The Transportation and Mass Transit Megathread

[GregH]

On 8/3/2022 at 1:25 PM, CenterHill said:

Jeezus, why can’t Nashville figure this stuff out?   This project perfectly illustrates the  halfassed commitment the city gives to bike and pedestrian infrastructure.   The city can’t really hold this out as advancing Vision Zero.  To the extent the green paint lures more cyclists onto this stretch of road, I could see the number accidents actually increasing.  

I think most of these weirdo bike infrastructure decisions make sense through this lens: They are primarily (for political reasons) only able to do things that do not remove lanes of car traffic and only rarely are able to reduce street parking, and they do not have a lot of budget for actually reconfiguring curbs / sidewalks etc. (which we all know is fantastically expensive for...reasons). So when your only tools are paint and flex posts...that's what you get. When there's not enough space to make a bike lane without cutting into car space...you use the gutter or end it completely. I'm sure NDOT (or at least some people at NDOT) aren't looking at this like "hell yeah we did the best thing", they're thinking "we did what we could do and it's better than it was". We're never going to get actually good bike and pedestrian infrastructure without taking space away from cars (or I guess spending billions to acquire more right of way) and right now there's not the political will to do that.

[Nathan_in_DC]

On 8/3/2022 at 9:54 PM, MorganRehnberg said:

(Don’t mind the electric pole obstructing the middle of the sidewalk)

Clearly sidewalks are for keeping utilities out of the road, not to let pedestrians have a safe place to walk. 

I don't know how the city isn't constantly being sued for ADA violations with crap like this everywhere.

[Nashvillain]

38 minutes ago, GregH said:

I think most of these weirdo bike infrastructure decisions make sense through this lens: They are primarily (for political reasons) only able to do things that do not remove lanes of car traffic and only rarely are able to reduce street parking, and they do not have a lot of budget for actually reconfiguring curbs / sidewalks etc. (which we all know is fantastically expensive for...reasons). So when your only tools are paint and flex posts...that's what you get. When there's not enough space to make a bike lane without cutting into car space...you use the gutter or end it completely. I'm sure NDOT (or at least some people at NDOT) aren't looking at this like "hell yeah we did the best thing", they're thinking "we did what we could do and it's better than it was". We're never going to get actually good bike and pedestrian infrastructure without taking space away from cars (or I guess spending billions to acquire more right of way) and right now there's not the political will to do that.

Which is why it's crucial to document all the reasons that this infrastructure sucks and let TDOT, NDOT, the mayor, and the council know that this is not safe infrastructure and it's woefully inadequate. I am hopeful that we're reaching a tipping point where the will to remove on car infrastructure and that streets really should be multi-modal and safe for everyone is going to be increasingly normalized in big cities around the country  

Edited August 5, 2022 by Nashvillain

[Bos2Nash]

47 minutes ago, Nashvillain said:

Which is why it's crucial to document all the reasons that this infrastructure sucks and let TDOT, NDOT, the mayor, and the council know that this is not safe infrastructure and it's woefully inadequate. I am hopeful that we're reaching a tipping point where the will to remove on car infrastructure and that streets really should be multi-modal and safe for everyone is going to be increasingly normalized in big cities around the country  

I agree that the powers at be need to know (I going out on a very strong limb that they already do), but the next step is $$$$. Unfortunately it does not grow on trees and we all know how a recent tax hike went over.

I can be just as theoretical as the next guy (or the Not Just Bikes guy when it comes to American infrastructure), but until we find creative funding mechanisms it'll remain the same. 

Similar to the WeGo Star pitch I threw out here a week or so ago. I have no idea how that would be funded. Maybe some federal grants, maybe some form of tax dedication (I would be curious how much revenue just the car rental tax and hotel tax increase from the last referendum would've brought in), idk. But clearly Metro doesn't have the funds for some of our community's wish list items so we need to start asking where we can find money for the laundry list of items we all point out.

[MLBrumby]

This discussion makes me wonder if the structure of the Metro Council might be a big reason there's such inconsistent infrastructure around the county.  Without a centralized leader in (Mayor's) office and the various priorities of the ("forty jealous whores") CMs, I wonder: Who's herding the cats to make sure there's consistent rollout, development of standards and connections between districts?  

