The Transportation and Mass Transit Megathread

[PaulChinetti]

Does LRT need to be all level or can it handle hills?

[rookzie]

On 2/3/2023 at 11:45 PM, PaulChinetti said:

Does LRT need to be all level or can it handle hills?

Generally, locomotive-hauled trains require gentle gradients for both adhesion and safety, but such trains for short consists (as for the WeGo Star with a locomotive at one end only), can handle somewhat steeper grades.

A main advantage with both LRT and HRT and even commuter railroads which  run exclusively EMUs (self-propelled electric multiple units) is that the gradients can be significantly steeper, although not like roller coasters ─ of course.  These can be around 7%, whereas with freight lines it usually is limited to less than 1.5%. 

When I was a kid living in NW DC during the late '50s and early '60s, we used to sneak and use the streetcar as our "ski-lift", for street roller-skates.  Two of us at a time would sneak up and grab onto the rear of the streetcar, as it ascended (Upshur Street on the old Nº 74 route to Soldiers Home).   We'd brave it even further by cocking our skates to follow the flangeways of the street rail.  Since there were no turns (or switches), we didn't have to worry with getting thrown off by a switch point or by the swing of the jackknifing rear end on sharp turns on the way up.  Of course, we'd sometimes get shoo'd off by nosey porch onlookers and following automobiles, but it did save us time and energy from having to walk up that street, in order to cruise back down.
(and to think I'm still here now...)

Edited February 5 by rookzie

[markhollin]

Lane closures are starting for Broadway Viaduct reconstruction.

Looking east from intersection of Broadway and 12th Ave:

Looking west from intersection of Broadway and 9th Ave. North:

[lmc123]

Gov's budget dropped tonight. Key highlights for infrastructure:

"To address infrastructure needs, the administration is proposing legislation to address Tennessee’s transportation system. The legislation proposes the use of public-private partnerships (P3s), allows for alternative project delivery, and brings the electric vehicle fee into parity with gasoline vehicles. Further, the proposed legislation establishes the Transportation Modernization Fund. This budget allocates $3,000,000,000 into the fund from the general fund for transportation projects that address congestion in all four of the Department of Transportation’s regions."

[UrbanWes03]

52 minutes ago, lmc123 said:

Gov's budget dropped tonight. Key highlights for infrastructure:

"To address infrastructure needs, the administration is proposing legislation to address Tennessee’s transportation system. The legislation proposes the use of public-private partnerships (P3s), allows for alternative project delivery, and brings the electric vehicle fee into parity with gasoline vehicles. Further, the proposed legislation establishes the Transportation Modernization Fund. This budget allocates $3,000,000,000 into the fund from the general fund for transportation projects that address congestion in all four of the Department of Transportation’s regions."

Does that money for transportation projects include transit? He said he was focused on roads…of course…so that's why I'm asking.

[tragenvol]

11 hours ago, UrbanWes03 said:

Does that money for transportation projects include transit? He said he was focused on roads…of course…so that's why I'm asking.

Not specifically or at all unless it is included in the modernization fund to alleviate congestion in all four TDOT districts....at first glance.

[Luvemtall]

12 hours ago, UrbanWes03 said:

Does that money for transportation projects include transit? He said he was focused on roads…of course…so that's why I'm asking.

It’s for a 10 lane superhighway in Scott County! Come on, do any of you think any of it will come to  Nashville? 

[downtownresident]

3 minutes ago, Luvemtall said:

It’s for a 10 lane superhighway in Scott County! Come on, do any of you think any of it will come to  Nashville? 

If I had to guess, all Nashville will get are private express lanes out to the burbs. If we are lucky, the downtown loop rebuild, or at least a phase of it, will be included. If we are unlucky, the awful proposed overpasses at various intersections will be the funded projects. 

[Luvemtall]

I was being a little sarcastic, I’m sorry for being that way . But it seems the current administration, and lawmakers are out to stick it to Nashville. If we see any of the items you mentioned, I will be shocked, and happy. Except for those overpasses!

