The Transportation and Mass Transit Megathread

[producer2]

You answer a supposition with a supposition. So far we haven't gained any new ground here. What I said was none of us know all of the information but many have clearly taken sides. You also have put words in mymouth with the quote which was never a quote... "private enterprise should never be using a public facility" when what I actually said was private enterprise should not be using public facilities for free when they are the only ones profiting. Big difference. Greyhound charges more because they own facilities and have higher overhead but they do contribute far more to the local economy by doing so. They also have a better safety record currently.

[East Side Urbanite]

It's fine for tour buses to stop on streets and unload folks but not for Megabus? Maybe I'm missing something.

[BrandonTO416]

^I don't know enough about the situation, other than it appears that Megabus was not granted rights to use a safer, better facility they were willing to pay to lease from. I don't know what they offered, I don't know what MTA was expecting. 

[nashvillwill]

Transit system politics aside, I would like to see the Clement Landport get a little more use. It's definately valuable real estate for MTA and I'm not quite sure why it's not being used very much. If the Star ever expands, odds are the terminus would be around this Landport and it will become much more useful.

MCC is a great transit hub (a really nice facility), but the Landport serves a different part of town and could surely be integrated a little more into current routes. Maybe it is and I don't know. It just always looks deserted.

[producer2]

It's fine for tour buses to stop on streets and unload folks but not for Megabus? Maybe I'm missing something.

 

Yes because they are regulated and the companies that operate them pay fees for their usage. Very simple equation not sure what part of this we are having issue with. Be a good corporate citizen, play by the rules and you will be fine. Very simple.

 

taxis load and unload folks on public streets, as do limos, horse drawn carriages, and the list goes on. They all seem to be able to work within the rules.

[timmay143]

Transit system politics aside, I would like to see the Clement Landport get a little more use. It's definately valuable real estate for MTA and I'm not quite sure why it's not being used very much. If the Star ever expands, odds are the terminus would be around this Landport and it will become much more useful.

MCC is a great transit hub (a really nice facility), but the Landport serves a different part of town and could surely be integrated a little more into current routes. Maybe it is and I don't know. It just always looks deserted.

Amen, totally agree.  That landport could and should be put to great use.

 

Edit: Well, at least much better use.  Use at all if nothing else!

[Guest 5th & Main Urbanite]

From what I understand some businesses complained about the Mega Bus as well.

[chelovek]

Amen, totally agree.  That landport could and should be put to great use.

 

Edit: Well, at least much better use.  Use at all if nothing else!

 

MTA currently has the lower sections of the Clement Landport for lease on their procurement website: http://www.nashvillemta.org/Nashville-MTA-procurement-list.asp

 

Considering what is down there, it seems like parking is really all that would go in. The top deck is currently used for parking and seemingly nothing more. Its not really even park-and-ride since no busses stop on the viaduct (that I am aware of).

[nashvillwill]

Megabus announces new stop (in a private lot) in Sobro. 4th&Elm

http://nashvillecitypaper.com/content/city-news/megabus-announces-new-service-stop-near-downtown

[BnaBreaker]

Glad they found a site relatively close to downtown, but I'm still not sure why the city is forcing MegaBus riders to have to walk blocks upon blocks through desolate, somewhat seedy industrial land sometimes at night with their luggage in tow just to hail a cab or get to a hotel.

[UTgrad09]

That's literally a block from the Grayhound station. Interesting.

[producer2]

Glad they found a site relatively close to downtown, but I'm still not sure why the city is forcing MegaBus riders to have to walk blocks upon blocks through desolate, somewhat seedy industrial land sometimes at night with their luggage in tow just to hail a cab or get to a hotel.

They are not forced to do anything. MegaBus is creating its own problems. Can anyone here give me a rational reason why Megabus should be treated differently from any other corporate entity in doing business? Should all for profit, private companies be given free space to conduct business? Why do you think other cities like Dallas, Austin, Houston, San Antonio, and this from a Chicago news outlet:

"In light of Megabus’ recent problems, Krueger family attorney Dan Kotin said, “I think we need to start looking at the industry as a whole.”

To cut expenses, Megabus operates without terminals, picking up and unloading passengers right from the street.

It’s a business model that’s growing, but in a report last year, the National Transportation Safety Board found the curbside pickup bus industry has a troubling safety record.

The fatal accident rate for traditional bus companies is two deaths per 1,000 vehicles. For curbside companies, it’s 14 per 1,000 vehicles – seven times higher."

And this from Austin:

"The city issued a cease-and-desist order against the company. But Mega Bus found a solution: They signed a contract with a private parking lot less than half a block from their original pick-up and drop-off site, on a sidewalk near UT.

The pick-up location is sorted out, but issues of accessibility remain – according to the American Disabled for Accessible Public Transit, at least. Jennifer McPhail is a community organizer with the group.

“They have a process where you have to reserve a wheelchair-accessible bus, but you can’t reserve that bus online,” McPhail says. “They do their business predominantly online and you have no way of accessing the [wheelchair] accessible bus online.”

