The Transportation and Mass Transit Megathread

[MLBrumby]

I recall the state of Oregon (about 4 years ago) trying to figure out how to charge EV owners more to compensate for the commensurate drop in the gas tax revenues.  I'm not familiar with their resolution, but I can gather from their experience that states will start to "go after" EV drivers for whatever drop they see in the gas tax revenues.  Overall, I understand that anyone who operates any vehicle on the roads must pay for the privilege; so the rise in EVs will only give the powers in charge another opening to raise the rates on everyone.  History is the precedent. 

[PruneTracy]

16 hours ago, lmc123 said:

Newer EV SUV's and Trucks weigh more (sometimes up to 30%) than their ICE counterparts because of the batteries. With that weight difference, the impact of road damage and maintenance needs to also be taken into account. 

I think the difference is pretty negligible from an ESAL perspective.

FYI trucks (tractor-trailer) are the biggest contributors to pavement wear, one truck running at the 40-ton weight limit is about the same as 1,100 passenger cars in terms of wear to flexible pavement.

[rookzie]

On 12/9/2022 at 12:07 PM, smeagolsfree said:

 

Come on guys, how short is your memory????? Half of this crap has been tried before.  I do not know who came up with this survey, but they must have just moved here.

…

…

This has been influenced by the mayor's office I am sure that has always pushed buses as a last and final resort. The buses do not run often, and they eliminated the downtown circulator which was free. That was the best thing they had going downtown. Why they eliminated it is beyond me. They should have expanded it. That would have solved a lot of the problems they are having issues with downtown. The only issue they had with the circulator was they had it running up and down Demonbreun which ended up being closed half of the time due to events.

….

 

Just wanted to add to this, in total agreement BTW.

As I recall, the Free Ride circulator Blue and Green routes were introduced during the Karl Dean administration, when Paul Ballard headed the MTA.  The effort to rebrand the MTA as WeGo Transit, including the Music City Star, began back around early-mid 2018 or so.  That coincided with the failed Transit Referendum, which followed soon after the exposure of then-Mayor Megan Barry’s unsurprising resignation.

Without much notice, WeGo announced that it would be instituting major service cutbacks, with one of the most notable being the elimination of the Free Ride circulators.   Suddenly, it was announced that the city’s financial state had been revealed as “untenable”, and that funding cuts meant undoing much of what little perceived progress that had transpired during the previous 10 years.

That affected not only downtown riders, but also those drivers of the  N° 29 Jefferson St. route, which had become an extension of the Free Ride Green Route in 2016.  IMO that had been one of the most outreaching of transit efforts by extending the fare-free privilege to a core sector community which needed it the most — along the entire Jefferson St. Corridor, including John Merritt Blvd.

It’s not to discount the potential for providing such privileges to other routes serving similar demographics.  Mayor Barry also had proposed such service ailing the 12-South route (N° 17 12 th Ave S), particularly for those riders between Edgehill and downtown.  Some routes were realigned and combined with others (N° 8 8th Ave S with N° 1 Vine Hill [via Bransford Ave]), while some were eliminated altogether (N° 2 Belmont).  

It didn’t help that the city’s liberal policy to developers to permit random and frequent closures of downtown streets, often led to unpredictable reliability of the Free Rides —  never showing up for uninformed riders — and the MTA rarely ever posted sufficient (if any at all) notices of detours in clear view at the stops.  At this point time, it may appear that past “progress” (as it were) never happened at all, and that long-range plans for more ambitious, high-capacity transit have all but languished.

Edited December 21, 2022 by rookzie

[smeagolsfree]

13 hours ago, rookzie said:

Just wanted to add to this, in total agreement BTW.

As I recall, the Free Ride circulator Blue and Green routes were introduced during the Karl Dean administration, when Paul Ballard headed the MTA.  The effort to rebrand the MTA as WeGo Transit, including the Music City Star, back around early-mid 2018 or so.  That coincided with the failed Transit Referendum, which followed soon after the exposure of then-Mayor Megan Barry’s unsurprising resignation.

Without much notice, WeGo announced that it would be instituting major service cutbacks, with one of the most notable being the elimination of the Free Ride circulators.   Suddenly, it was announced that the city’s financial state had been revealed as “untenable”, and that funding cuts meant undoing much of what little perceived progress that had transpired during the previous 10 years.

