The Transportation and Mass Transit Megathread

[markhollin]

8 hours ago, MagicPotato said:

I just got back from a trip in Las Vegas and it's crazy how superior their infrastructure is compared to ours.

 

The two biggest differences are:  1) Las Vegas is on a very flat terrain where imagining a grid/infrastructure is fairly simple (they don't even have river beds to work around); 2) the city has been created from pretty much zero over the past 5 decades.  Much easier to design something with better flow when you aren't having to work around 1800s road systems and train tracks. 

[Sean blackdog]

Today this evening. 
Working on new Donelson Pike near BNA and I-40 East. 

Edited September 26, 2022 by Sean blackdog

[markhollin]

Vertiports for air taxis seem to be moving forward as the technology for passenger carrying drones is becoming available.  Where would be a good location for a landing pad/terminal in Nashville's urban core?  Would we need more than one?

https://www.axios.com/2022/09/26/vertiport-flying-taxi?fbclid=IwAR1I4ecBm_1JdTGOFXpRxTG7sle2H6h5DccoT0JRo1B3TbgIisYZKIxFTzQ

 

[GregH]

That's kind of neat but seems extremely premature for something that doesn't have FAA approval...or a single non-prototype product in use anywhere in the world.

[ThunderOne]

I've seen large sections of streets with new construction and the sidewalks are still very spotty, is Walk Bike Nashville still talking to the city about this?

[PaulChinetti]

13 hours ago, Sean blackdog said:

Today this evening. 
Working on new Donelson Pike near BNA and I-40 East. 

 

For the life of me I do not understand the point of this, can someone enlighten me??

[GregH]

14 minutes ago, PaulChinetti said:

For the life of me I do not understand the point of this, can someone enlighten me??

https://www.tn.gov/tdot/projects/region-3/i-40-donelson-pike-interchange.html

 

I guess "better traffic flow" plus it gets BNA a bit more real estate to work with west of Donelson.

Edited September 26, 2022 by GregH

[Mr_Bond]

3 hours ago, markhollin said:

Vertiports for air taxis seem to be moving forward as the technology for passenger carrying drones is becoming available.  Where would be a good location for a landing pad/terminal in Nashville's urban core?  Would we need more than one?

https://www.axios.com/2022/09/26/vertiport-flying-taxi?fbclid=IwAR1I4ecBm_1JdTGOFXpRxTG7sle2H6h5DccoT0JRo1B3TbgIisYZKIxFTzQ

 

I was thinking about this several years ago.  The technology behind these taxis should allow them to land on top of almost any tall-ish building.  Imagine every tower with one taxipad on top of it.  When I need a lift, I would make my reservation via app and then proceed to the taxipad on top of my condo building.

[donNdonelson2]

1 hour ago, PaulChinetti said:

For the life of me I do not understand the point of this, can someone enlighten me??

It eliminates left turns across oncoming traffic to enter the ramps to I-40. It should be an enormous safety improvement for that interchange!

[rookzie]

4 hours ago, PaulChinetti said:

For the life of me I do not understand the point of this, can someone enlighten me??

...

4 hours ago, GregH said:

https://www.tn.gov/tdot/projects/region-3/i-40-donelson-pike-interchange.html

 

I guess "better traffic flow" plus it gets BNA a bit more real estate to work with west of Donelson.

...

2 hours ago, donNdonelson2 said:

It eliminates left turns across oncoming traffic to enter the ramps to I-40. It should be an enormous safety improvement for that interchange!

 

GregH is correct, and DonNdonelson2 is dead-on.

When the current BNA terminal was opened in the mid-1980s, the connectors with I-40 were built only to the advantage of vehicular traffic toward and from the west ─ the direction of Briley Pkwy,  I-24, and downtown.  Nothing ever had been undertaken to accommodate the ever-increasing demands of traffic approaching BNA from the east on I-40, as only northbound Donelson Pk traffic headed east onto I-40 had an unimpeded advantage.  The existing I-40 / Donelson Pk interchange had never been updated beyond perhaps slight improvements to ramps.  That interchange was constructed in the early 1960s, as I recall when I was a kid.  Since 1961, the area north of the interchange toward Royal Pkwy, Elm Hill Pike, McCampbell Ave., and Lebanon Pk has mushroomed with commercial business and of course multifold traffic surge in a 60-year period.

