The Transportation and Mass Transit Megathread

[Bos2Nash]

16 minutes ago, Archibum said:

Why not a train at grade on Donelson Pk if we are dreaming? I feel like Donelson Pk doesn't get the traffic now to warrant as many lanes as it has.

The primary reason I said tunnel was to avoid a conflict with the state as it is a state road. The train would also be a regional rail train set that would require a grade separation. As I said above, I don't see a LR train set getting up to economies scale between the airport and Donelson Station.

[smeagolsfree]

20 hours ago, Archibum said:

Why not a train at grade on Donelson Pk if we are dreaming? I feel like Donelson Pk doesn't get the traffic now to warrant as many lanes as it has.

Donelson Pike is state Route 255. State controlled Hwy. So, the state will not allow a dedicated lane.

[chc3]

Traffic backed up west of Briley Pkwy an hour ago to access BNA. Must’ve been a two-mile back-up. I’ll bet a ton of tourists in ride shares or rental cars wish they could have zipped to the airport from downtown by fast rail!

[markhollin]

Broadway Viaduct staging area is brimming with materials.

Looking east from 12th Ave. North at Broadway:

[Nathan_in_DC]

On 5/18/2023 at 3:47 PM, Bos2Nash said:

  I think connecting the terminal to Donelson Station is our best move for connecting the airport to downtown. The issue with a Donelson station connection is we do not have enough frequency on the WeGo Star for it to work correctly. We could technically tie it into the bus system at Donelson Station, but then it is the same discussion as the Murfreesboro BRT line. Light Rail for this small length almost doesn't make sense. Rail is so expensive here in the country, there needs to be a larger project to get to the economies that make light rail make sense. One thing to keep in mind when referencing light rail is it's not just laying some track and procuring some trains. It is those two things, plus a layover/store yard, a maintenance facility it is investment in land for those items, etc. So for light rail to work we really need to get to a certain scale to see the economies in it.

At the encouragement of some of the CMs I forwarded the below post from last July to all the CMs in which the WeGo Star serves. It resulted in a conversation with Jeff Syracuse and Steve Bland where we chatted about the Star as a whole and where things stand with Positive Train Control (this is why WeGo cut the late trains on Friday and Titan game trains), TOD and overall system expansion. The plan below shows a tunnel that goes from Donelson Station to the Airport, but I have been told rail tunnels are running approximately $1 billion per mile (!!!). A solid modification to the idea below could convert the segment from the Airport to Donelson to shuttle busses (natural gas/electric/hydrogen powered) and then the train on 15 to 30 minute headways could pick folks up.

No matter what though, a connection to Donelson would involve a serious investment and upgrade for one of our existing systems or the other.

I don't think a connection to Donelson is going to happen in the foreseeable future for all the reasons mentioned above.

However, while it's still unlikely to happen, I think a more realistic scenario is a limited stop BRT running from the airport down Donelson Pike to Murfreesboro Pike, then up Rosa Parks or John Lewis to Charlotte and on to central station. With sub-15 minute headways and running on dedicated lanes with preferential signals and limited stops, you could create a sub-30 minute trip from the airport to downtown largely immune to traffic tie-ups. With a little more investment this could be a light rail line, too.

For an absolute non-sequiter, while playing around with existing bus schedules and routes, I discovered that the 55 (Downtown to Hickory Hollow) runs with 10 minute headways basically from 5:00AM to 6:00PM, at which point it goes to 20 minutes until 10:00, then 30 minutes until 11:30. That's much better service than I realized was on any route in the system, and better than most WMATA MetroBus service here in DC. Even the 'premium' quasi-BRT Metroway service only runs every 12 minutes at best. The 18 on the other hand, the Airport route, only runs every 45-50 minutes until 6:00PM, running local service down Elm Hill Pike, at which point it switches to hourly express service bypassing Elm Hill Pike. This is honestly worse than useless... it's insulting.

[Bos2Nash]

1 hour ago, Nathan_in_DC said:

I don't think a connection to Donelson is going to happen in the foreseeable future for all the reasons mentioned above.

However, while it's still unlikely to happen, I think a more realistic scenario is a limited stop BRT running from the airport down Donelson Pike to Murfreesboro Pike, then up Rosa Parks or John Lewis to Charlotte and on to central station. With sub-15 minute headways and running on dedicated lanes with preferential signals and limited stops, you could create a sub-30 minute trip from the airport to downtown largely immune to traffic tie-ups. With a little more investment this could be a light rail line, too.

For an absolute non-sequiter, while playing around with existing bus schedules and routes, I discovered that the 55 (Downtown to Hickory Hollow) runs with 10 minute headways basically from 5:00AM to 6:00PM, at which point it goes to 20 minutes until 10:00, then 30 minutes until 11:30. That's much better service than I realized was on any route in the system, and better than most WMATA MetroBus service here in DC. Even the 'premium' quasi-BRT Metroway service only runs every 12 minutes at best. The 18 on the other hand, the Airport route, only runs every 45-50 minutes until 6:00PM, running local service down Elm Hill Pike, at which point it switches to hourly express service bypassing Elm Hill Pike. This is honestly worse than useless... it's insulting.

I think the only way Donelson become remotely feasible is if there is a massive investment in the WeGo Star and I agree, I don't see that happening anytime soon. But if the idea continues to get spread around and you get some aggressive, transit oriented folks in office, it could be closer than we think. 

