The Transportation and Mass Transit Megathread

[volsfanwill]

Thanks, 

I'm leaving for the beach for a week tomorrow or I would make them for the rest, and a full system map. maybe when I get back.

 

and yes, Amtrak has to come back to Nashville at some point, I mean, I currently live in the middle of no where in west TN and there is an Amtrak station 15 miles away (though my travel options on it are lacking, either 1:30 am headed south towards New Orleans or 3 am headed north to Chicago).  So I consider it an integral connection to any mass transit.  if someone can jump on a lrt or brt on say 5th and main in east nashville and take it directly to the amtrak station without ever using a car or even changing transit lines, they will see amtrak as a more favorable travel option.   

 

here is a really bad photoshop job, of our  possible future.  (really with time and more effort I can do much better, this is even bad by North Korean standards. )

 

bell-rdexit by willfry, on Flickr

[MLBrumby]

I find it interesting that Nashville's mass transit ridership (btw, I use it in Chattanooga almost everyday) is so high given the rather shoddy service of the MTA.  From the Tennessean...  www.tennessean.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=2013308150017

[nashvillwill]

I find it interesting that Nashville's mass transit ridership (btw, I use it in Chattanooga almost everyday) is so high given the rather shoddy service of the MTA. From the Tennessean... www.tennessean.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=2013308150017

For the record, I wouldn't call the service "shoddy". It's actually very nice. Buses are generally clean and on time. Most routes have low headway, and within the 440 loop, coverage is very adequate. MTA drivers are some of the most helpful transit staff I've ever met.

Now, I won't argue that coverage is incomplete. Some routes are confusing, many stops are unwelcoming and the fact that there are no free transfers is outrageous.

I would be ok with you calling it "spotty", just not "shoddy".

I think the MTA does a good job with the cards they are handed.

[MLBrumby]

"Spotty"... good word, from what I've experienced, although not much in Nashville. 

[nashvillwill]

Yeah, but alot of that "spottiness" has to do with the physical design of the city. It's easy to layout bus lines in a perfect grid. When you are trying to cover an organically grown, very curvy street layout, which rapidly transitions from urban grid to suburban wheel and spoke, there are bound to be gaps.

That's why I said that I think they do a good job with what they are delt. Having said that, I think more cross-town routes are desperately needed as well as more high-profile transfer points (and free transfers!).

[mirydi]

Another article about BRT posted in the Tennessean today.

 

http://www.tennessean.com/article/20130820/NEWS01/308200017/Nashville-s-bus-rapid-transit-projected-bring-thousands-Broadway-West-End?nclick_check=1

[chelovek]

Amen to free transfers. There is no reason why the magnetic stripe cards that we use for our multi-ride passes, change cards, or simple proof of fare payment couldn't also be encoded with a timestamp. Swipe your card on another bus within 1-2 hours of that timestamp and you're good to go!

 

I've asked about transfers at an MTA public meeting before and the rep made it out to seem like there was some enormous technical difficulty with implementing such a system, which is hard to take at face value since so many other cities allow transfers.

 

Because of our city's geography and layout, as well as the design of our transit system, you pretty much always need to make a transfer to get anything done in town. For many people, having to pay two or three times for one trip is more than enough to permanently discourage transit usage.

 

I would love to see a revenue projection that predicts how many fares would be lost from people not having to pay twice compared against how many fares would be gained by all of the new riders who might come on board with the implementation of a transfer system.

 

I went back to school and, happily, my student ID is an unlimited bus pass. Not having to worry about paying for transfers, I use MTA way more frequently now. Of course... there is all that student loan debt

 

Yeah, but alot of that "spottiness" has to do with the physical design of the city. It's easy to layout bus lines in a perfect grid. When you are trying to cover an organically grown, very curvy street layout, which rapidly transitions from urban grid to suburban wheel and spoke, there are bound to be gaps.

That's why I said that I think they do a good job with what they are delt. Having said that, I think more cross-town routes are desperately needed as well as more high-profile transfer points (and free transfers!).

[nashvillwill]

Yeah, I also mentioned free transfers at a public MTA meeting. The rep from MTA seemed surprised and stumped, like it was a brand new concept or something.