That affected not only downtown riders, but also those drivers of the  N° 29 Jefferson St. route, which had become an extension of the Free Ride Green Route in 2016.  IMO that had been one of the most outreaching of transit efforts by extending the fare-free privilege to a core sector community which needed it the most — along the entire Jefferson St. Corridor, including John Merritt Blvd.

It’s not to discount the potential for providing such privileges to other routes serving similar demographics.  Mayor Barry also had proposed such service ailing the 12-South route (N° 17 12 th Ave S), particularly for those riders between Edgehill and downtown.  Some routes were realigned and combined with others (N° 8 8th Ave S with N° 1 Vine Hill [via Bransford Ave]), while some were eliminated altogether (N° 2 Belmont).  

It didn’t help that the city’s liberal policy to developers to permit random and frequent closures of downtown streets, often led to unpredictable reliability of the Free Rides —  never showing up for uninformed riders — and the MTA rarely ever posted sufficient (if any at all) notices of detours in clear view at the stops.  At this point time, it may appear that past “progress” (as it were) never happened at all, and that long-range plans for more ambitious, high-capacity transit have all but languished.

Even if they had charged a nominal fee, it would have been worth it. Again, every time we change mayors it's like changing dirty underwear. It seems they have to get what they don't like about the last mayor out of their nose. I guarantee that if, (and it probably will happen) when Copper loses the election next year there will be a bunch of changes by whomever the new mayor is. The problem now is that if Cooper could not micromanage them, they were out of here. That is why he has a bunch of weak dept heads now and lost a lot of really good people. I think the Planning person may be the exception because Cooper does not know much about that and is letting her do her job. We don't know for sure.

[markhollin]

Metro Government has purchased the former CVS Pharmacy site at 3801 Hillsboro Pike for $7.35 million.  It will be razed in order to create a single intersection instead of two between Crestmoor Rd. and Glen Echo Rd. at Hillsboro Pike. No word on when work will get started.  CVS has relocated to a new site to the north of the intersection which has just opened. 

More behind the Nashville Post paywall here:

https://www.nashvillepost.com/business/development/metro-pays-7-35m-for-green-hills-commercial-site/article_2af601d4-8094-11ed-bcf9-83bb48b34e38.html

[PaulChinetti]

I like it. And then sell the extra space to recoup some money?

[rookzie]

9 hours ago, markhollin said:

Metro Government has purchased the former CVS Pharmacy site at 3801 Hillsboro Pike for $7.35 million.  It will be razed in order to create a single intersection instead of two between Crestmoor Rd. and Glen Echo Rd. at Hillsboro Pike. No word on when work will get started.  CVS has relocated to a new site to the north of the intersection which has just opened. 

...
...

...Probably around 2030 or so, about the same amount of elapsed time as it took for conception and approval...

[Bos2Nash]

20 hours ago, markhollin said:

Metro Government has purchased the former CVS Pharmacy site at 3801 Hillsboro Pike for $7.35 million.  It will be razed in order to create a single intersection instead of two between Crestmoor Rd. and Glen Echo Rd. at Hillsboro Pike. No word on when work will get started.  CVS has relocated to a new site to the north of the intersection which has just opened. 

More behind the Nashville Post paywall here:

https://www.nashvillepost.com/business/development/metro-pays-7-35m-for-green-hills-commercial-site/article_2af601d4-8094-11ed-bcf9-83bb48b34e38.html

"Possible mall access closing"?? If they don't cancel that mall access point it would create chaos. It is a MUST to close that access point lol

[BnaBreaker]

4 hours ago, Bos2Nash said:

"Possible mall access closing"?? If they don't cancel that mall access point it would create chaos. It is a MUST to close that access point lol

Right?  I mean if they don't that would almost defeat the purpose of the whole project to begin with. 

[Nash_12South]

I agree the access point should close, but a good number of folks (including me sometimes) use it as a quicker way to get into the mall parking lot. The trade off is that it will create more of a back up at the main entry point 100 ft. or so down the road.

Edited December 22, 2022 by Nash_12South

[PaulChinetti]

Take it on around to the back. Where the garages are. 
 