The BRT you mention is essentially what the Mayor's office has proposed I believe. I see two - very solvable - issues with the BRT. The airport line will require airport shuttle style buses to allow for folks with luggage to better fit on the buses. The issue with this is does the airport shuttle bus go all the way to downtown or does it create a transfer point? The transfer point item is the other concern I have. Blending the airport route on to the 55 BRT route (which is the most heavily used transit line in the WeGo system) could potentially create a bottleneck issue on the dedicated lanes. I think it is a solvable issue, but as you noted, the 55 is already on 10 minute headways so I ask how does the system efficiently tie another whole line onto the dedicated lane while not impacting a massive transportation line?

"The Bus" also needs a major PR upgrade to show just how efficient and useful it is. I have taken the 56 several times recently for my commute and its quick and useful. I know someone who uses the 55 almost every time they come downtown and they swear by it. It does work and it actually has some decent timings. The biggest issue with the bus is the lack of crosstown and the "spoke" system in which you need to go into Central just to go anywhere else.

[Bark At The Sun]

New Donelson Pike/I40 Interchange.   Bridge Pier construction starting on the North side.

[AsianintheNations]

On 5/21/2023 at 6:40 PM, chc3 said:

Traffic backed up west of Briley Pkwy an hour ago to access BNA. Must’ve been a two-mile back-up. I’ll bet a ton of tourists in ride shares or rental cars wish they could have zipped to the airport from downtown by fast rail!

While I agree 100%, the current issues at BNA stem from the on-site cell phone lots being closed temporarily and relocated some 3-4 miles away, plus restructuring of the parking deck pricing to discourage short-term parking. As a result, people are just circling around and around the airport, and in some cases just parking in random places until authorities do or do not force them to move.

A train would of course help a lot, particularly with tourists, and perhaps the current situation will provide some momentum for that.

[smeagolsfree]

Well, if the state takes over BNA and ask for a light rail from the airport to Downtown, I wonder what they will do now since their own rules will prohibit them from doing what they want to do. This may be a good thing in the long run to put the shoe on the other foot and take the blinders off.

[markhollin]

Pending council approval, Jess Neely Drive — the public road adjacent to Dudley field and Charles Hawkins Field — will permanently close to vehicular traffic as it transforms into a more walkable area.

The enhanced road will include bike parking, an improved tree canopy, seating opportunities, hardscape improvements using permeable pavers, enhanced landscaping and decorative and dark sky lighting of the canopy.

Natchez Trace, 25th Avenue, Garland Avenue, Children's Way, and Kensington Drive will also enjoy improvements.

The infrastructure enhancements will total $22.1 million, all of which Vanderbilt has agreed to financially support.

More at The Tennessean here:

https://www.tennessean.com/story/news/local/2023/05/25/vanderbilt-partners-with-metro-nashville-for-creating-walkable-spaces/70258080007/

[markhollin]

Lower Broadway sidewalk improvements at 4th Ave:

[Sean blackdog]

Today this evening. 

[markhollin]

Broadway Viaduct update: new temporary pedestrian fencing and barriers up.

Looking west from intersection of Broadway and 10th Ave:

[Bos2Nash]

14 hours ago, Sean blackdog said:

What is this staging area for?  It is this area of the highway. 

[PruneTracy]

26 minutes ago, Bos2Nash said:

What is this staging area for?  It is this area of the highway.

Broadway bridge replacement. Kiewit is using it to store the deck panels.

Interestingly they did the same thing for Fast Fix 8, I asked the TDOT structures director if they were going to let Kiewit build a field office there. He didn't think it was amusing as I did.

[CenterHill]

On 6/4/2023 at 11:56 AM, PruneTracy said:

Broadway bridge replacement. Kiewit is using it to store the deck panels.

Interestingly they did the same thing for Fast Fix 8, I asked the TDOT structures director if they were going to let Kiewit build a field office there. He didn't think it was amusing as I did.

Seems like that area was also used as staging for several other projects over the years.   

[Sean blackdog]

Today this morning. 
Big and long yellow mobile crane is up. 
Working on new Broadway Bridge replacement. 

[Luvemtall]

53 minutes ago, Sean blackdog said:

Today this morning. 
Big and long yellow mobile crane is up. 
Working on new Broadway Bridge replacement. 

Wow, that does seem like a really big crane , for a road project.

[Bark At The Sun]

2 hours ago, Luvemtall said:

Wow, that does seem like a really big crane , for a road project.

Bigger cranes are needed to place the bigger bridge sections.  This is an accelerated bridge replacement project.   A smaller crane like Superior Construction is using above on the I40 Donelson Project moves smaller pieces over a longer period of time.    It wont be there long.....Kiewit doesn't mess around.

[markhollin]

Lower Broadway sidewalk improvement on north side between 4th and 5th Aves. is now complete and open.

[MLBrumby]

^ already stained with urine! 

[Sean blackdog]

Today this afternoon. 
Big and long yellow mobile crane still up. New Broadway Bridge replacement. 

[markhollin]

8th Ave. South from Edgehill Ave. to Craighead St. is finally resurfaced with new markings after several years of being ripped-up for new sewer work . As smooth as a baby's behind.   : )
 

[Auntie Yock]

On 6/10/2023 at 5:14 PM, MLBrumby said:

^ already stained with urine! 

I worry what some of those drunken ladies might think what those bollards are for.

[nashmoney]

Every time I see a new post from this thread I'm like... Yaaaaayyy mass transit. Then I scroll down and it's things that should have been done 20 years ago like sidewalks, pedestrian crossings, bridge rebuilds, and safety bollards on Broadway. I guess mass transit will never come to Nashville... Oh Well. I'll keep wishing... 

Edited June 12, 2023 by nashmoney