The Transportation and Mass Transit Megathread

[Sean blackdog]

1 hour ago, lmc123 said:

Trinity Lane exit from the study:

I live in Parkwood about 2 miles to Trinity Lane. Driver will be crazy. 

[PaulChinetti]

35 minutes ago, NissanvilleTitans said:

I try not to think about TDOT at all. Driving around the state makes me so mad. Why do we need a four lane road between Maynardville and Tazewell (you've probably never even heard of them)? So that the 2 cars that travel through there can pass each other? 

I was thinking the same thing this summer driving to Fall Creek Falls, It's a gigantic road through the middle of nowhere. 

The upkeep on those roads has to be massive out in the middle of nowhere.

[Luvemtall]

1 hour ago, NissanvilleTitans said:

 

I try not to think about TDOT at all. Driving around the state makes me so mad. Why do we need a four lane road between Maynardville and Tazewell (you've probably never even heard of them)? So that the 2 cars that travel through there can pass each other? 

While a drive down i75 (not sure if tdot is responsible for it) is so congested, you can't ever get up to the speed limit.

I can't stand it. Put the money where it needs to go. As PaulChinetti says: make use of raised light rail. The metro areas NEED it. Earl and Ethel driving from Newport to Greenville can wait to pass each other later.

 

Funny thing is Earl and Ethel don’t drive pass 35 , takes them an hour to go to the local dollar general

[PruneTracy]

23 minutes ago, PaulChinetti said:

The upkeep on those roads has to be massive out in the middle of nowhere.

Not really, rural roads with open drainage systems are fairly low-maintenance. Most of TDOT's maintenance funds go to paving and bridge repair and the empty rural roads are low on the paving priority list.

Understand too a lot of these roads were specifically determined by legislature, particularly the four-lane divided roads that connect county seats (Maynardsville and Tazewell are the county seats of Union and Claiborne Counties, respectively). State Route 111 from Cookeville to Chattanooga (the empty road to Fall Creek Falls State Park) was mandated by legislation.

TDOT wants the flexibility to enter into P3s because it gives them the opportunity to self-finance (or more accurately have the private entity self-finance) major roadway projects in the urban areas. They won't be toll roads, they will more likely be HOT/express lanes and other projects that include free general-purpose lanes. P3s can include 20-year (or whatever time limit) tolling schemes after which the roadway becomes free, but this was already studied by TDOT some years ago and is a political no-go. Rightly IMO as we've seen what happens in other states when they get the authority to toll, the tolls never go away. They're like taxes.

If you all want mass transit P3s then you have to have a schematic that allows a private partner to come in and self-fund; i.e., it has to be profitable in some fashion even if the state is financing/donating ROW or otherwise removing regulatory hurdles. As it stands the P3 projects will include some provisions for mass transit such as bus lanes.

[Luvemtall]

2 hours ago, PruneTracy said:

Understand too a lot of these roads were specifically determined by legislature, particularly the four-lane divided roads that connect county seats (Maynardsville and Tazewell are the county seats of Union and Claiborne Counties, respectively). State Route 111 from Cookeville to Chattanooga (the empty road to Fall Creek Falls State Park) was mandated by legislation.

But yet Hwy 231 remains a two lane , from Lebanon to Murfreesboro! As I said earlier in this tread , it’s all political. It’s what the legislature wants, not what’s needed. There’s no way in hell, that they need a 4 lane anywhere near Union or Claiborne Counties. 

[lmc123]

4 hours ago, Luvemtall said:

But yet Hwy 231 remains a two lane , from Lebanon to Murfreesboro! As I said earlier in this tread , it’s all political. It’s what the legislature wants, not what’s needed. There’s no way in hell, that they need a 4 lane anywhere near Union or Claiborne Counties. 

Some of those US/TN highways are funded by Congress. There's something called the Appalachian Development Highway System that goes back decades so federal DOT has been providing funding for that through each State's DOT as well. Not sure if this particular 4 lane is included or not but wouldn't be surprised. 

[MLBrumby]

That's a good point, and one which has required certain roads built in certain location, such as the bypass (US64) around Cleveland, TN. I believe "Corridor J" from US27 to TN111 is also a product of the APD program. I wonder if it's still necessary, but that is a federal program. I'm only somewhat familiar with the roads in this part of the state and not sure there are any in Middle Tennessee. 

[smeagolsfree]

You sort of have to put it into perspective of usage vs cost peer person. How many people use certain roads and how much upkeep do they really need. The population of both counties combined is around 52k. If you take just Union County, that is only 3k more that Freddie’s district.

[colemangaines]

I wanted to follow up on the new bus service to/from ATL. I took it round trip for Thanksgiving and it was 10/10 a great experience. I'd much prefer regular intercity train service in America, but this seems like a much more realistic option that could be widely available in the short-term.
 

Pickup was in front of the Omni hotel. I appreciate how the routes are from city center to city center, while an airport is typically far outside a city. Check in took about 5 seconds. I showed them my drivers license, they checked it against the passenger list, and I walked on.