[Bos2Nash]

I think we are also experiencing the drawbacks of the countywide government. We have to spread more resources around to areas that generate less revenue (but still need to be provided for).  Even our Urban Services District is very large and covers areas that generate minimal tax revenue. Our Metro government has to cover 526 square miles (?) with a city council that is approximately 1 per 17,000 citizens (stupid low FYI). For comparison, Austin, TX is ±270 square miles, Charlotte, NC is ±300 square miles, NYC is ±300 square miles and Boston, MA is ±90 square miles (all of this are google searched references only). They are able to spend their tax revenue on vastly smaller areas of land and population. All of this ties together with educations, transportation, civil services, etc. 

Bigger is not always better.

[Nashvillain]

33 minutes ago, MLBrumby said:

This discussion makes me wonder if the structure of the Metro Council might be a big reason there's such inconsistent infrastructure around the county.  Without a centralized leader in (Mayor's) office and the various priorities of the ("forty jealous whores") CMs, I wonder: Who's herding the cats to make sure there's consistent rollout, development of standards and connections between districts?  

This centralized executive function falls under the mayor and the city agencies, in this case, NDOT

[PaulChinetti]

Land Value Tax, let's do it! 

https://www.urbanthree.com/who-we-help/

[Bos2Nash]

41 minutes ago, PaulChinetti said:

Land Value Tax, let's do it! 

https://www.urbanthree.com/who-we-help/

Gonna share a link to the previous LVT conversion that was had over on the Bits and Pieces thread.

I still disagree with an LVT (see the linked thread for my reasons). I do think that service from Urban3 could be useful for Nashville in how they move forwards with zoning changes and updating the community character plans and how things can be communicated with the public. I would say that this kind of modelling as a base for an LVT could open the door for a lot of subjective and arbitrary values being assessed on a number of variables which Metro could severely pay a price for. 

Half the battle with development and bringing in revenue from such development is educating the community on the impact. So taking this tool, coupling it with other data analysis that would show the impact on things such as education, infrastructure, civil service would be extremely helpful. If the city then made this data available to developers (which I tend to doubt they would for free) when they go after zoning changes for larger developments, the community could be more understanding. 

[PaulChinetti]

Ooo thank you.

When I think of LVT, I think of intersections like this that have to cost a fortune from an upkeep standpoint. Which have to be making no money back from the surrounding properties/area in property tax.

[Baronakim]

24 minutes ago, PaulChinetti said:

Ooo thank you.

When I think of LVT, I think of intersections like this that have to cost a fortune from an upkeep standpoint. Which have to be making no money back from the surrounding properties/area in property tax.

Old Hickory and Lebenon Pike.  Must be an older view a there is a Five Guys & retail in the graded foreground area.

[PaulChinetti]

1 hour ago, Baronakim said:

Old Hickory and Lebenon Pike.  Must be an older view a there is a Five Guys & retail in the graded foreground area.

I still can't imagine that those developments are paying enough in property tax to cover the upkeep of this monstrosity!

[Bos2Nash]

Oh I'm positive they're not. And they probably never will. This goes back to a bit of the conversation that was occurring in the coffeehouse threads about how the urban environment subsidizes the suburban environment. For this area to have enough taxation to pay for infrastructure like this without some form of subsidization the tax rate would have to be so high that it would just make financial sense to live and operate in the city.

[donNdonelson2]

1 hour ago, PaulChinetti said:

I still can't imagine that those developments are paying enough in property tax to cover the upkeep of this monstrosity!

Isn’t a major chunk of the cost of upkeep on an intersection of this sort (whether it’s this one or something similar on the other side of town) covered by the gasoline tax, not property taxes?

[PaulChinetti]

14 hours ago, donNdonelson2 said:

Isn’t a major chunk of the cost of upkeep on an intersection of this sort (whether it’s this one or something similar on the other side of town) covered by the gasoline tax, not property taxes?

That is a great question. 

[markhollin]

A new effort to replace Nashville's outdated, coin-based, on-street parking system with digital meters is stalled as one of six bidders for the lucrative contract challenges the fairness of Metro's hiring process. 

This is the second time Metro has chosen LAZ Parking of Georgia to manage its proposed next-generation parking system. It's also the second time the deal was sidelined by competitors' accusations of preferential treatment in favor of LAZ. 

Metro's Procurement Appeals Board will hear SP Plus Corp.'s appeal on Monday The company won the highest score in the first round of bidding but was rejected as "unresponsive" in the second round. 

Related News:Nashville solicits private partner to overhaul 'underperforming' on-street parking system

Parking Deal:Nashville parking deal, other asset sales questioned by state comptroller

Metro awarded management of a new "smart-parking" system to LAZ in May. The company was also chosen for the role in a failed 2019 parking overhaul plan. 

But SP+ officials argue that Metro's request included an impossible-to-accept provision requiring $2 million in annual payments — whether the operator's profits covered that or not. 