[nashmoney]

Transforming transportation: TDOT's proposal for 'choice lanes,' $3 billion in road improvements

https://www.newschannel5.com/news/transforming-transportation-tdots-proposal-for-choice-lanes-3-billion-in-road-improvements

More studies, widening in rural areas, and 30 year buildouts. Projects would probably start in 2033 and complete in 2063, which by that time we will be due for more studies, even wider lanes, and more studies for the future. I'm being sarcastic on the dates, but that's how it feels when it comes to TDOT projects. 

No mention whatsoever of mass transit. 

Edited February 9 by nashmoney

[BnaBreaker]

5 hours ago, nashmoney said:

Transforming transportation: TDOT's proposal for 'choice lanes,' $3 billion in road improvements

https://www.newschannel5.com/news/transforming-transportation-tdots-proposal-for-choice-lanes-3-billion-in-road-improvements

More studies, widening in rural areas, and 30 year buildouts. Projects would probably start in 2033 and complete in 2063, which by that time we will be due for more studies, even wider lanes, and more studies for the future 

No mention whatsoever of mass transit. 

Ridiculous.  One step above just setting that money on fire.  Remember when these same folks were 'outraged' over the $160 million price tag for The Amp BRT line proposed by Mayor Karl Dean and said it was a waste of money??

Edited February 9 by BnaBreaker

[MLBrumby]

Coming from Georgia and travelling on their Interstates frequently, I see how fast GADOT does construction, and does it well. A 30-year buildout starting in 10 years!?  TDOT is a joke.  Debt financing, dummies! 

Edited February 9 by MLBrumby

[Luvemtall]

8 hours ago, MLBrumby said:

TDOT is a joke. 

I have asked this question before, is it TDOT that’s at fault? I’m not sure on that. I think it’s the bureaucratic hands that bind them. At least I would hope so, because otherwise it’s really lame. 
Tennessee is already 20 years behind the curve on infrastructure, we need major improvement Yesterday!! 

[lmc123]

10 hours ago, nashmoney said:

Transforming transportation: TDOT's proposal for 'choice lanes,' $3 billion in road improvements

https://www.newschannel5.com/news/transforming-transportation-tdots-proposal-for-choice-lanes-3-billion-in-road-improvements

More studies, widening in rural areas, and 30 year buildouts. Projects would probably start in 2033 and complete in 2063, which by that time we will be due for more studies, even wider lanes, and more studies for the future. I'm being sarcastic on the dates, but that's how it feels when it comes to TDOT projects. 

No mention whatsoever of mass transit. 

TDOT is proposing legislative changes that will speed up project delivery. On average it's 15 years right now. They are requesting legislative authority to do a "progressive design build" as opposed to the traditional "design bid build". They would also increase the ability to do more "design build" projects. See this fact sheet for more info:

https://www.tn.gov/content/dam/tn/tdot/build-with-us/Delivery-Method-One-Pagers-20.pdf

 

[BnaBreaker]

10 hours ago, MLBrumby said:

Coming from Georgia and travelling on their Interstates frequently, I see how fast GADOT does construction, and does it well. A 30-year buildout starting in 10 years!?  TDOT is a joke.  Debt financing, dummies! 

Exactly... and you already know my thoughts on the drive into Tennessee from Kentucky on I-65... it honestly feels like you're going back into time forty years... we're not talking Dubai or Singapore... we're talking friggin' Kentucky... and I know that TDOT is finally working on modernizing that stretch of road, but it'll take them twenty years to finish it, and when it is finished in 2045 or whatever, it'll still only be built up to 1989 standards.  By that time Kentucky will probably have robot state troopers while we still have Deputy Fife in his brown 1994 Crown Vic spinning his wheels in the dirt to catch speeders.  

Edited February 9 by BnaBreaker

[MLBrumby]

Even i75 in Ky is 3 lanes (each direction) nearly all the way from cin to Corbin… just 20 some miles from tn line. Amazing what a difference it makes to have the inside passing lane free of trucks. I have more to add about debt financing but can’t do that on my phone. Suffice it to say a  debt service coverage ratio of a mere .3 to the gas tax revenues would being in apx $250M to kick start several of the critical road projects… with about an additional $50m per year. 