And like you said, we know its possible with electronic cards. Hell, the card I use for BART, I can even log into my account and see exactly when and which stations i tagged in and out on any given day, as well as the balance on my card. The card is also linked to my checking account, so that when my transit balance falls below a certain threshold (of my choosing), it automatically debits a preset amount (of my choosing). It's very convenient. I never have to worry about if I have enough cash on me, or if my balance is sufficient for a ride.

You would think this would be the incentive they need to boost ridership. In other words, cash fares don't include transfers (sorry, no way to track it), but pre-paid passes do carry a time stamp which allows for free transfers.

It seems like a no-brainer.

Edit; a side note. My "Clipper Card" is a great example of how well things can work when various agencies cut the bs and work together. With the same card, using the same balance, I can pay for the following;

BART- subway

Muni- SF bus/LRT/cable cars

AC Transit- East Bay bus service

Caltrain- commuter rail

Golden Gate Ferry- ferry service

VTA- San Jose bus/LRT

GG bridge toll

Various parking

Airport parking

It's very convenient.

Edited August 20, 2013 by nashvillwill

[bwithers1]

What I am always told by MTA bus drivers is that if I need to take more than one bus to get somewhere that I should buy a day pass because it would be cheaper than buying four bus fares.  Since no combination of buses will get me to where i work, I typically only take buses for dowtown trips, etc, and so I just suck it up.  But I can see how people who need to take the bus more than occasionally, but not necessarily daily, which would warrant a monthly pass, could rack up some serious double fares.

 

When I lived in Chicago, there were free transfers between trains (at stations where both trains stopped) but otherwise transfers between buses or between buses and trains cost something like $0.25 using the swipe cards other than day passes or monthly passes. These stops could be tracked similar to the way NashvilleWill describes.  The transfer was valid for up to two hours from the first boarding.  That shouldn't be too difficult for Nashville to implement.  It sounds like this is planned for the Amp, which could pave the way for a system-wide rollout.

[UTgrad09]

For public transportation to succeed in Nashville, it needs to be easy to use. It sounds like free transfers would be a great way to help accomplish that.

 

Right now, it seems that the primary users are those individuals that must use it (those without cars). The rest is probably made up of transit enthusiasts who would rather go out of their way to use public transit than drive a car, and those fortunate few individuals that live and work or go to school along the same bus line, and people like Brett that use it for what are more or less recreational trips downtown.

 

Nashville needs to increase the ease of use so that people can access more areas of town without a ton of trouble. Free transfers would open up the door for mini-hubs to be created in other areas of town where people could avoid having to go through downtown to get to their destinations. Aside from working on rapid transit (both BRT and hopefully more commuter rail eventually), I think the most important thing for MTA to work on is cross town routes...circle routes to cross the spokes. The university connector is a start. But what about having a way for folks in Antioch to get to work in Hermitage? Cross town routes could be express routes that only stop at the major spokes.

[rookzie]

The one on the top is the current Gallatin Road BRT bus, not one of the proposals, and that photo is taken in what sadly is one of the more attractive stretches of Gallatin Road's commercial areas, in this case in Inglewood.  But those are pretty nice buses and they are heavily used.  I use them quite a bit when I am coming downtown for something.  They are no different than the articulated buses that I and 2 million of my closest friends who lived along Chicago's lakefront used to get to and from work everyday.  Remember, even in Chicago, the  majority of CTA riders use buses exclusively or mostly.

 

 

If we ended up with buses like these, I assure you I wouldn't mind one bit, and I would totally be satisfied with not having LRT. This bus is sexy! However, I think that's highly unlikely.

 

 

 

Anyway's, I'm happy about Dean looking into some sort of mass transit, and either way it would be a positve thing for the city. I do hope that BRT is successful, and that it ends up being a catalyst for other forms of mass transit as well.

 

Hi, I new to this group.  My klutzy feet "stumbled" and "tripped over" this forum, and I am very blessed with all you guys and your spectrum of thoughts and contributions.  I no longer fell alone and insecure in my feelings about Metro Nashville's administrations current (and past) and foreseeable plans and decision on transit.

 

Double-articulateds (although not as radical-looking as that in mirydi's post) appear to not be as uncommon as one might think, in other countries, particularly areas with densely, high-ratio utilized surface public transit, compared to privately occupied surface traffic.

 

As far as what might be expected for rolling stock on the West-End - Five-Points AMP is concerned, several articulated coaches currently are in service (since March 2013) on the official startup of the No. 55 Murfreesboro Road BRT Lite service.  These units can be observed entering and departing MC-Central with 15-min headways on weekdays. These appear to have been delivered as "Xcelsior" units, by New Flyer Industries (based in Winnipeg, Manitoba, with assembly plants in Minnesota), and could very well be a "prototype" for the AMP.  The reason that I say that these Xcelsior units are a "prototype" is that they were delivered to the MTA with left-side doors (in addition to right-side doors), in probable anticipation and preparation for eventual use on the dedicated center-lane service.   As far as I have heard, the West-End AMP is the only immediately foreseen project expected to utilize left-side doors and boarding "islands" at center lanes and .  These buses are of more traditional contemporary design lines and have a somewhat "cleaner", minimalistic appearance, than that of the rakish, tapered-front North American Bus Industries (NABI, of Anniston, AL) articulateds delivered to Nashville MTA in 2009-2010 (I call 'em "diesel-electric worms").  While the external appearance is not nearly as important as the interior amenities and functionality, nevertheless, I feel that the external design of the NABI engineer could been a bit more conservative, instead of going with a "radical" style as I see it. 

 

I am not yet allowed to post any images, so hopefully the URL links will provide valid illustrations

 

NABI (North American Bus Industries) - Nashville MTA

http://www.flickr.com/photos/transitalk/6479991667/

 

To effectively be considered as a physical infrastructure, however, whether I (we) "like" BRT or LRT appears of little relevance, if the decision has been all but finalized to start with the AMP BRT.  Instead the success in part will be determined by how well the constituents are integrated with one another.  To me, real-time annunciating signage, pre-emptive traffic signaling, streetscaping and center stations, with ANY style of articulated buses, comprises little if any sense of permanence and definition as a facility to the public, if dedicated right-of-way is implemented as just painted pavement with markings (rather than replacing asphalt with some more "inert" material).  Even a fleet of station wagons could be made enticing (arguably , [LOL]), if the busways are done with a sense of seriousness.

 

New Flyer Industries Xcelsior (started Nashville service, March 2013)

http://www.newflyer.com/index/xcelsior

 

http://www.newflyer.com/index/2012_11_19_nashville_award

 

New Flyer Announces Acquisition of North American Bus Industries, Inc.

http://www.newswire.ca/en/story/1188099/new-flyer-announces-acquisition-of-north-american-bus-industries-inc-and-extends-senior-credit-facility-to-2017

 

The rear of the NABI units reminds me of a design emulating the 1940s style rounded-end observation cars once seen on some American streamlined named passenger trains of the mid-20th century -- more like an observation car on steroids.  Rather than having a design based on a "new-age", gaudy [tacky] body-line flow, as that of the NABI design, the functionally "clean" appearance of the Xcelsior units at least would tend to maintain some bus-styling "vogue" classic appearance, without appearing too generic.   From my unsolicited personal opinion, the NABI units appear somewhat of a distraction, whenever I'm driving behind one of those things, and that makes me wonder just what the engineers were smoking, when they made that design a production consensus.  The "blackout" door-window fenestration of the Xcelsior units renders a rather simple profile with primarily rectilinear styling, in favor of rounded corners (reminiscent of that of the former GMC/RTS/Nova single units of the late 1970s and remaining in Nashville MTA service until 2012).

I have yet to have ridden the New Rider Xcelsior units, which at first seemed confined to the 55X route; very recently, the  Xcelsior's have turned up on the 24X Bellevue Express.   I have had numerous occasions in riding the NABI artic's.  During their debut into service during spring 2010 (well after the May-Day flood), I managed to catch a ride on these applied to a number of "unlikely" locals, which by all indication only served as a marketing promotional of these units: No. 7-Hillsboro, 2-Belmont, 8-Lipscomb, and various others throughout the system.  Currently, most are assigned to the 30-series "X" (express) services (e.g. Madison, Tusculum, Antioch, Rivergate-Vanderbilt) and of course to the 56X Gallatin Pike BRT.  More recently the NABI artic's have been seen in dedicated service on the new 86X LaVergne/Smyrna Express.  The NABI units often are seen to "pool" upon the changing demand during the weekday, to protect the No. 60 Blue Circuit (from Riverfront MCS station to Farmers' Market) during morning peak, and then to serve other corridors during the day.

The last time I rode one of these (on my way to pick up my car from the shop in North Madison), I noticed an unusually loud transmission-gear whine, which would alternate regularly in intensity levels as the bus would accelerate and coast to meet traffic demands.  This suggests that, either these units have a questionable power-train design, or maintenance thereof has not been up to par.  In either event, these NABI units seem way too new to be having driveline problems already.  Otherwise the hybrid power design makes ride and the vehicle as a whole rather quiet, given the deplorable condition of many sections along Gallatin Road (especially when one rides near the center or near the rear axle).  I think that the Nashville MTA management and the mayor somehow became "wowed" with appearance the NABI artic's, although admittedly, I have no idea of the bidding process for the Requests-for-Proposal's submitted to various coach manufacturers, leading to their purchase.

New Rider Industries is the same firm which supplied Cleveland's Euclid Avenue Healthline BRT units, and also Eugene's [Oregon] EmX units.

 

Cleveland RTA HealthLine New Flyer DE60LF-BRT

 

 

The firm also recently was awarded contract by King County Metro Transit of Seattle to build a half a thousand or so Xcelsior electric-trolley transit buses, in both  40’ and 60’ configurations.   If you've ever visited Seattle, you've noticed its rather extensive system of trolley buses, both single and artic. units.  Similarly, the 60’ version is also intended to supplement or replace aging 40’ units of San Francisco's Muni.

 

Seattle (King County Metro) - rendering

http://kingcounty.gov/transportation/kcdot/NewsCenter/NewsReleases/2013/June/nr06172013_trolleycontract.aspx

 

Again, thanks for the rich input and detailed plan rationales offered from all.

 

 

[UTgrad09]

Excellent first post, and welcome to the forum. Very interesting info on the bus situation.

[nashvillwill]

Wow rookzie! Great first post. It's good to have another transit nerd on these boards (no offense, I used the term "nerd" with love). We often debate the styling of buses in general terms, but you seem to have a deep grasp of knowledge on the subject. I'm looking forward to more post from you.

[dmillsphoto]

Welcome to the discussion, Rookzie. Great info!

[Nashville Cliff]

...The reason that I say that these Xcelsior units are a "prototype" is that they were delivered to the MTA with left-side doors (in addition to right-side doors), in probable anticipation and preparation for eventual use on the dedicated center-lane service.  

 

...To me, real-time annunciating signage, pre-emptive traffic signaling, streetscaping and center stations, with ANY style of articulated buses, comprises little if any sense of permanence and definition as a facility to the public, if dedicated right-of-way is implemented as just painted pavement with markings (rather than replacing asphalt with some more "inert" material).

 

Great post. There was a sales rep from Xcelsior stationed with one of the left-side door Route 55X buses at the Earth Day exhibit in Centennial Park this past spring.  He said they were the same buses that would be used for the Amp.

 

My understanding is that the dedicated lanes will also include a low curb to separate them from other traffic.

[nashvillwill]

A politician getting her name out there as an opponent to BRT. Little surprise;

http://m.bizjournals.com/nashville/morning_call/2013/08/harwell-hesitant-on-new-nashville-bus.html

[nashvillwill]

This may be old news, or posted already, but I just ran across it, so I thought I would share.

The Music City Star now has a regular late Friday night train. Leaves Riverfront Station at 10:30 pm on Fridays;

http://www.musiccitystar.org/pdf_News/n205.pdf

This is good news. I understand that 1 additional train is not a big deal, especially when it's only for a Friday night, but I think it shows some very important clues.

1. Ridership is up and able to support a non-commuter hour train.

2. People are considering the star as a reasonable alternative to driving.

3. The RTA is willing to expand service if there is a demand.

I hope this additional train is just a baby step towards more service. I would love for the Star to get busy enough so that it can become operational during all hours of the day, with very little headway. Currently, I think many would-be riders are apprehensive to using it because of the current schedule. Understandable so. The current schedule seems to fit a very 8-4 type of work schedule, so people who must work flexible hours ("what if I get off late/early?") are mostly left stranded. Once service gets to a point that riders can stop worrying which train they have to catch and can simple count on another train in 15-30 minutes (regardless of time of day), then I think ridership will boom exponentially.

I hope that becomes the case in the near future for the Star. If it does, I think it has a very bright future (pun intended).

[UTgrad09]

That is promising. It's certainly attractive because it would be cheaper than a cab ride of that distance.