Mega Bus says they’re doing their part. According to director Bryony Chamberlain, the company’s buses are 100 percent compatible with the Americans with Disabilities Act. And she says disabled people will have the option to book tickets online.

“To manage that, we actually had to rebuild the web engine from the bottom up,” Chamberlain says. “The majority of that work is complete and we hope to have that switched on within the next couple of months. This will be the first of its kind in the industry.”

But McPhail says that’s not good enough.

“They had a year and a month to figure out how to work out the kinks in the system,” she says. “And they should have done that before they extended their business into Texas.”

In a settlement with the Department of Justice last May, Mega Bus was given a year to bring their website into compliance. The time is up.

Mega Bus is also having permitting issues related to their pick-up and drop-off location in Dallas. Chamberlain says the company hopes to have those issues ironed out within six weeks."

I could cut and paste these stories all day long as there are plenty of them. this has not even touched on their poor safety record. 

[Guest]

P2 I could cite chapter and verse detailing safety lapses in the tour bus industry, but, like most of your articles it is not on point with the discussion. 

Having actually experienced first-hand being a customer of Mega Bus I will say that the website and the app are user friendly, the pick-up and drop-off's were a breeze as they have stop at both the Knoxville KAT Hub and Union Station in DC (as well as a park and ride location in VA). 

I would add that our streets and infrastructure are paid for by both business and citizens. Daily we all see UPS and Fedex, convention and tourist buses, trucks and vans loading or unloading in the street. This is no different... 

[producer2]

of course you could because you have a different viewpoint. The reality is they aren't getting free use of public infrastructure here or anywhere else. They have struck deals in a few of the other cities and they will here eventually if they want to use the space. Still a simple equation.

[Guest]

Question? What are the terms of the deal that is struck by a tour bus operator from Ohio bussing tourist around our city? They will stop, often in the street to load/unload /park. I would like to see that agreement......

Mine is the consistent viewpoint with the examples I listed, while yours seems to be somewhat inconsistent, IMO.

 

And if Mega Bus decides to invest in permanent facilities it should be a business decision and not one forced on them by the city unless the city decides to require the same from the other operators.....

Edited March 20, 2013 by Guest

[producer2]

If you want to see a government document, ask the government, I don't work for them.

What is inconsistent about saying private enterprise needs to pay for using public facilities?

 

on your last point, Grayline,and the other companies that do tours, etc. do pay a fee to the city to operate in Nashville. They are licensed as a business in Davidson County.

That is all the City is asking Megabus to do. They don't have to have a permant facility, they just can't use public ones for free. 

[Guest]

I am speaking of out of town tour operators, that is why I phrased the question as I did.

Does an out of state freight company that unloads on the side of the road pay a special city fee of which I am unaware. They are allowed to do it because the recipient pay the taxes that help fund the infrastructure.....just like I and others do for Mega Bus.

[producer2]

now you are talking theoretical issues. Can you site some real world examples that you are aware of where no one has "paid the freight"? Are there local taxes charged for your Megabus ticket? Just how is Megabus participating in commerce in Davidson County? I am pretty sure Roadway is, I know Greyhound is.

[Guest 5th & Main Urbanite]

I know when I spent 7 years in the hotel business, for a bus to even drop off, they had to have a city permit, and they were regulated to specific spots on the street where they had to park.

I spent time in the trucking/transportation industry as well, and permitting for loading, unloading, cartage, weight, fuel, etc was a profit killer for the trucking companies, but they had to pay it to each state they operated in.

[Hey_Hey]

I would be willing to bet that the tour buses from Kentucky that dropped off UK fans for the SEC Tournament didn't pay the city of Nashville for each stop. They are owned and operated by out of state businesses and pay for permits, taxes, etc there.

In my opinion, this is an example of government standing in the way of achieving goals it clearly wants. Clearly, bus transit has not caught on like it has in other countries, but I think all would agree that from an environmental, congestion, and efficiency standpoint bus travel makes more sense than travel by private vehicle. One of the ways Megabus has done this is by operating without physical terminals. They are able to pass that on to the consumer (us) and thereby make bus travel more economic than car travel. It's saving the traveling public considerable amounts of money and is cutting down on carbon emissions and traffic at the same time. The government should operate in a way that serves its citizens, and allowing megabus to operate in a new and more efficient way does that. If megabus goes away the traveling public is left with the greyhound option, and history tells us that the public isn't as willing to travel with greyhound as they are with megabus. The government should be supporting these market based approaches that are clearly in the best interests of the traveling public and the environment.

Now that doesn't mean we allow megabus to stop traffic or create dangerous roads repeatedly, but it does mean megabus should be able to operate without the antagonistic actions of governmental bodies. I don't have any of the "behind the scenes" story lines, but from what I can tell it doesn't seem like Metroor it's entities are being very supportive and helpful. The tone from Metro needs to change.