Edited February 9 by MLBrumby

[markhollin]

More bollard installation on Lower Broadway, here between 3rd and 4th Avenues.

Looking east from intersection of 4th Ave. South and Broadway:

[Bos2Nash]

8 hours ago, markhollin said:

More bollard installation on Lower Broadway, here between 3rd and 4th Avenues.

Looking east from intersection of 4th Ave. South and Broadway:

I like the sidewalk widening, pedestrian improvement and all, but I really wish the bollards were better / more sturdy. I was walking around a week or two ago and I noticed the ones at 1st ave on the Acme side were already beat up pretty bad. Not sure if it is a VE choice or what, but I don’t see how these bollards are that protective if they bend and give so easily to vehicles. 

[Vrtigo]

1 hour ago, Bos2Nash said:

I like the sidewalk widening, pedestrian improvement and all, but I really wish the bollards were better / more sturdy. I was walking around a week or two ago and I noticed the ones at 1st ave on the Acme side were already beat up pretty bad. Not sure if it is a VE choice or what, but I don’t see how these bollards are that protective if they bend and give so easily to vehicles. 

I imagine it's a compromise between protecting pedestrians and not killing passengers of the moving vehicle... kind of like a modern car's "crumple zones" to help absorb the force of an impact.

Personally, I share your opinion: I'd rather these things be designed to shrug off basically any impact without any visible deformation. Granted, a friend involved in their installation mentioned to me that they are indeed very stout. Details in my memory are fuzzy and probably inaccurate, but I recall them saying it would take something like a 20-ton truck at high speed to completely demolish one.

[bnacincy]

3 hours ago, Bos2Nash said:

I like the sidewalk widening, pedestrian improvement and all, but I really wish the bollards were better / more sturdy. I was walking around a week or two ago and I noticed the ones at 1st ave on the Acme side were already beat up pretty bad. Not sure if it is a VE choice or what, but I don’t see how these bollards are that protective if they bend and give so easily to vehicles. 

Something looks wrong in that picture....They've put the bollards up a step-unlike the rest of the sidewalk extensions.

That could spell trouble for people who have "had a few".

[donNdonelson2]

21 minutes ago, bnacincy said:

Something looks wrong in that picture....They've put the bollards up a step-unlike the rest of the sidewalk extensions.

That could spell trouble for people who have "had a few".

I think there is an ADA handicap ramp that factors into to odd look of the bollard placement.

(but my eye could be fooling me with what exactly is going on here)

Edited February 12 by donNdonelson2
Second thoughts

[lmc123]

For your reading pleasure... the proposed transportation modernization act of 2023 which allocated $3B across the State, new bid processes, EV fees, structure, etc. Also the fiscal note which somewhat summarizes the 30 page bill.

 

HB0321_HB321memo003592.pdf HB0321_Subcommittee Amendment (003592).PDF

[PaulChinetti]

Instead of EV fees and wheel taxes etc. I saw a good point that vehicles should all be charged by weight, because the more a vehicles weighs the more damage it does to a roadway.

[colemangaines]

Has anyone else seen the Brightline train by Union station? I’m assuming it’s just on its way to or from Florida but it was a real shock to see a high speed passenger train sitting in downtown. 

[AsianintheNations]

Wish I caught the Brightline train downtown! Speaking of trains ... given the recent derailments/collisions in the news (Ohio and now Houston), I was reminded that I've always been puzzled by the lack of protective arms at some major railroad crossings in Nashville, while many at-grade crossings with smaller streets do have those arms. Is it based on frequency of train traffic? Particularly noticeable right near me - Charlotte Ave around 40th, and every single crossing north of that gets at most the lights, and the farther north/west you go, it starts to become just a yield sign or ordinary white railroad sign with no lights, despite fairly frequent train traffic and a lot of tractor trailers. There was already the ethanol truck/train collision here last year, and I don't want to imagine what would happen if a train serving InnoPhos got involved in a wreck...