Unless one has had to negotiate and navigate through that snake-pit interchange, then she or he might never be made aware of the congestion issue at Donelson Pk in general ─ much less that of the interchange, particularly if one is a transplant from another region and has had no occasion to have traversed that interchange.  That interchange remains as one of the few along I-40 east of downtown, and which has remained never updated for decades to meet increasing demands.  Spence Ln, Fesslers Ln, Hermitage Ave, and Fairfield Ave ─ the latter two being in the old central urban core ─ arguably are among the most outdated I-40 interchanges between downtown and Old Hickory Blvd in Hermitage.

This improvement is L-O-N-G overdue for both BNA and the Donelson Pk arterial itself.

Edited September 26, 2022 by rookzie

[donNdonelson2]

That Donelson Pike/I-40 interchange is a death trap in its current configuration, especially for drivers southbound on Donelson Pike attempting to turn left onto the I-40 eastbound ramp. With no traffic light to give a free & clear path, you just have to wait for a break in the oncoming flow and PRAY that the next oncoming car is only going the 50mph speed limit and not 65 or 70. The decision to wait or GO is like playing chicken! (It’s a terrifying intersection at busy traffic times of day.)

[AsianintheNations]

On 9/25/2022 at 9:04 PM, Sean blackdog said:

 

 

Thanks for the explanations re: reconfiguring as a diverging diamond at that location. I also like that this replaces the back entrance/exit from Economy Lot C (also not fun to navigate with the vehicle speeds and no traffic light) with the entryway across the existing bridge over I-40.

But can anyone explain what's going on with the 6-lane loop that is sketched in at the bottom left? Is Terminal Dr being re-routed along a larger perimeter?

[downtownresident]

32 minutes ago, AsianintheNations said:

Thanks for the explanations re: reconfiguring as a diverging diamond at that location. I also like that this replaces the back entrance/exit from Economy Lot C (also not fun to navigate with the vehicle speeds and no traffic light) with the entryway across the existing bridge over I-40.

But can anyone explain what's going on with the 6-lane loop that is sketched in at the bottom left? Is Terminal Dr being re-routed along a larger perimeter?

I believe that changes to the Terminal Access roads are planned as part of the New Horizons expansion. 

[rookzie]

downtownresident is right ─ a larger perimeter.

It's part of a long-planned upgrade the Terminal Access roadway loop.  That happens to be the northeast corner of that loop, corresponding to the lower right of the expanded illustration.  Essentially that portion of new roadway "Fattens" up the existing loop to encompass an expanded Lot A and economy Lot B, the latter lot of which has been somewhat of a sequestered annex, east of the existing Donelson Pk. alignment.

There also appears to be a revamped portal into and from the main (east) entry of Economy Lot C, to eliminate that "just in time" pull-off from Donelson Pk. at that hairpin interchange ramp from eastbound I-40 onto southbound Donelson Pk.  That should help conserve tire rubber from burnouts, while trying to exit from that lot.  I'm just a bit concerned with what appears to be a new ramp that taps off the existing main Terminal Dr. to I-40 E.  As the rendering shows, it doesn't appear to have adequate lead in approaching I-40 E, so I'm hoping that it's at least partially barrier-separated to channelize terminal traffic entering I-40 E, as I-40 E approaches the new Donelson Pk. interchange.  That's what was done for the SR-155 westbound ramp to I-65 N in Madison.

Edited September 28, 2022 by rookzie

[PaulChinetti]

All these great explanations and diagrams make me realize I have no idea about the roads around the airport. 

[GregH]

I had a Nashville sidewalk experience this evening that was a reminder of both how bad the Charlotte ave pedestrian experience is, and how inadequate the "Don't block my walk" ordinance ended up being. I was jogging up Charlotte and encountered one of those "Sidewalk closed, cross here" signs that are basically all that "Don't block my walk" created. But I didn't see any sidewalk closed anywhere ahead or behind or across the street or anywhere as far as I could see. So I just ignored the sign and kept on going. a full 1/4 mile later and past the crest of the hill I found that the sidewalk was completely torn up and being rebuilt by the developer of those townhomes at Charlotte and 440. I'm pretty sure the developer was doing exactly what they're supposed to do and putting signage at the nearest place to make an alternate crossing (even doing that seems to be unusual), but I don't think it's helping much in that instance. And more importantly, it's insane how far apart opportunities to cross the street are on Charlotte just a couple miles from downtown. That stretch, 37th to 31st, appears to be 2200 ft between crosswalks.

Anyway, my proposed solution to builders closing public space for extended periods is simple: make people who want to close public space pay a reasonable price for using it. Right now permits are like $10 a day to close streets or sidewalks. Make it $1000 a day or something otherwise meaningful, with exceptions for for public events like street fairs or whatever. Make the space valuable and I'm sure builders will be plenty able to plan around it to minimize cost, instead of just closing indefinitely for their convenience for relative pocket change.