[producer2]

How do you know that the KY. Buses didn't pay a fee. Chances are they are owned and operated by a company like Grayline or Anchor Trailways or Wise coaches who all pay fees locally much like Greyhound does as they operate coaches both in Nashville and most other cities around the US. Those companies also reduce the carbon footprint while they pay for the wear and tear to the infrastructure they use. Government is not a bad thing. Possibly how it is run is less than efficient but who's fault is that?

[BrandonTO416]

They are not forced to do anything. MegaBus is creating its own problems. Can anyone here give me a rational reason why Megabus should be treated differently from any other corporate entity in doing business? Should all for profit, private companies be given free space to conduct business? Why do you think other cities like Dallas, Austin, Houston, San Antonio, and this from a Chicago news outlet:

"In light of Megabus’ recent problems, Krueger family attorney Dan Kotin said, “I think we need to start looking at the industry as a whole.”

To cut expenses, Megabus operates without terminals, picking up and unloading passengers right from the street.

It’s a business model that’s growing, but in a report last year, the National Transportation Safety Board found the curbside pickup bus industry has a troubling safety record.

The fatal accident rate for traditional bus companies is two deaths per 1,000 vehicles. For curbside companies, it’s 14 per 1,000 vehicles – seven times higher."

And this from Austin:

"The city issued a cease-and-desist order against the company. But Mega Bus found a solution: They signed a contract with a private parking lot less than half a block from their original pick-up and drop-off site, on a sidewalk near UT.

The pick-up location is sorted out, but issues of accessibility remain – according to the American Disabled for Accessible Public Transit, at least. Jennifer McPhail is a community organizer with the group.

“They have a process where you have to reserve a wheelchair-accessible bus, but you can’t reserve that bus online,” McPhail says. “They do their business predominantly online and you have no way of accessing the [wheelchair] accessible bus online.”

Mega Bus says they’re doing their part. According to director Bryony Chamberlain, the company’s buses are 100 percent compatible with the Americans with Disabilities Act. And she says disabled people will have the option to book tickets online.

“To manage that, we actually had to rebuild the web engine from the bottom up,” Chamberlain says. “The majority of that work is complete and we hope to have that switched on within the next couple of months. This will be the first of its kind in the industry.”

But McPhail says that’s not good enough.

“They had a year and a month to figure out how to work out the kinks in the system,” she says. “And they should have done that before they extended their business into Texas.”

In a settlement with the Department of Justice last May, Mega Bus was given a year to bring their website into compliance. The time is up.

Mega Bus is also having permitting issues related to their pick-up and drop-off location in Dallas. Chamberlain says the company hopes to have those issues ironed out within six weeks."

I could cut and paste these stories all day long as there are plenty of them. this has not even touched on their poor safety record. 

 

There are two flaws with your position:

 

1) MegaBus is willing to pay MTA to lease that spot. It isn't asking for free, from reports I have gathered.

 

2) MegaBus is asking for this spot to make it more safe, so they can produce a safer environment for its passengers, instead of having everyone huddle on street corners.

 

You're basically damning Megabus for daring to ask for a lease, then damning it for saying its looking for freebies. You're damning MegaBus' safety record while simultaneously damning them for asking to provide a safer load/unload environment in order to address safety issues. You're on all sides of the argument and aren't making a clear case. I think the point of MegaBus is to compete by lowering prices, and they have a right to ask for a lease at a location off street. You can't start an argument by saying they shouldn't be asking for it.

 

I understand what you are trying to say: MegaBus should build full terminals and pass the costs onto consumers. You aren't articulating that case very well, its wrapped in a lot of contradictory statements that aren't even all factual.

 

Again, didn't MegaBus offer MTA a payment to lease a spot at that location at the landport, and didn't the MTA reject that lease? Hardly a company asking for freebies if this is true.

Edited March 21, 2013 by BrandonTO416

[producer2]

Sorry but your facts are incorrect. They have said they want to lease the space but the space is already under lease for the next 5 years. Great PR move to say this but very easy to say when they know it can't be done.

I am only saying one thing and it is all I have ever stated. If you are a private entity you need to participate in the same manner as all other private, for profit companies. If you believe that Megabus deserves to be treated differently than others than that is your opinion and you have a right to that opinion. Mine differs, that's all.

[nashvillwill]

I'm not living in town these days, so i don't have my finger on the pulse. I'm curious if anyone can tell me how ridership is going on the:

-21 University connector

-MC circuit

I'm especially curious about the 21. It's the first real revenue example of a cross-town route that we have. I would like to see it do well to encourage more routes like it.

[Hey_Hey]

I was at an MTA meeting last week and the said the MC Circuit is currently attracting 22,000 riders per month (IIRC.....it was twenty something for sure). They seemed to point to that as a very good route. At the we recommended that a similar circuit be added to connect the Gulch, Edgehill Village, 12South, Hillsboro Village, Vandy, and Belmont. They seemed to be open to the idea but said it would be a couple years at least before anything comes to fruition.