Metro got it wrong further out Charlotte where it goes under 440: I guess there was only "room" for bikelane on one side of the street and they put it on the downhill side.

[AsianintheNations]

8 hours ago, Bos2Nash said:

Here is a link to the actual study including their methodology. 

https://parksleepfly.com/blog/usa-sustainable-travel-index/

Thanks for linking this source for the Eco-friendliness study. Reviewing that, I'm skeptical about the data quality... are they seriously listing Houston as having the *least* carbon footprint per capita of any US city? That doesn't pass the sniff test.

Their blurb on Nashville states that it has the worst air pollution (giving a single concentration - it's really only PM2.5 but I'll give that a pass). Having been to many US cities with noticeably more irritating air pollution than Nashville, I went to their data source and took a look at the entry for Nashville, reproduced below. They have a REALLY high reading for August that skewed the entire yearly average. This is not seen with nearby cities. Not sure if they parked their meter right next to a cookout or really late July 4 fireworks for that reading, but it seems improbable that particulate pollution is actually over 10x worse in August than in July. To boot, the exact same website gives the present PM2.5 level in Nashville - in August - as 14.3 (https://www.iqair.com/us/usa/tennessee/nashville).   

Here's LA for comparison:

And then the blurb on Nashville claims that there are only 0.6 miles of protected cycle paths, which is just ... not true. I'm not disputing Nashville's overall eco-unfriendliness, but the data quality really leaves something to be desired.

[BnaBreaker]

7 minutes ago, AsianintheNations said:

Thanks for linking this source for the Eco-friendliness study. Reviewing that, I'm skeptical about the data quality... are they seriously listing Houston as having the *least* carbon footprint per capita of any US city? That doesn't pass the sniff test.

Their blurb on Nashville states that it has the worst air pollution (giving a single concentration - it's really only PM2.5 but I'll give that a pass). Having been to many US cities with noticeably more irritating air pollution than Nashville, I went to their data source and took a look at the entry for Nashville, reproduced below. They have a REALLY high reading for August that skewed the entire yearly average. This is not seen with nearby cities. Not sure if they parked their meter right next to a cookout or really late July 4 fireworks for that reading, but it seems improbable that particulate pollution is actually over 10x worse in August than in July. To boot, the exact same website gives the present PM2.5 level in Nashville - in August - as 14.3 (https://www.iqair.com/us/usa/tennessee/nashville).   

Here's LA for comparison:

And then the blurb on Nashville claims that there are only 0.6 miles of protected cycle paths, which is just ... not true. I'm not disputing Nashville's overall eco-unfriendliness, but the data quality really leaves something to be desired.

That's interesting... and yeah, there is absolutely no way that Houston isn't in the bottom.

[smeagolsfree]

7 hours ago, AsianintheNations said:

Thanks for linking this source for the Eco-friendliness study. Reviewing that, I'm skeptical about the data quality... are they seriously listing Houston as having the *least* carbon footprint per capita of any US city? That doesn't pass the sniff test.

Their blurb on Nashville states that it has the worst air pollution (giving a single concentration - it's really only PM2.5 but I'll give that a pass). Having been to many US cities with noticeably more irritating air pollution than Nashville, I went to their data source and took a look at the entry for Nashville, reproduced below. They have a REALLY high reading for August that skewed the entire yearly average. This is not seen with nearby cities. Not sure if they parked their meter right next to a cookout or really late July 4 fireworks for that reading, but it seems improbable that particulate pollution is actually over 10x worse in August than in July. To boot, the exact same website gives the present PM2.5 level in Nashville - in August - as 14.3 (https://www.iqair.com/us/usa/tennessee/nashville).   

Here's LA for comparison:

And then the blurb on Nashville claims that there are only 0.6 miles of protected cycle paths, which is just ... not true. I'm not disputing Nashville's overall eco-unfriendliness, but the data quality really leaves something to be desired.

Guess we need to see what is defined as protected bike lanes. 

[Bos2Nash]

10 hours ago, AsianintheNations said:

Thanks for linking this source for the Eco-friendliness study. Reviewing that, I'm skeptical about the data quality... are they seriously listing Houston as having the *least* carbon footprint per capita of any US city? That doesn't pass the sniff test.