The amount the mall backs up Hillsboro seems negligent… on someone’s part. 

[Nash_12South]

I almost always park in the back garages but when coming from Glen Echo, to make the current jog to get onto Crestmoor can mean sitting through a couple of lights while a left turn and darting into the lots from the “access point” can be quicker. The new set up will be great for those coming from Glen Echo. 

[smeagolsfree]

I never access GH or GH Mall from that side. For a number of years, I have come in from Estes & Abbott Martin and leave the same way. At Christmas I just avoid it.

 

[markhollin]

12th Ave. South bicycle lane cuts nearly complete for the 1.5 mile stretch between Division St. and Lawrence Ave.

Looking north from 12th South around the Lawrence Ave. area:

[AsianintheNations]

On 12/21/2022 at 12:22 PM, Bos2Nash said:

"Possible mall access closing"?? If they don't cancel that mall access point it would create chaos. It is a MUST to close that access point lol

Agreed. Oh the inconvenience of having to use any of the other at least eight entrances (unofficial count) to the mall ...

It still boggles my mind that the plot of land can be worth over $7 million dollars, but the best they can think of is to rebuild the exact same cookie-cutter 1-story CVS on the adjacent plot of land...

[AsianintheNations]

Non-sequitur but I went to the Nashville Zoo today with my family. They required advance-purchase timed admission tickets - not a holdover from pandemic policies like other places, but due to limited parking as they build a new parking garage. Notably, when I went to purchase the tickets online, there was NOT an option to remove the $8 parking fee - you could select zero people, but must have at least one car. Good to know that Lightning McQueen or your favorite Transformer can be accommodated at the zoo.

Given that the zoo's visitor capacity is far greater than its parking capacity (the lot was nearly full when I went, but the people in the zoo were sparse), you would think they'd be financially motivated to put a notice online encouraging people to, you know, take the 52 bus that stops at the zoo's entryway, use a rideshare/taxi service, or God forbid ride a bike or motorcycle that would take up a fraction of a parking spot. And exempt them having to buy advance tickets. But if you look at the website, the only groups exempted from buying advance tickets are those with free admission due to special discounts, or those "without internet or a credit/debit card," and even then walk-up tickets are "not recommended or guaranteed." Their FAQ's solution? "If you didn't arrive in a vehicle, you can request a refund at the Ticket Booth upon arrival to the Zoo." So, an extra step to discourage people helping to un-clog the reduced-capacity parking lot, after they've trekked the unnecessarily long 1/2 mile driveway to get to the Zoo entrance.

Sigh.

 

[Sean blackdog]

Today this evening. 
Working on new Broadway Viaduct Bridge. 
700 feet long bridge. 
Hope completion on Oct. 31, 2023. 

Edited January 3, 2023 by Sean blackdog

[smeagolsfree]

I just made a post on another site and did a little research, so you folks do not feel all left out in the cold.

Nashville has one commuter rail line, better than some cities!

Cities with no commuter rail:
San Antonio, TX
Tampa / St. Pete / Clearwater, FL
Indianapolis, IN
Columbus, OH
Raleigh-Durham, NC
Oklahoma City, OK Streetcar recently broke ground and is under construction

Memphis, TN
Richmond, VA
Louisville, KY
Rochester, NY
Milwaukee, WI 2-mile loop streetcar network

Detroit, MI There is a 2.9 mile people-mover loop in the downtown area, and the new Q-Line service is a 3-mile streetcar.

Orlando, FL Sun Rail to Miami

Cincinnati, OH Cinci streetcar system which broke ground in 2012, and opened in 2015.

Kansas City, MO The new KC streetcar opened in 2015. Very limited downtown

[chc3]

Doesn’t Memphis have a downtown trolley loop? I realize it’s not really commuter rail.

https://www.matatransit.com/assets/2/6/Trolley_map_3_19_Rev2.pdf

Edited January 3, 2023 by chc3

[smeagolsfree]

Could be, some of the info could be a bit dated. The info is only as good as the person entering the info.

[AsianintheNations]

22 hours ago, chc3 said:

Doesn’t Memphis have a downtown trolley loop? I realize it’s not really commuter rail.