 

[smeagolsfree]

10 hours ago, GregH said:

I had a Nashville sidewalk experience this evening that was a reminder of both how bad the Charlotte ave pedestrian experience is, and how inadequate the "Don't block my walk" ordinance ended up being. I was jogging up Charlotte and encountered one of those "Sidewalk closed, cross here" signs that are basically all that "Don't block my walk" created. But I didn't see any sidewalk closed anywhere ahead or behind or across the street or anywhere as far as I could see. So I just ignored the sign and kept on going. a full 1/4 mile later and past the crest of the hill I found that the sidewalk was completely torn up and being rebuilt by the developer of those townhomes at Charlotte and 440. I'm pretty sure the developer was doing exactly what they're supposed to do and putting signage at the nearest place to make an alternate crossing (even doing that seems to be unusual), but I don't think it's helping much in that instance. And more importantly, it's insane how far apart opportunities to cross the street are on Charlotte just a couple miles from downtown. That stretch, 37th to 31st, appears to be 2200 ft between crosswalks.

Anyway, my proposed solution to builders closing public space for extended periods is simple: make people who want to close public space pay a reasonable price for using it. Right now permits are like $10 a day to close streets or sidewalks. Make it $1000 a day or something otherwise meaningful, with exceptions for for public events like street fairs or whatever. Make the space valuable and I'm sure builders will be plenty able to plan around it to minimize cost, instead of just closing indefinitely for their convenience for relative pocket change.

 

You are preaching to the choir. I have said that all along. You make the fees so high it hurts, that way they get the work done faster or make other arrangements to keep the sidewalks open.

[Nashvillain]

12 hours ago, GregH said:

I had a Nashville sidewalk experience this evening that was a reminder of both how bad the Charlotte ave pedestrian experience is, and how inadequate the "Don't block my walk" ordinance ended up being. I was jogging up Charlotte and encountered one of those "Sidewalk closed, cross here" signs that are basically all that "Don't block my walk" created. But I didn't see any sidewalk closed anywhere ahead or behind or across the street or anywhere as far as I could see. So I just ignored the sign and kept on going. a full 1/4 mile later and past the crest of the hill I found that the sidewalk was completely torn up and being rebuilt by the developer of those townhomes at Charlotte and 440. I'm pretty sure the developer was doing exactly what they're supposed to do and putting signage at the nearest place to make an alternate crossing (even doing that seems to be unusual), but I don't think it's helping much in that instance. And more importantly, it's insane how far apart opportunities to cross the street are on Charlotte just a couple miles from downtown. That stretch, 37th to 31st, appears to be 2200 ft between crosswalks.

Anyway, my proposed solution to builders closing public space for extended periods is simple: make people who want to close public space pay a reasonable price for using it. Right now permits are like $10 a day to close streets or sidewalks. Make it $1000 a day or something otherwise meaningful, with exceptions for for public events like street fairs or whatever. Make the space valuable and I'm sure builders will be plenty able to plan around it to minimize cost, instead of just closing indefinitely for their convenience for relative pocket change.

 

While we're charging for taking up the public right of way, let's get rid of all free on-street parking. Free storage of private property on public space...? 

[PaulChinetti]

I've lost track of that bill that O'Connell and Sledge put forward to change the pricing and length of time that sidewalks and roads could be blocked. 

Not sure if it ever was voted on and passed?

[rookzie]

17 hours ago, PaulChinetti said:

All these great explanations and diagrams make me realize I have no idea about the roads around the airport. 

Oh believe you me ─ you really do.

You just don't know that you know, because its still in a state of fragmented abstraction to you.  In a way, I consider you lucky, because much of what you don't think you know about the roads around the airport probably stems from you're not having to deal with it ─ at least not on a periodic basis ─ and all the other roadways associated with that area in general.  That makes it a separation of concern for the most part.

But you DO know that you know about Chestnut, Humphreys, Hart, and Houston streets, as well as 4th, 3rd, and 2nd Ave S.  IMO that's probably one of the most disjointed, misaligned, diagonalized, and convoluted sub-districts in the core of the city.  It's as if those streets were "broke-off" from the branches of a hackberry tree and just strewn around the tracks where they could fit.  I'm sure you know more about WeHo than I, simply because you have had to deal with it as routine.

Edited September 28, 2022 by rookzie

[Nashvillain]

4 minutes ago, rookzie said:

Oh believe you me ─ you really do.