 

2+1 seating layout. Overhead storage comparable to an airplane. The seats were extremely comfortable. Often on flights I try to nap and fail, but this ride is the first trip I've ever had where I tried to stay awake and failed. Power outlets and wifi are available for free. The wifi was slow-ish but I was able to stream a movie with no problems.

Tons and tons of leg room. I'm 5' 8" and my feet could barely reach the seat in front if I stretched out. There's also a fold-down leg rest and a tray table that attaches to your armrests. The seat reclines A LOT. I didn't have anyone in front of me but it would probably be annoying to be behind somebody fully reclined.



As soon as I got settled the attendant unloaded all of these freebies on me. The things on the left are an eye mask and an inflatable neck pillow.

Dinner, which was also free. I didn't know what to expect for bus food but it was very tasty. The attendant also had a snack/drink basket he brought through frequently, and you could take whatever you wanted for free. Tea and coffee were available on request.



Hot towel after dinner, made me feel all fancy. Also after dark the bus was VERY blue and it's a little off putting.



It was difficult to get a good picture but the bathroom was VERY nice. I couldn't believe this was on a bus.

Edited December 3, 2022 by colemangaines
grammar

[Bos2Nash]

On 12/1/2022 at 11:40 AM, markhollin said:

TDOT does realize that many other cities around the country are removing these right? because they realize their investment 50 years ago was bad and did awful things to communities.

[NissanvilleTitans]

Is tdot in charge of i75? It needs to be widened desperately. The entire section between knoxville and Chattanooga is always congested. It's hard to even get up to the speed limit during the entire section.

[tragenvol]

10 hours ago, PaulChinetti said:

I was thinking the same thing this summer driving to Fall Creek Falls, It's a gigantic road through the middle of nowhere. 

The upkeep on those roads has to be massive out in the middle of nowhere.

If you're referring to Hwy 111, thanks to the ARC's, Appalachian  Regional Commission, Cooridor J and its partnership with the state of Tennessee; we have a great roadway from Kentucky through the Upper Cumberland to Chattanooga linking the area to Lexington, Atlanta and beyond.  Not all that long ago, it was proposed to become I175...however not likely to happen in the next generation or two...if ever.

2 hours ago, lmc123 said:

Some of those US/TN highways are funded by Congress. There's something called the Appalachian Development Highway System that goes back decades so federal DOT has been providing funding for that through each State's DOT as well. Not sure if this particular 4 lane is included or not but wouldn't be surprised. 

It is part of Corridor J; Tennessee's link to the ARC's ADHS system....a federal and state partnership to spur econcomic development in the states making up the Appalachian region.

[tragenvol]

2 hours ago, MLBrumby said:

That's a good point, and one which has required certain roads built in certain location, such as the bypass (US64) around Cleveland, TN. I believe "Corridor J" from US27 to TN111 is also a product of the APD program. I wonder if it's still necessary, but that is a federal program. I'm only somewhat familiar with the roads in this part of the state and not sure there are any in Middle Tennessee. 

The ARC's defined region include the easternmost counties from Middle Tennessee.

[markhollin]

Some more interchange plans.

I-65/Wedgwood Ave:

I-24/Thompson Lane/Briley Parkway:

I-40 west inner belt exit/entrance ramps:

[MagicPotato]

1 hour ago, markhollin said:

Some more interchange plans.

I-65/Wedgwood Ave:

I-24/Thompson Lane/Briley Parkway:

I-40 west inner belt exit/entrance ramps:

I-40 west inner belt has so many unnecessary ramps and exits. It's crazy how it took tdot this long to notice.  In comparison to other cities, it's mindboggling how this design was approved in the first place.  Tdot should really convert that area into a tunnel with some kind of park/recreational area on top like the one in Atlanta. I think it's called the Lenox Road overpass or something.  

[smeagolsfree]

Funny that this popped up on WSMV.

https://www.wsmv.com/2022/12/02/tennessee-drivers-react-tdots-proposed-paid-express-lanes/

Really too bad, but drivers are going to have to get use to pay to drive. I do not really like tolls but I do see the need. I took the Florida Turnpike from Ocala to Ft Lauderdale, however it was still a Charlie Foxtrot if you know what I mean through Orlando. A real mess during rush hour and Nashville has nothing on Orlando as fas as traffic.

I think I can continue the turnpike further south to Homestead as I have to check the map, but I 95 is still a total Cluster even with the toll lanes. The majority of old timers in this state have no idea how good they have it compared to other states. If Tennessee wants to have state of the art highways, then they are going to have to get creative as far as funding. 

[chc3]

I lived in Orange County CA for 30 years and loved the 4 toll roads built in the 90s. I lived in Dana Point and could get to the OC Airport in under 20 minutes in the morning on the toll road vs. 45 minutes on the 405. 

[Baronakim]

On 12/2/2022 at 8:39 AM, NissanvilleTitans said:

I try not to think about TDOT at all. Driving around the state makes me so mad. Why do we need a four lane road between Maynardville and Tazewell (you've probably never even heard of them)? So that the 2 cars that travel through there can pass each other? 

