The Transportation and Mass Transit Megathread

[markhollin]

A new ordinance proposed by Metro Councilmember Colby Sledge aims to eliminate minimum parking requirements in much of Nashville. The current zoning code requires new developments to allot funding and space to a certain number of parking spaces based on the type of structure.  

The ordinance, co-sponsored by Councilmembers Brett Withers and Freddie O’Connell, would amend section 17.20.040 of the Metropolitan Code of Laws. Its passing would mean businesses would decide on their own how much money and space to put toward parking. 

Sledge estimated, based on conversations with developers, that project costs can increase by $30,000 to $35,000 per parking space. He explained that the brunt of this cost falls on the residents or tenants, who must pay increased rent due to the cost of development. He said he hopes the proposed ordinance will open the city up to more affordable developments. 

“Let's give the opportunity to create housing at a lower cost to developers, and thereby a lower cost to the residents, because they're not being required to subsidize a parking space that they may or may not use,” said Sledge. 

More behind the Nashville Post paywall here:

https://www.nashvillepost.com/business/development/proposal-would-eliminate-parking-requirements-in-much-of-nashville/article_e4dca98b-ccd3-5606-b620-aa9691e39404.html

[rookzie]

14 hours ago, MagicPotato said:

Interesting.... So what's next? Maybe a transit system or will the land be used for something else?

The Smeags posted this, this past Tuesday in the "Inner Loop - CBD, Downtown, East Bank, Germantown, Gulch, Rutledge" thread.
─ pp. 766-767

Since it's relevance overlaps two separate topics, we (starting with me) digressed and discussed its significance in relation to transit (or not).  The jury is still out ─ way out.....

[Bos2Nash]

3 hours ago, markhollin said:

A new ordinance proposed by Metro Councilmember Colby Sledge aims to eliminate minimum parking requirements in much of Nashville. The current zoning code requires new developments to allot funding and space to a certain number of parking spaces based on the type of structure.  

The ordinance, co-sponsored by Councilmembers Brett Withers and Freddie O’Connell, would amend section 17.20.040 of the Metropolitan Code of Laws. Its passing would mean businesses would decide on their own how much money and space to put toward parking. 

Sledge estimated, based on conversations with developers, that project costs can increase by $30,000 to $35,000 per parking space. He explained that the brunt of this cost falls on the residents or tenants, who must pay increased rent due to the cost of development. He said he hopes the proposed ordinance will open the city up to more affordable developments. 

“Let's give the opportunity to create housing at a lower cost to developers, and thereby a lower cost to the residents, because they're not being required to subsidize a parking space that they may or may not use,” said Sledge. 

More behind the Nashville Post paywall here:

https://www.nashvillepost.com/business/development/proposal-would-eliminate-parking-requirements-in-much-of-nashville/article_e4dca98b-ccd3-5606-b620-aa9691e39404.html

For those who are interested, this zoning ordinance would remove parking within the Urban Zoning Overlay (UZO). Below is a picture of the extents of the UZO.

[smeagolsfree]

What chances do you folks think this has of passing??? I say very little, but at least the conversation has started, and this will be a first step for whom ever the next mayor is (if not Cooper) to start talking mass transit again.

[GregH]

I'd like to think it has a good chance but I really have no idea. On reddit people are already misunderstanding or misrepresenting what it would accomplish as "omg they're banning parking". Really IMO it's a small thing that aligns with both conservative and liberal values, won't have much immediate impact, but will set the stage for slow improvement. However, "People who drive cars" might be the biggest single political constituency in the US and that defies all other political orientations so...who knows.

[PaulChinetti]

54 minutes ago, GregH said:

On reddit people are already misunderstanding or misrepresenting what it would accomplish as "omg they're banning parking". 

The Nashville people on Reddit are the most frustrating people. I basically never visit anymore they are all so negative about anything and everything. 

[smeagolsfree]

22 hours ago, PaulChinetti said:

The Nashville people on Reddit are the most frustrating people. I basically never visit anymore they are all so negative about anything and everything. 

Were you able to "Splain it to em" in "simple words" they could understand that it just gives the developer the option and is not a ban. Just proves how many morons there are in Nashville. I wonder if these are the ones that were bore here and a product of Metro schools or the one that are NIMBY transplants from other parts of the country just trying to stir the pot.

[PaulChinetti]

58 minutes ago, smeagolsfree said:

Were you able to "Splain it to em" in "simple words" they could understand that it just gives the developer the option and is not a ban. Just proves how many morons there are in Nashville. I wonder if these are the ones that were bore here and a product of Metro schools or the one that are NIMBY transplants from other parts of the country just trying to stir the pot.

I don’t even try anymore. I’ve exhausted my patience, which I thought was vast haha. 

[BnaBreaker]

On 9/4/2022 at 10:20 AM, PaulChinetti said:

I don’t even try anymore. I’ve exhausted my patience, which I thought was vast haha. 

Same... always thought I had a relatively long fuse when it came to dealing with other people, but when it comes to dealing with those who refuse to acknowledge objective reality, now that that's apparently a thing, I find that my wick is much, much shorter.  lol

Edited September 5, 2022 by BnaBreaker

[yontu2]

6 hours ago, PaulChinetti said:

I don’t even try anymore. I’ve exhausted my patience, which I thought was vast haha. 