Their blurb on Nashville states that it has the worst air pollution (giving a single concentration - it's really only PM2.5 but I'll give that a pass). Having been to many US cities with noticeably more irritating air pollution than Nashville, I went to their data source and took a look at the entry for Nashville, reproduced below. They have a REALLY high reading for August that skewed the entire yearly average. This is not seen with nearby cities. Not sure if they parked their meter right next to a cookout or really late July 4 fireworks for that reading, but it seems improbable that particulate pollution is actually over 10x worse in August than in July. To boot, the exact same website gives the present PM2.5 level in Nashville - in August - as 14.3 (https://www.iqair.com/us/usa/tennessee/nashville).   

Here's LA for comparison:

And then the blurb on Nashville claims that there are only 0.6 miles of protected cycle paths, which is just ... not true. I'm not disputing Nashville's overall eco-unfriendliness, but the data quality really leaves something to be desired.

There was definitely alot that didnt pass the sniff test to me either. Houston and LA both have the lowest carbon footprint? Kinda odd.

For the bikes lanes I agree with smeags that the definition of "protected" bike lane. Here is the report they used.

https://www.peopleforbikes.org/reports/protected-bikes-lanes-101

Just from the beginning we know the data is out of whack because they are using a report from 2017 (!!!)

[Nashvillain]

Really great Twitter thread offering a comprehensive critique of the infrastructure/cycling improvements on MLK from 11th ave/Gulch greenway up to the Capitol. Does anyone at NashvilleDot use the infrastructure they're creating?

 

[smeagolsfree]

2 hours ago, Bos2Nash said:

There was definitely alot that didnt pass the sniff test to me either. Houston and LA both have the lowest carbon footprint? Kinda odd.

For the bikes lanes I agree with smeags that the definition of "protected" bike lane. Here is the report they used.

https://www.peopleforbikes.org/reports/protected-bikes-lanes-101

Just from the beginning we know the data is out of whack because they are using a report from 2017 (!!!)

If we go by their own definition, it does not meet the smell test. If the little plastic post count, Nashville has a lot more than the .6 miles, however a lot of get knocked down daily by passing cars. They may mean another kind of plastic post that are more of a deterrent for keeping cars out.

1. Physical separation: Protected bike lanes have some sort of physical, stationary, vertical separation between moving motor vehicle traffic and the bike lane. Examples of vertical separation include plastic posts, bollards, curbs, planters, raised bumps or parked cars. Protected bike lanes can be at street level or raised, either to sidewalk level or a level in between street and sidewalk level. Paint alone does not create a protected bike lane. 
2.  

[CenterHill]

23 minutes ago, Nashvillain said:

Really great Twitter thread offering a comprehensive critique of the infrastructure/cycling improvements on MLK from 11th ave/Gulch greenway up to the Capitol. Does anyone at NashvilleDot use the infrastructure they're creating?

 

Jeezus, why can’t Nashville figure this stuff out?   This project perfectly illustrates the  halfassed commitment the city gives to bike and pedestrian infrastructure.   The city can’t really hold this out as advancing Vision Zero.  To the extent the green paint lures more cyclists onto this stretch of road, I could see the number accidents actually increasing.  

[smeagolsfree]

This proves there are nothing but morons in the NDOT, Parks system, and elsewhere and always has been. This is why when Nashville does a Metro Park rehab, and the park looks like crap in 5 years. There is no thought given on how to do upkeep. Look at the light post that get put in, cheap crap that a drunk tourist can take down by leaning on them and then it takes Metro 2 years to replace. 

This is why I cringe at what is planned at FT Negley. They have a nice plan and then no maintenance and the park will go to hell like all the greenways that are taken over and ruined by homeless folks that are allowed to do whatever they want to. Metro just allows this to happen all the time. Who’s fault is it? Everyone that works in and for Metro because no one takes responsibility for it. The Councilperson will call Metro Police and they say it’s not their job, the Mayor will say it is the councilpersons job. Metro health will say it is Metro Parks. No one takes responsibility until the problem is out of control and the media gets involved and then it is an embarrassment and someone comes in to do damage control. It happens every time the media gets involved because it makes whoever the Mayor is look bad. There needs to be one TV station dedicated to keep Metro in line it seems and keep the Mayor looking bad all the time whoever that is.

There is no thought put into this stuff. They are told to do something the cheapest way and thats what you get. I walked around the old police station for years with weeds growing out of the sidewalks. Never got cut, and across the street I will bet the same weeds are still growing out of the sidewalks. The cruel hard fact is METRO does not care. Metro is spending beyond its mean's and can’t take care of what it has.

[Nashvillain]

8 minutes ago, smeagolsfree said:

Metro is spending beyond its mean's and can’t take care of what it has.