Yeah, I think it closed for a couple years but reopened quite recently with newer vehicles. On that map, only the Main St. line is indicated as being a rail line, the other two lines are still shuttles. This article suggests that as of last month, the Madison Avenue and Riverfront lines are still awaiting the return of actual trolley service: https://www.localmemphis.com/article/news/community/memphians-wait-for-the-return-of-trolleys-on-madison-and-riverfront/522-1d141098-b707-4876-8b21-f4fdba290674

Edited January 4, 2023 by AsianintheNations

[nashville born]

On 1/3/2023 at 8:42 AM, smeagolsfree said:

I just made a post on another site and did a little research, so you folks do not feel all left out in the cold.

Nashville has one commuter rail line, better than some cities!

Cities with no commuter rail:
San Antonio, TX
Tampa / St. Pete / Clearwater, FL
Indianapolis, IN
Columbus, OH
Raleigh-Durham, NC
Oklahoma City, OK Streetcar recently broke ground and is under construction

Memphis, TN
Richmond, VA
Louisville, KY
Rochester, NY
Milwaukee, WI 2-mile loop streetcar network

Detroit, MI There is a 2.9 mile people-mover loop in the downtown area, and the new Q-Line service is a 3-mile streetcar.

Orlando, FL Sun Rail to Miami

Cincinnati, OH Cinci streetcar system which broke ground in 2012, and opened in 2015.

Kansas City, MO The new KC streetcar opened in 2015. Very limited downtown

Thanks for this; good info.  The one thing that strikes me about this list is there really are no significant "business centers" of "burgeoning markets" listed.  And so, while I think it's great we're doing better than these cities with regard to at least having one commuter rail, I also say, how do we compare to the cities we're truly trying to compete with or be measured against?  So funny that I saw this because I came here to post some similar info as you did.  Posting it after making this comment.

[nashville born]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_United_States_rapid_transit_systems_by_ridership

According to these numbers, 3.7 billion people annually ride mass transit in only the top 15 busiest U.S. systems.  That's a lot of people.  That's a LOT of people.   And it's a LOT of revenue.   I've got to believe that Nashvillians who think mass transit might introduce an "undesirable" element could perhaps rethink their perceptions when presented with such.

Interestingly, even if not unexpectedly, the south has but two of the top 15:  Atlanta and Miami.

Come on, Nashville.  Yes, we're already way behind.  Every day we wait (waste) is just another day further behind.    I'll keep paraphrasing Henry Ford, if you need a machine, and you don't buy it, invariable you will have paid the price and still not have it.

For some reason, this song jumped in my head...you lug sixteen tons, whatta you get?  Another day older and deeper in debt.  Perhaps that's us relative to traffic issues...another day of growth and deeper in traffic debt...

Edited January 4, 2023 by nashville born

[chc3]

We made a big mistake not linking BNA to downtown with an express train. I dream of commuter rail to Spring Hill, with stops in between. Lines to Murfreesboro and Clarksville seem like winners, and how cool would a western light rail line be through Midtown and on to Belle Meade ending up in the burgeoning Bellevue area? Of course, there will be no support from the state or cooperation from CSX, so we can enjoy increasing gridlock and air pollution.

[MagicPotato]

5 hours ago, nashville born said:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_United_States_rapid_transit_systems_by_ridership

According to these numbers, 3.7 billion people annually ride mass transit in only the top 15 busiest U.S. systems.  That's a lot of people.  That's a LOT of people.   And it's a LOT of revenue.   I've got to believe that Nashvillians who think mass transit might introduce an "undesirable" element could perhaps rethink their perceptions when presented with such.

Interestingly, even if not unexpectedly, the south has but two of the top 15:  Atlanta and Miami.

Come on, Nashville.  Yes, we're already way behind.  Every day we wait (waste) is just another day further behind.    I'll keep paraphrasing Henry Ford, if you need a machine, and you don't buy it, invariable you will have paid the price and still not have it.

For some reason, this song jumped in my head...you lug sixteen tons, whatta you get?  Another day older and deeper in debt.  Perhaps that's us relative to traffic issues...another day of growth and deeper in traffic debt...

Only if the Nashville Star was more convenient to use... The problem is that the hours are wonky and there's not enough stops to make it convenient. It'll be nice if the Nashville Star connected directly to BNA.