You just don't know that you know, because its still in a state of fragmented abstraction to you.  In a way, I consider you lucky, because much of what you don't think you know about the roads around the airport probably stems from you're not having to deal with it ─ at least not on a periodic basis ─ and all the other roadways associated with that area in general.  That makes it a separation of concern for the most part.

But you DO know that you know about Chestnut, Humphreys, Hart, and Houston streets, as well as 4th and 3rd Ave S.  IMO that's probably one of the most disjointed, misaligned, diagonalized, and convoluted sub-districts in the core of the city.  It's as if those streets were "broke-off" from the branches of a hackberry tree and just strewn around the tracks where they could fit.  I'm sure you know more about WeHo than I, simply because you have had to deal with it as routine.

I don't know what I now know about anything having to do with Nashville now where I live or where the airport is

[grilled_cheese]

3 hours ago, smeagolsfree said:

I have said that all along. You make the fees so high it hurts, that way they get the work done faster or make other arrangements to keep the sidewalks open.

But that could hurt business-as-usual and tourism!  A loss of even one net tourist is UNACCEPTABLE and could cripple our economy!!!!!

 

I finally used the QuickTicket app to ride the bus and it was super easy and will encourage me to ride the bus more.

[GregH]

3 hours ago, PaulChinetti said:

I've lost track of that bill that O'Connell and Sledge put forward to change the pricing and length of time that sidewalks and roads could be blocked. 

Not sure if it ever was voted on and passed?

Sounds like maybe the mayor's office has done something executively https://www.newschannel5.com/news/a-new-permit-policy-will-keep-nashville-sidewalks-and-bike-lanes-clear-from-construction 

[rookzie]

On 9/28/2022 at 11:12 AM, Nashvillain said:

I don't know what I now know about anything having to do with Nashville now where I live or where the airport is

That really threw a "Say what" moment upside the head..

I get the drift though.  I was just trying to give Paul assurance that he's not alone.  My experience with roadways that connect to airports in general can be expressed with one simple analogy ─ more as an OVERsimplified one.   Major airports are like institutions or incorporations in their own rights.  Unlike with intercity bus stations, where a street or two can be expected to serve somewhat static needs over extended periods of time, airports, including all related facilities, tend to undergo a need to expand at rather predictable rates several times through the generations.

In a manner of speaking, it might seem ironic that airports expansions usually mean more parking for more cars associated with the use of air travel, just as if it were a large suburban park and ride commuter-rail station.  It seems that no matter how many multilevel parking garages an airport authority builds on its grounds, that never seems to be enough.  The commercial airway network seems infinitely greater than that of passenger rail and intercity bus routes, and to a vast majority of travelers the choice and decision to fly, say, from BNA to Casper-Natrona County becomes a no-brainer in this day and age.  It wasn't that way when I was a teen, although it was well headed there even before then.   The roads that connect to these airport authority "hamlets", which morph into "boroughs" and then into "towns" so to speak, then turn into death traps, with congestion exacerbated by sprawl and indefinitely deferred infrastructure upgrades.  During my lifetime, the first direct access to Berry Field (BNA) was via either McGavock Pk. or from the Vultee Blvd. flyover from Murfreesboro Pk., the eastbound access to which began near what is now Thompson Ln.  Then a 2nd and "new" terminal was opened in 1961 with access from perhaps the now-oldest segment of Briley Pkwy.  The 3rd and current terminal was opened in 1987 with access from Donelson Pk. and an entirely new interchange from and to downtown Nashville.  BTW the Vultee Blvd. flyover bridge was dismantled beginning late 2017.  Only a short portion of that now blocked off east approach road remains.  Most Nashvillians (or Nashvillains ) of today don't' even know that Vultee Blvd. ever existed.

But then more roadway access to airports has been the American way, since early post-WWII days.  Very little has been undertaken to provide local-level alternative airport access, which by nature is increasingly difficult for those with more than a single carry-on parcel for air travel.  Travel for U.S. passenger-miles by automobile for all rubber-tired types of vehicles, including motorcycles, bus (intercity and transit) and light-duty trucks, amounted to over 7 times that of air travel, including domestic and otherwise (originating or terminating in the U.S.), in 2019.  Total passenger (intercity) rail passenger-miles totaled to less than 1-tenth of 1% of automobile miles for that year.  Overall, this helps to illustrate the ongoing interrelationship of the highways and surface roadways with airport access, since the vast majority of airport access entails some form of automotive travel and in most cases exclusively ─ as with BNA.

Edited September 30, 2022 by rookzie

[markhollin]

12th Ave. North & Grundy St. major sewer project continues.

Looking west from Grundy St., 1/2 block east of 12th Ave. North: