The Transportation and Mass Transit Megathread

[Bos2Nash]

On 2/13/2023 at 5:29 PM, PaulChinetti said:

Instead of EV fees and wheel taxes etc. I saw a good point that vehicles should all be charged by weight, because the more a vehicles weighs the more damage it does to a roadway.

This is my thought as well. This would balance between gas and EV vehicles. I’m all for EVs, but the fact that the “hummer ev” is 9,000 pounds is just insane. But if it is more expensive to drive the bigger vehicles maybe we start to see a decline in vehicle sizes

[MLBrumby]

I think the trend of bigger/heavier vehicles is actually going to continue with more EVs.

[Bos2Nash]

Then quite honestly, I would not really support EVs and will ultimately pull back my reservation from GM. We are supposed to be finding a cleaner alternative, but if we just get bigger and heavier, than we need to mine more for battery materials and have larger batteries to move heavier vehicles which in turn cause more maintenance issues on the roads. So in reality all we are doing is moving the bad aspects of the transportation sector around and making the drivers feel better about themselves. UGH!!

[smeagolsfree]

11 hours ago, Bos2Nash said:

Then quite honestly, I would not really support EVs and will ultimately pull back my reservation from GM. We are supposed to be finding a cleaner alternative, but if we just get bigger and heavier, than we need to mine more for battery materials and have larger batteries to move heavier vehicles which in turn cause more maintenance issues on the roads. So in reality all we are doing is moving the bad aspects of the transportation sector around and making the drivers feel better about themselves. UGH!!

I am sort of with you on this. There is going to have to be a better alternative. I think EV's are a short-term solution. The oil companies are investing in the tech, however they are also investing in Hydrogen tech as well. Lithium batteries are not very environmentally friendly to say the least, and the problems with safety and disposal of these batteries are going to present a lot of issues. Look at the recent problems with the car fires in Florida after the hurricanes. That is not to mention all of the spontaneous car fires of other EV' there have been especially with Tesla.

That may end up being in the cards, but the tech has a long way to go. Toyota has a prototype hydrogen vehicle, but hydrogen at this point is still very inefficient. Lots of information out there on Hydrogen to digest if you are in for a lot of reading.

[markhollin]

Big news for the EV industry here in Middle Tennessee: President Biden took a step Wednesday towards reaching his goal of having at least 50% of new car sales by 2030 being electric vehicles by announcing a set of actions aimed at creating a made-in-America EV charging network.

The Biden-Harris Administration is working to build a national network of 500,000 EV chargers along American highways that are universal to all makes and models of EVs. Tesla's nationwide network of more than 40,000 Superchargers has traditionally only serviced Tesla vehicles, but the company announced it will make 7,500 chargers available for all electric vehicles by the end of 2024.

More at The Tennessean here:

https://www.tennessean.com/story/news/local/wilson/lebanon/2023/02/15/tritium-ev-charging-facility-in-lebanon-adding-250-jobs-to-workforce/69906423007/

[chc3]

One of my pet peeves is the posting of laws that are never enforced. I’m speaking of the ubiquitous signs around town stating the state law to stop for pedestrians at crosswalks. I frequently walk downtown through Bicentennial Mall and less than 5% of drivers on Jefferson come to a stop. Many speed up when they see a pedestrian. No one cares about what I’m about to say, but I lived on the West Coast much of my life and drivers there always stop. Unless we’re willing to enforce this state law with cameras and hefty fines, let’s remove the signs. Rant over.

[BnaBreaker]

1 hour ago, chc3 said:

One of my pet peeves is the posting of laws that are never enforced. I’m speaking of the ubiquitous signs around town stating the state law to stop for pedestrians at crosswalks. I frequently walk downtown through Bicentennial Mall and less than 5% of drivers on Jefferson come to a stop. Many speed up when they see a pedestrian. No one cares about what I’m about to say, but I lived on the West Coast much of my life and drivers there always stop. Unless we’re willing to enforce this state law with cameras and hefty fines, let’s remove the signs. Rant over.

People speed up when pedestrians are actively crossing the street?  Or are they waiting to cross the street?  

[GregH]

Un-signaled crosswalks on multi-lane roads make me real nervous as a pedestrian. Even if someone stops for you, there's a risk that a driver coming up behind will just choose to swing around them at full speed, not thinking about why they might be stopped. I think someone was killed in this situation on maybe Trinity Lane a few years ago.

 

In terms of un-enforced/enforceable signs, one of my favorites is the "No Trucks over 5,000 Lbs" sign on my street. That's just a Toyota Sequoia these days!

[chc3]

1 hour ago, BnaBreaker said:

People speed up when pedestrians are actively crossing the street?  Or are they waiting to cross the street?  

Usually while they are waiting, but I’ve had them increase speed while I’m crossing Jefferson and James Robertson Pkwy in front of the State Capitol.

[Luvemtall]

Most people don’t even know the principals of driving 101. At the end of my road it comes out between two traffic lights, Hugh sign says “ DO NOT BLOCK INTERSECTION “ yep they always block the intersection! That extra 50 feet between two RED lights makes a difference. 

[smeagolsfree]

20 hours ago, chc3 said:

Usually while they are waiting, but I’ve had them increase speed while I’m crossing Jefferson and James Robertson Pkwy in front of the State Capitol.

I have stopped for pedestrians there before and have almost been rear ended and have horns blown at me.

[markhollin]

Broadway Viaduct update.

Looking north from 12th Ave. North, just north of Broadway:

[Sean blackdog]

Last Saturday evening. 
Working on new road and bridge on I-40E near BNA. 

[markhollin]

More bollards being installed on south side of Lower Broadway, between  4th Ave. and 5th Ave:
 

[satalac]

On 2/16/2023 at 9:38 AM, GregH said:

 

 

In terms of un-enforced/enforceable signs, one of my favorites is the "No Trucks over 5,000 Lbs" sign on my street. That's just a Toyota Sequoia these days!

Most EVs are that heavy these days too. 

[markhollin]

Broadway Viaduct rebuild update.

Looking west from 11th Ave., underneath the existing viaduct:
 

Looking SW  from 11th Ave. North, just north of Broadway:

[go_outside]

There is some consternation over how TDOT's $3 billion road funding proposal will be allocated across the state. From the Tennessee Lookout:

A breakdown reported by the Tennessee Journal shows Region 2, from Chattanooga to the Kentucky state line with a population of 1.12 million, is set to receive $667 per capita, more than twice as much as Middle Tennessee. 

Region 4, from Memphis to Kentucky with a population of 1.57 million, would receive $479 per capita. Region 1, including Knoxville and the rest of East Tennessee with a population of 1.77 million, would receive $423 per capita. Region 3, including Nashville and Middle Tennessee with a population of 2.45 million, would receive $307 per capita.

Personally, I think this could be a blessing in disguise. While certain downtown loop interchanges should be reconfigured, I think Governor Lee's road widening enthusiasm is generally detrimental to cities like Nashville. Maybe it's best if those projects stay away from here?

[andywildman]

May 1st will mark the 5-year anniversary of the Let's Move Nashville referendum and its resounding defeat.

If you had to draw a new map for a transit plan you thought Nashville would vote for, what would it look like?

My plan would be similar to the one proposed five years ago, but with a heavier focus on interconnectivity and converting current high-ridership buses to light rail.

1. I'd lose the west-bound light rail, add a Broadway streetcar (in blue) in the spirit of Kansas City or Cincinnati. This would run from Centennial Park to the Cumberland, connecting Vanderbilt, Midtown & the hospital district, the Beaman/Reed developments, the Gulch, the Star, and Downtown. 10 minute headways, focused on downtown residents, connecting other transit, and tourists. 
2. WeGo's three highest-ridership bus lines become light rail (in red): Murfreesboro Pike 55, Gallatin Pike 56, and Nolensville Pike 52. These light rail lines would include an update to NashvilleNext general plan significantly upzoning for all property within 1/2 mile of a rail route or 3/4 mile of stations, as well as Metro doing an Envision Hickory Hollow: parceling out and developing the Hickory Hollow mall area for density like Green Hills or even the East Bank. The Murfreesboro Pike line would swing by the airport to collect tourists and most midtown/downtown residents traveling out of Nashville.
3. Provisions made for the Amtrak line (in green) that the TN Legislature is considering - I'm assuming it'll run to Chattanooga and stop in the Gulch, and it should include a stop at "The Crossings" for a park-and-ride and connectivity to BNA. Metro should be working up a public/private partnership for 
4. Significant investment in bus networks (in pink): I'm talking BRT-style dedicated right-of-way as much as possible on higher-ridership lines like Bordeaux, Dickerson, and Charlotte - I want commuters watching the bus blow by them! - plus implementing and prioritizing cross-town connectors with transit centers to feed the light rail and BRT (South of town on Thompson, Harding, and Bell, North of town on Ed Temple and Trinity, and West of town on White Bridge)

If you wanted to go less aggressive, you could argue for Nolensville Pike to be BRT initially; if you wanted to go more aggressive, I'd put light rail on Dickerson or Charlotte.

[Bos2Nash]

On 3/3/2023 at 2:41 PM, andywildman said:

May 1st will mark the 5-year anniversary of the Let's Move Nashville referendum and its resounding defeat.

If you had to draw a new map for a transit plan you thought Nashville would vote for, what would it look like?

My plan would be similar to the one proposed five years ago, but with a heavier focus on interconnectivity and converting current high-ridership buses to light rail.

1. I'd lose the west-bound light rail, add a Broadway streetcar (in blue) in the spirit of Kansas City or Cincinnati. This would run from Centennial Park to the Cumberland, connecting Vanderbilt, Midtown & the hospital district, the Beaman/Reed developments, the Gulch, the Star, and Downtown. 10 minute headways, focused on downtown residents, connecting other transit, and tourists. 
2. WeGo's three highest-ridership bus lines become light rail (in red): Murfreesboro Pike 55, Gallatin Pike 56, and Nolensville Pike 52. These light rail lines would include an update to NashvilleNext general plan significantly upzoning for all property within 1/2 mile of a rail route or 3/4 mile of stations, as well as Metro doing an Envision Hickory Hollow: parceling out and developing the Hickory Hollow mall area for density like Green Hills or even the East Bank. The Murfreesboro Pike line would swing by the airport to collect tourists and most midtown/downtown residents traveling out of Nashville.
3. Provisions made for the Amtrak line (in green) that the TN Legislature is considering - I'm assuming it'll run to Chattanooga and stop in the Gulch, and it should include a stop at "The Crossings" for a park-and-ride and connectivity to BNA. Metro should be working up a public/private partnership for 
4. Significant investment in bus networks (in pink): I'm talking BRT-style dedicated right-of-way as much as possible on higher-ridership lines like Bordeaux, Dickerson, and Charlotte - I want commuters watching the bus blow by them! - plus implementing and prioritizing cross-town connectors with transit centers to feed the light rail and BRT (South of town on Thompson, Harding, and Bell, North of town on Ed Temple and Trinity, and West of town on White Bridge)

If you wanted to go less aggressive, you could argue for Nolensville Pike to be BRT initially; if you wanted to go more aggressive, I'd put light rail on Dickerson or Charlotte.

I am on my laptop (very old), so I cant do any diagrams for you all. But thanks for the post!

For any light rail conversion of bus lines, I think we would need to route them through the proposed East bank Mobility Hub and then have them pass thru the city to external terminus points. Any form of train system will need "yard" space in order to store and maintain equipment. I like this first pass as to where the train lines would be because it is serving many communities of need. I would like to see trains in North Nashville/Bordeaux as that is another "need" community that has been depressed over the years. 

For bus routes, we would need WAY more crosstown routes. For example, your crosstown routes in the southeastern part of the city should continue from Murfreesboro Road all the way over to SR 70 in Bellevue area. We also need more crosstown routes in the north that would connect neighborhoods to the trains, but also other neighborhoods. The spoke-a-wheel system has hurt Nashville tremendously and needs a drastic overhaul. 

Amtrak would be great, but I think that is the absolute lowest priority for the city.  Buses, Rapid (train) transit and regional rail should be the three main priorities. When I say Regional Rail I am talking commuter rail. Amtrak in this part of the country is not a commuter option. See below for my thoughts on regional rail.

We also need to think Regional, so I will quote an improvement to the WeGo Star. This would come with a lot of upzoning and community character changes (think a whole Nashville Next revision) as well as a rail connection to the airport. 

On 7/23/2022 at 1:58 PM, Bos2Nash said:

I think modifying the WeGo Star is the best place to start too as there is a certain amount of established infrastructure already in place. Stations really do not need to be the most impressive thing. That article posted by @japan(thank you by the way) specifically called out how some of the overly designed stations on the GLX project created huge budget inflation. The biggest thing is ADA accessibility and level access boarding (so you don't need to climb those steps into the train). I agree about upzoning around the stations but within that half mile range step down the zoning so that we don't go from MUL immediately to and R policy.

I would take the WeGo Star a step further though. The first step is a full electrification (and safety upgrading) of the entire line and replacing the currently locomotive fleet with Electric Multiple Units (EMUs). EMUs are the standard for subways, high-speed trains, and high-frequency Regional Rail service, because of their reliability, ease of maintenance, and superior acceleration. This acceleration aspect could be capitalized on by adding a series of new stops, making the line much more convenient to residents and workers. This new electrification would add 7 new stops to the line with plenty of opportunity to add more. Additionally, I would propose an underground tunnel from Donelson Station (area, elevation changes for a tunnel would move the tunnel entry away from the actual station), under Donelson Pike (SR255) to the Airport. Finally, I would extend the train service down to where Sparta Pike (SR 70) meets I-40. These EMUs could run on 15 to 30 minute schedules and the stations would be expanded to two tracks to allow for train bypassing.

I do believe this line is shared with freight still, so there would be negotiations there, but that is a solvable problem, I believe. Freight would not be required to use the electrification components. Due to the freight corridor though, this line would never be able to upgrade from Regional Rail to Heavy Rail (subway, third rail).

Here is my proposed WeGo Star map

New stations are numbered below, in all the WeGo Star main line could be 15 stops, with 2 additional connecting to the airport. The first two new stations has the potential to stretch the bigger development out to where Mill Creek feeds into the Cumberland.

RiverFront Station (existing)
1 – Railyard District @ Fesslers Lane ––– The entire Railyard district should be rezoned to MUI-A, most likely with a UDO over the top to allow density here. The north/south railroad (crosses the Cumberland at Shelby Bottoms) would be the eastern border of the area. I think a pedestrian bridge could then cross the Cumberland and connect to Davidson St/Shelby Bottoms Greenway. 
2 – River Hills Station ––– This station would connect to some of the industrial land, but also existing SFH stock that otherwise must make use of Lebanon Pike. There is space for a generous park and ride or a parking structure that TOD could be built around.
3 – Two Rivers/ McGavock Pike ––– This makes sense as it is a major crossing in an otherwise isolated area. Upzoning may be a hard sell in the area, but upzoning could be done between the train station and up to Two Rivers Middle School to create a solid corridor. This would again be able to connect into the Greenway network at Two Rivers.
Donelson Station (existing)
    3a – Elm Hill Pike (Underground)  ––– Major intersection/commercial node between Donelson and Airport
    3b – BNA @ Terminal Drive (Underground or Above)  ––– Major airport terminal. Every other train departing Riverfront Station could have the airport as the destination.
Hermitage Station (existing)
4 – S Greenhill Road @ W Division St ––– Area at intersection has a lot of open space for a station and track expansion. Provide a corridor between the station and  Mt. Juliet Elementary.
Mt. Juliet Station (existing)
5 – Golden Bear Gateway @ E Division Street ––– While this area does not have a lot of residential at it now. Providing transportation options for employees would be a great benefit, plus having a station with development friendly zoning could increase the development around it allowing employees to move closer and potential sparking more commercial around the industrial. 
Martha Station (existing)
6 – Cairo Bend Rd @ Lebanon Rd ––– Major road intersection between two existing stations.
Hamilton Springs Station (existing)
7 – W Baddour Pkwy ––– Station could be before or after the crossing (positioned so a stopped train never blocks the road) but would allow for easy access to established commercial node. Could allow for non-personal vehicle improvements between S Hartmann Dr and Maple Hill Road
Lebanon Station (existing)
7a – Sparta Pike @ Briskin Lane ––– This is a major road connection with other large are employers. Improvements to the area could include pedestrian pathway and/or shuttle service to a certain entertainment venue rumored to be in close proximity to the station.

I'd be very interested in getting @rookzie's take on this proposal.

The WeGo Star is already on existing ROW, but it is also the lowest priority of three rail companies that operate on the line. I cant remember the other two, but any form of improvement, schedule change, update along the tracks needs to go through a bureaucratic nightmare of a system to even be considered. I have also been told by a well-versed fellow (not on this board) train tunnels are running about $1 billion a mile. With that in mind the connection from the Star to the airport could be in BRT buses along Donelson Pike (would need State agreements for this) that then tie into the Star at Donelson Station.

I will say though.... All of this is useless without assistance from the State. Metro has a ton of issues that they need to tackle and have some much lower hanging fruit that they can capture before dropping the pretty penny that these types of systems would cost. For example, A comprehensive plan to place/renovate sidewalks, protected bike lanes along all major corridors and striped bike lanes where the traffic flow is safe enough for unprotected. Even putting $1 billion over 10 years to those two things would do wonders for Nashville's connectiveness and safety.

[nashmoney]

After driving all over the southeast for work, I will say Nashville traffic is not the worst. One thing that I like about the middle TN road network, is that there are state highways that all run parallel to the main interstate that lead you to the main cities and towns along the major interstate routes. 

Ex:

24W - Clarksville Hwy 

24E - Murfreesboro Rd and Nolensville Rd 

65N - Gallatin pk

65S - Franklin Rd and Nolensville Rd 

40E - Lebanon pk

40W - Charlotte pk, 70S, and Hwy 100

I'm saying all of this to say Nashville is fortunate to have alternate routes in case there are wrecks that shutdown the interstate, or just heavy traffic. I hate sitting in traffic and not moving and stop and go traffic. I would rather be moving and it take me an extra 15 minutes than to be sitting for half an hour or more. 

I used to live in Clarksville and would often take Clarksville Hwy if there was a wreck on I-24W. 

I currently live in Tampa and had family from Nashville come down for the weekend. We went to animal kingdom on Saturday and left Tampa  at 9am and it took us 2.5 hrs for a normal 1.5hr trip. No wrecks or anything, just heavy volume. I-4 between Orlando and Tampa is a complete cluster no matter when you travel it. And there are no roads that run parallel to I-4 that will get you to either city without going an extra 50 miles out of the way.

 

 

[markhollin]

Broadway Viaduct rebuild update.

Looking west from 11th Ave., underneath the existing viaduct:

Looking SW  from 11th Ave. North, just north of Broadway:

[nashville born]

Effort to add rapid bus service on GA 400 in Atlanta.  

https://atlanta.urbanize.city/post/marta-rapid-bus-service-ga-400-roswell-alpharetta-renderings?utm_source=Urbanize+Newsletter&utm_campaign=c2ce299cce-news-atlanta-daily-2023-03-08&utm_medium=email&utm_term=0_f2c8779a36-c2ce299cce-199748044

[MLBrumby]

This will be interesting to me. I've been a huge proponent of BRT.  Nashville is so far behind the curve on this. For shame! 

[Sean blackdog]

Today this evening. 
Working on new road and bridge on I-40E near BNA. 

[markhollin]

The Transit Alliance of Middle Tennessee is working to address the region’s transit needs by starting with bringing community members to the table according to Jessica Dauphin, president and CEO of the organization.

Through working with other major emerging cities like Austin and Charlotte, Dauphin learned that they attribute the success of getting their transit plans off the ground largely to community engagement at the front end, gaining residents’ trust. 

With Network for Sustainable Solutions, The Transit Alliance has launched a series of community listening sessions, Transit Together, partnering with existing nonprofits like Urban Housing Solutions, Civic Design Center, Walk Bike Nashville, Great Nashville Realtors and others. 

“It’s not like the 2018 referendum was done in a vacuum. There were community outreach sessions,” said Jim Schmitz, chair of the Transit Alliance. “I think for us, going and doing it at this point, without a specific plan out there, gives us a little more flexibility.”

From these sessions, the Transit Alliance is hoping to compile a list of prioritized projects the community would like to see and would support, to hand over to the mayor and Metro Council.

More at NBJ here:

https://www.bizjournals.com/nashville/news/2023/03/13/transit-alliance-of-middle-tennessee-community.html