While a drive down i75 (not sure if tdot is responsible for it) is so congested, you can't ever get up to the speed limit.

I can't stand it. Put the money where it needs to go. As PaulChinetti says: make use of raised light rail. The metro areas NEED it. Earl and Ethel driving from Newport to Greenville can wait to pass each other later.

Is this Tazewell road a currently planned widening?  Highway 33 is a state road ,so TDOT is certainly involved.  However, the bridges over the lakes look fairly modern and are not steel truss span old fashioned ones at  all.  Widening them would be very expensive I would think.  As to I75, The recent Chatanooga  rework has really helped.  Generally, I have had no trouble at all exceeding the speed limit on it from GA to VA.  Only at rush hours have  there have been backups and slowdown from my experience.  While light rail would be great, the costs are immense compaired to widening existing largely rural roads.  The money spent on the Tazwell widening would be a pittance compared to obtaining R.O.W. and construction in Metros.  If I had ONE project in TN that I would like to see IMO more critical than Lightrail, it would be vastly widening I40 from east of Monteagle mountain into Chatanooga, especially the last few miles by the Tennessee River.

Edited December 3, 2022 by Baronakim

[PaulChinetti]

I think there are plenty of very wide roadways in our cities that we could on grade or even elevated light rail on.  Nolensville and 8th come to mind.
 

Right down the turning lane, elevate it and where ever a stop is, increase zoning to high density mixed commercial/residential within a 10 minute walk. 

[PruneTracy]

On 12/3/2022 at 9:44 AM, Baronakim said:

Is this Tazewell road a currently planned widening?  Highway 33 is a state road ,so TDOT is certainly involved.  However, the bridges over the lakes look fairly modern and are not steel truss span old fashioned ones at  all.  Widening them would be very expensive I would think.

They will probably just twin the bridge over Norris Lake. I'd be more worried about the ridge gaps they are traversing, if I remember correctly there are two decent ones on SR 33 on the way to Tazewell.

One more note about rural East Tennessee. The problem TDOT has, or the state in general, is that there are a ton of decently-sized cities spread out over a large area with only one/two Interstates traversing the area. We don't have this problem in Middle Tennessee because virtually all of our large cities are near an Interstate that was already going to/through Nashville (partially because the presence of the Interstates caused the cities to grow), and West Tennessee is much less densely-populated. Part of this is because of what you might say is poor regional planning, as the state/cities attracted various industries that now rely on a haphazard roadway network to move goods. Or maybe blame TVA for that. But it was like that before the region industrialized, and the terrain doesn't help very much either.

The point being, there is a lot more volume on these rural roadways than you might realize, and a significant portion of it is commercial traffic. SR 33 from Maynardsville to Tazewell is running up to 12,000 vehicles per day which is getting tight for a two-lane road, much less one with steep grades and a number of cross streets / driveways.

[Archibum]

I roughly modeled up the Thompson Lane/Nolensville Pk proposal just for fun. Attached kmz file if anyone wants to look at it in Google Earth.

Thompson and Nolensville.kmz

[PaulChinetti]

That is some dystopian car hell stuff right there. 

2065, You are stuck on the 7th deck overpass overlooking the park, wishing you could lay in the grass and enjoy the sun.

That whole intersection is just bad, such massively wasted space. 

[Nathan_in_DC]

On 12/2/2022 at 9:39 AM, NissanvilleTitans said:

I try not to think about TDOT at all. Driving around the state makes me so mad. Why do we need a four lane road between Maynardville and Tazewell (you've probably never even heard of them)? So that the 2 cars that travel through there can pass each other? 

While a drive down i75 (not sure if tdot is responsible for it) is so congested, you can't ever get up to the speed limit.

I can't stand it. Put the money where it needs to go. As PaulChinetti says: make use of raised light rail. The metro areas NEED it. Earl and Ethel driving from Newport to Greenville can wait to pass each other later.

Wait until you think about the widening and straightening projects on Highway 13 between Linden and Lobelville in Perry County...the least densely populated county in the state, and one of the least densely populated areas east of the Mississippi. Or the four-laning of 13 five miles south of Wavelry, not even getting close to connecting it to I-40 with 4-lanes. Millions spent on an almost complete rebuild of large stretches of lightly travelled roadway where the simple addition of a couple of passing lanes would have sufficed, effectively nothing more than poorly conceived, planned, and executed vanity projects. Ostensibly it was to encourage development and boost the local manufacturing economy, but it's frankly too little, too late for that to be of any real impact.

[MagicPotato]

Another tidbit, there's no bridges that connects from East Nashville to Briley. The area east of the Cumberland River is in a need of a few connecting points. The only access points from East Nashville to Briley is the Gallatin Pike S interchange.   The Eastern part of Nashville in general has terrible connecting points with Wilson County, excluding I40 and Lebanon Pike. 

[GregH]

I guess historically there was a ferry at McGavock. For better or worse, I don't think there's a good spot for a bridge these days. McGavock seems like the most obvious place but the local residents would (fairly, in my opinion) surely raise hell at the idea.