Sprawling development, single-family, and low density commercial certainly don't help. Metro gets the vast majority of its budget via property taxes. These generate low tax revenues. See my complaints about development around 5 Points with single story retail. It's all related. 

[MorganRehnberg]

Bike lanes are being added on 6th Ave S. this week, between Division and Oak St/Bass St/Fort Negley Blvd. In the 3-4 blocks, it looks like it will change between single- and double-striped lines.

(Don’t mind the electric pole obstructing the middle of the sidewalk)

[smeagolsfree]

10 hours ago, MorganRehnberg said:

(Don’t mind the electric pole obstructing the middle of the sidewalk)

Another non-functioning Quasi metro government agency, NES!

[Armacing]

On 8/2/2022 at 11:30 AM, nashville born said:

Data shows Nashville came in as the number one least eco-friendly city among the 50 most visited cities across the nation. According to the study, Nashville was the lowest scoring city when it came to air pollution, with cities like New York and Seattle reporting cleaner air quality levels than Nashville.

I was doubtful of that claim about nashville being #1 for pollution, so I checked at the EPA Air Quality website and downloaded their summary data for 2021.  Link below:

https://www.epa.gov/outdoor-air-quality-data/air-quality-statistics-report

Here's what I found after sorting the data for each major pollutant reported on in that data:   (ranked with worst city/CBSA as #1, then getting better as you move down the list)

CARBON MONOXIDE  [CO 8-hour max reading]

1. Pittsburgh = 4.2

2. Los Angeles = 3.4

3, El Centro, CA = 2.9 

4. El Paso, TX = 2.6 

5. Phoenix = 2.6

6. Las Vegas = 2.3

7. Anchorage, AK = 2.5 

8. New York = 2.2

9. Cleveland = 2.1

10. Houston = 2.1

~~Nashville came it at # 15 tied with Atlanta and Washington DC who all had readings of 1.7

NITROGEN DIOXIDE [Annual Mean]

1. San Bernardino, CA = 30

2. Phoenix = 26

3. Denver = 26

4. Los Angeles = 25

5. Bakersfield, CA = 23

6. Las Vegas = 22

7. New York = 19

8. Fresno, CA = 19

9. Atlanta = 17

10. Chicago = 17

~~ Nashville came in at #21 tied with Austin, Oklahoma City, Miami, Dallas, San Diego, Richmond, and Milwaukee who all had readings of 13

SURFACE LEVEL OZONE [8-hour Max reading]

1. San Bernardino, CA = 0.112

2. Los Angeles = 0.097

3. Bakersfield, CA = 0.094

4. Visalia, CA = 0.094

5. Fresno, CA = 0.090

6. Truckee, CA = 0.090

7. Denver = 0.089

8. Salt Lake City = 0.087

9. Stamford, CT = 0.086

10. Las Cruces, NM = 0.086

~~ Nashville came in #152 tied with Austin, Richmond, Raleigh, and Omaha who all had a reading of 0.066

SULFUR DIOXIDE [Annual Mean]

1. Hilo, HI = 9

2. Borger, TX = 6

3. Pocatello, ID = 4

4. Fairbanks, AK = 4

5. Ogdensburg, NY = 4

6. Pittsburgh = 3

7. Amarillo, TX = 3

8. Steubenville, OH = 3

9. Kingsport, TN = 3

10. Chicago = 2

~~ Nashville's annual mean averaged out to zero like a lot of cities.  It seems the Sulfur Dioxide list is dominated by cities who are affected by single-point emission sources.  Like Hilo, Hawaii who gets blasted by SO2 from the Kilauea volcano.  Fairbanks is plagued by thermal inversions during the winter that trap pollution in the valley.  Pittsburg and Chicago appear to be the only cities with high SO2 due to just being large polluted cities.  The others all had chemical or petrochemical plants located nearby.

PARTICULATES 2.5 MICRONS [Weighted Mean]

1. Visalia, CA = 20.7

2. Bakersfield, CA = 20.0

3. Klamath Falls, OR = 18.6

4. San Bernardino, CA = 17.8

5. Fresno, CA = 17.2

6. Miami, OK = 15.9 [caused by limestone mining?]

7. Hanford, CA = 15.6

8. Modesto, CA = 15

9. Yuba City, CA = 14.5

10. Los Angeles = 13.8

~~Nashville was #45 with a reading of 11.1 

Of course, California features prominently in the Particulate list not only due to unfortunate geography (mountains) that concentrates pollution, but also wildfires and even pollution drifting across the Pacific ocean from China.