Metro rejected SP+, which is based in Chicago, when it sought an alternative financial model. LAZ Parking, which received the second-highest scores in the first round, was chosen. Then Metro officials reversed course and allowed LAZ to modify the same provision that they rejected SP+'s application over, the firm argues in letters to Metro. 

SP+ is asking Metro to vacate its agreement with LAZ and reopen the bidding process, according to documents. 

More behind TheTennessean paywall here:

https://www.tennessean.com/story/money/industries/2022/08/15/smart-parking-companies-vie-to-overhaul-nashville-street-parking/10303087002/

[Bos2Nash]

Can't get out of our own way.....

[titanhog]

2 hours ago, markhollin said:

A new effort to replace Nashville's outdated, coin-based, on-street parking system with digital meters is stalled as one of six bidders for the lucrative contract challenges the fairness of Metro's hiring process. 

This is the second time Metro has chosen LAZ Parking of Georgia to manage its proposed next-generation parking system. It's also the second time the deal was sidelined by competitors' accusations of preferential treatment in favor of LAZ. 

Metro's Procurement Appeals Board will hear SP Plus Corp.'s appeal on Monday The company won the highest score in the first round of bidding but was rejected as "unresponsive" in the second round. 

Related News:Nashville solicits private partner to overhaul 'underperforming' on-street parking system

Parking Deal:Nashville parking deal, other asset sales questioned by state comptroller

Metro awarded management of a new "smart-parking" system to LAZ in May. The company was also chosen for the role in a failed 2019 parking overhaul plan. 

But SP+ officials argue that Metro's request included an impossible-to-accept provision requiring $2 million in annual payments — whether the operator's profits covered that or not. 

Metro rejected SP+, which is based in Chicago, when it sought an alternative financial model. LAZ Parking, which received the second-highest scores in the first round, was chosen. Then Metro officials reversed course and allowed LAZ to modify the same provision that they rejected SP+'s application over, the firm argues in letters to Metro. 

SP+ is asking Metro to vacate its agreement with LAZ and reopen the bidding process, according to documents. 

More behind TheTennessean paywall here:

https://www.tennessean.com/story/money/industries/2022/08/15/smart-parking-companies-vie-to-overhaul-nashville-street-parking/10303087002/

Sounds like SP+ has a case.  If you choose them, then brush them aside because they won’t agree to the $2 Million minimum payment to Metro and want to come up with a different plan…and then choose the other company and don’t make them adhere to the $2 Million minimum…yikes.

[BnaBreaker]

Holy crap, I had no idea coin-based parking meters were still in operation anywhere.  To say that those are outdated is quite the understatement.  

[donNdonelson2]

1 minute ago, BnaBreaker said:

Holy crap, I had no idea coin-based parking meters were still in operation anywhere.  To say that those are outdated is quite the understatement.  

Almost nobody puts any money in them, and there is practically NO enforcement of downtown parking. You can walk past many parking meters before you see one that isn’t flashing the indication that time is expired. (And there’s always tons of cars parked in no parking zones, and often in active lanes of traffic, and no enforcement, day or night.) It’s really ridiculous.

(Don't get me started on the valet parking guys at Capitol Hotel who often have cars completely or partially blocking the sidewalk on Union Street! I went into the lobby and yelled at the front desk about that on Sunday morning.)

[FluffyP13]

I mean it's 2022, who carries coins!??? its ridiculous how outdated and backwards are parking meters are 

[Nashvillain]

This is just tons of money Metro is leaving on the street, so to speak. On-street parking is valuable real estate and prices--and enforcement--should reflect that.

Donald Shoup, "The High Cost of Free Parking"

Edited August 15, 2022 by Nashvillain

[PaulChinetti]

Soooo much it's insane. 

[BNAfan]

4 hours ago, Nashvillain said:

This is just tons of money Metro is leaving on the street, so to speak. On-street parking is valuable real estate and prices--and enforcement--should reflect that.

Donald Shoup, "The High Cost of Free Parking"

Alternatively, remove the parking completely (other than emergency/essential spots) and use space for public transit.  If its not making money and enforcement is expensive, then use for dedicated public transit.   I know folks will have a 1,000 reasons why not, but it is fun to think about.  

[KJHburg]

Hopefully Nashville looked at this company based in Charlotte called Passport Parking.  Their meters take credit cards and they have a great app.  They work with clients from coast to coast. 

https://www.passportparking.com/       https://www.passportinc.com/

and if I known your meters were in such disrepair I would have parked at one LOL on my last visit.