A friend of mine, who is active on Reddit (Nashville sub-Reddit and otherwise) calls this Urban Planet discussion board "Fake Reddit".

Don't worry, I let her know that Fake Reddit is fed up with Real Reddit.

[PaulChinetti]

1 minute ago, yontu2 said:

A friend of mine, who is active on Reddit (Nashville sub-Reddit and otherwise) calls this Urban Planet discussion board "Fake Reddit".

Don't worry, I let her know that Fake Reddit is fed up with Real Reddit.

HAHAHAHA


I've been on a roundabout kick lately, driving around early today, there are so many places where a roundabout could replace and light and would work better like 90% of the time. I wish Nashville would use them more. 

[rookzie]

1 hour ago, PaulChinetti said:

HAHAHAHA


I've been on a roundabout kick lately, driving around early today, there are so many places where a roundabout could replace and light and would work better like 90% of the time. I wish Nashville would use them more. 

I hope you don't do what I still do for entertainment now and then ─ drive around those things 2 or 3 times nonstop.   At my age it sometimes takes the simplest or even "simpleton" things to get my fix of levity.  The smaller ones are the "funnest", since they're like 360 hairpins, kind of like how the Tilt-O-Whirl used to get me in stitches (or donuts on a snowy plaza).

Edited September 4, 2022 by rookzie

[PaulChinetti]

3 minutes ago, rookzie said:

I hope you don't do what I still do for entertainment now and then ─ drive around those things 2 or 3 times nonstop.   At my age it sometimes takes the simplest or even "simpleton" things to get my fix of levity.  The smaller ones are the "funnest", since they're like 360 hairpins, kind of like how the Tilt-O-Whirl used to get me in stitches (or donuts on a snowy plaza).

I DO! I usually keep going until my wife notices  record is 8 go rounds.

[titanhog]

4 hours ago, PaulChinetti said:

I DO! I usually keep going until my wife notices  record is 8 go rounds.

Sounds like proof your wife spends a lot of time ignoring you. 

[Nathan_in_DC]

On 8/27/2022 at 5:44 PM, rookzie said:

WeGo Star commuter-rail remains a far cry from justified electrification of at this point.  Unlike with most other agencies, WeGo just doesn’t have the ridership density to justify electrification for either EMUs or locomotive-hauled push-pulls.  Granted, much of issue has stemmed from a lack of major investment beyond the initial opening in 2008 and having to deal with constraints of the existing single route system ─ one of which is the narrow RoW clearance at the Omohundro water treatment plant.  Scalable frequency can be increased to an extent with strategically located passing sidings, but double-tracking is the only way to eliminate complexity in train dispatching for concurrent bi-directional operation in achieving peak frequency.  Also, the fact that the Riverfront station never effectively can serve additional lines an expanded network means that it basically will remain isolated from an expanded network that would include lines with potentially much denser ridership.  The same would apply to the proposed Northwest Corridor, if its eastern terminus would be separate from a centrally shared terminal with all other routes of long-range proposals.

Unless and until a regional rail network can be built out to serve more than a single corridor with those corridors sharing a single meeting point, it will remain impractical in this day and age, to electrify the single existing corridor, even with expanding that corridor to connect with the airport.  The existing corridor would be considerably more in demand, if it’s terminal could be shared with other corridors.  I mentioned a number of years ago that a connection could be built to reroute the Eastern corridor to a centralized shared terminal location by expanding on the “Southern Junction” that begins north of Hermitage Ave. at the NES South Substation and connecting at grade with the CSX in the Cameron-Trimble area.   All major expandability of the Star network would be contingent on a huge infusion of capital and dangling carrots for CSX, and this has been said an infinite number of times during the recent 2 calendar decades.  Piecemealing the single existing corridor without ongoing action for build-out of other long-ago proposed corridors basically means that the potential of the existing single corridor never can be realized.  Collectively, the individual separate corridors would tend to organically induce ridership among themselves by transfer connectivity.  Sustainable funding only can be justified with establishing of additional routes IMO.

Amazing post as per usual, Rookzie! I think your point here about outside limitations on service keeping Nashville from realizing its commuter rail potential is a very good one. With the huge influx of workers into the CBD and the exponential growth (in both population and density) of the exurbs as people try to find affordable housing in the region, Nashville would theoretically be an ideal scenario for expanded, frequent, commuter rail. In order for that to happen though we're basically going to have to tear it down and start over with the downtown connections, though. To service two lines effectively you need at least a two-track terminal station, or ideally, a four-track in-line station.  The rail infrastructure is almost there, especially if the state could work with CSX to make use of right-of-way to double or triple track existing lines to terminals in Franklin, Murfreesboro, Gallatin, and (maybe) Dickson. Murfreesboro and Franklin could almost certainly sustain frequent, two-way, 6 or 7 day a week service with DMU equipment. Gallatin and Dickson could at least do rush hour weekday service serviced by push-pull consists (maybe not enough demand to justify reverse commutes on those routes, though). And hey, if CSX is reducing operations at the downtown yard, that kind of makes an ideal location for a downtown terminal station.

There are a lot of moving parts that make this all more of a pipe-dream than anything, as well as CSX playing nicely (which we know is almost certainly not going to happen). Who knows though, if fuel costs keep rising, maybe people will start demanding alternatives to 40-mile-one-way commutes?

[Nashvillain]

Mr. Biden, Tear Down This Highway 

from the NYTimes

[Nathan_in_DC]

4 hours ago, Nashvillain said:

Mr. Biden, Tear Down This Highway 

from the NYTimes

I was coming to post this very article. However bad Nashville may be when it comes to highways, Houston will always be worse.

[glamdring269]

Had a discussion with some friends over the weekend regarding work from home and impact on Nashville (and surrounding area) traffic. Does anyone have any data on % of folks in the metro area who are still working from home for the most part? It wouldn't surprise me if that is still a significant %. I know of at least 2 close friends who used to commute from Murfreesboro to Nashville every day who are still working from the house. We had a morning flight recently and I had forgotten how bad traffic is going into Nashville and it made me wonder just how terrible of a shock it might be if everyone suddenly had to return to office at any point in the future.  Let's assume this happens on March 1st, 2023. This would represent ~3 years of population growth that might not have added commute strain on the network due to work from home. How bad do you think it would be if all of this growth was suddenly represented on the roads in a morning commute? And do you think it would be impactful enough that it might help push forward some of these transit proposals more rapidly?

Edited September 12, 2022 by glamdring269

[grilled_cheese]

pitiful

 

https://cfms.nashville.gov/Sidewalks/Home/InteractiveMap

[Nathan_in_DC]

19 minutes ago, grilled_cheese said:

pitiful

 

https://cfms.nashville.gov/Sidewalks/Home/InteractiveMap

Holy crap, don't look at the price estimates on some of these. For instance, $1.4 million to add sidewalks to Eastland between 16th and 17th Streets. That seems excessive, even if they're burying utilities in the process.

[Deepdish53]

2 hours ago, Nathan_in_DC said:

Holy crap, don't look at the price estimates on some of these. For instance, $1.4 million to add sidewalks to Eastland between 16th and 17th Streets. That seems excessive, even if they're burying utilities in the process.

With many sidewalk projects the majority of the cost does not come from the concrete going on the ground, it's the drainage. If the existing roadway utilizes a ditch, then we're talking about putting a curb and gutter drainage system in where one doesn't exist today. That involves excavation, expensive concrete structures and pipes, and then connecting that new storm drainage system into other storm drainage systems that are existing today (which often means going outside the immediate project area to adjust existing drainage structures and connect to them). $1.1M for that little stretch of sidewalk certainly seems excessive, but the "per linear foot" costs are higher when you get to these small projects and with how construction costs have skyrocketed recently it doesn't seem too far out of whack.

[Nashvillain]

 

[MagicPotato]

10 hours ago, glamdring269 said:

Had a discussion with some friends over the weekend regarding work from home and impact on Nashville (and surrounding area) traffic. Does anyone have any data on % of folks in the metro area who are still working from home for the most part? It wouldn't surprise me if that is still a significant %. I know of at least 2 close friends who used to commute from Murfreesboro to Nashville every day who are still working from the house. We had a morning flight recently and I had forgotten how bad traffic is going into Nashville and it made me wonder just how terrible of a shock it might be if everyone suddenly had to return to office at any point in the future.  Let's assume this happens on March 1st, 2023. This would represent ~3 years of population growth that might not have added commute strain on the network due to work from home. How bad do you think it would be if all of this growth was suddenly represented on the roads in a morning commute? And do you think it would be impactful enough that it might help push forward some of these transit proposals more rapidly?

I'm pretty sure the traffic volume is still fairly high. I did notice some "cool" days and some "hot" days. I'm guessing it's from the incoming tourist traffic and work commuters that alternates their WFH/Office schedules. I have a few friends that works an alternate work schedule where some days they go in and some days they work from home. 

[markhollin]

Benton Ave. improvements near GEODIS Park Soccer Stadium including sidewalks and buffers.

Looking east from intersection of Rains Ave. and Benton Ave:

Looking west from intersection of Rains Ave. and Benton Ave:

[MagicPotato]

I just got back from a trip in Las Vegas and it's crazy how superior their infrastructure is compared to ours. Granted, LV is denser but both cities are still around the 2-2.5 mil population range and LV does a better job at handling infrastructure.  LV does happen to have significant tourism compared to Nashville, so that may also be another aspect to take in. The loops and beltlines are well built with accommodating lanes. There was barely any stand still traffic. Most of the time the traffic was slow moving not like in Nashville. Even the city roads were well built. The city roads mostly accommodated 3 lanes, even 3 turning lanes. While a lot of Nashville's inner city roads are still single lane. LV does have transit, but I wouldn't really consider it usable outside of the strip. 

Nashville needs to take note. It'll be nice if Nashville at least has some kind of infrastructure connecting the airport to downtown.