 

I'd like to see them add another one that leaves at midnight or 12:30. 

 

 

If they ever do a Murfreesboro route, I guarantee that one will support a lot of non-commuter trips (especially for MTSU students).

[bigeasy]

Murfreesboro route would be awesome. Would be so cool if you could go to school there but still get to live downtown and not have to worry about the awful commute or traffic

[nashvillwill]

That is promising. It's certainly attractive because it would be cheaper than a cab ride of that distance.

I'd like to see them add another one that leaves at midnight or 12:30.

If they ever do a Murfreesboro route, I guarantee that one will support a lot of non-commuter trips (especially for MTSU students).

Meh, while I would love people to use transit instead of drinking and driving, that's not quite what I was getting at.

Here is the current schedule (Riverfront-east only)

6:58

7:45

8:25

4:20

5:05

5:45

10:30 (Fridays only)

I would like to see this as a start(daily);

5:45*

6:58

7:45

8:25

10:30*

12:00*

1:30*

2:30*

3:30*

4:20

5:05

5:45

6:45*

8:15*

11:00*

(* denotes trains that I've added)

Basically the same going westbound. I think this would be a good foundation for a true "regional rail".

[UTgrad09]

It's not just about drinking and driving. There are tons of events downtown on a nightly basis. Believe me, if I could take a train downtown and not have to worry about parking, I'd do it in a heartbeat. I think it would definitely be something people would use for Titans and Preds games...not to mention the regular parade of major concerts and things like CMA Fest.

 

Yes, the trains should be commuter first...but being able to utilize them for events might attract people that wouldn't normally consider public transit.

[nashvillwill]

Well, I agree with you for sure. They do offer the "Game Day Express" for Titans games. I would like to see a similar service added for Preds games, but I think the BRT could fill that void (for westbound folks) and I'm not so sure that the Preds crowd could fill a train along that route. I could be wrong, but we are talking 1/5 as many game attendees, therefore 1/5 as many potential Star customers.

I get what you are saying and they are very valid points. I guess my point is that if there was already frequent service, special events wouldn't be so "special". Do you know what I mean? Titans games on a Sunday may be able to fill a special train or two, but on a weeknight, Preds fans mixed with regular commuters could be a good basis for a timetable slot. Sure, when the Preds don't play, the train may not run at peak capacity, but there are certainly plenty of employees of downtown service industries that get off at or around 8-9 pm (or 9-5'ers who hang around town late because they know they can count on a train).

Either way, I would like to see more evening slots added to the timetable. Even if its not as frequent as I mentioned above, a little something more would be a good start.

Such as;

5:45 (last train currently scheduled)

7:45

9:45 (most Preds games are over by then)

10:30 (Friday only)

I would at least like to see them try it for a month or so.

Edited August 27, 2013 by nashvillwill

[nashvillwill]

I will add this note from my personal experience. In the Bay Area, there is a commuter line called Caltrain. It basically runs from San Jose to San Francisco. One of the southernmost stops is right at the doors of HP Pavilion (where the NHL Sharks play). The last train of the night leaves about the time games typically let out. They do hold the train for games that run a little longer than expected in regulation (no overtime, sorry). Therefore, fans can watch the full regulation game and dont have to fear being stranded. It's really convinient for fans and as a result, trains are typically packed with Sharks fans.

I would love to see that in Nashville.

[rookzie]

That is promising. It's certainly attractive because it would be cheaper than a cab ride of that distance.

 

I'd like to see them add another one that leaves at midnight or 12:30. 

 

 

If they ever do a Murfreesboro route, I guarantee that one will support a lot of non-commuter trips (especially for MTSU students).

 

 

Meh, while I would love people to use transit instead of drinking and driving, that's not quite what I was getting at.

Here is the current schedule (Riverfront-east only)

6:58

7:45

8:25

4:20

5:05

5:45

10:30 (Fridays only)

I would like to see this as a start(daily);

5:45*

6:58

7:45

8:25

10:30*

12:00*

1:30*

2:30*

3:30*

4:20

5:05

5:45

6:45*

8:15*

11:00*

(* denotes trains that I've added)

Basically the same going westbound. I think this would be a good foundation for a true "regional rail".

I have trouble recalling where I had read something in the local media during the last six weeks or so, but it appears that the RTA has proposed applying for funding, in concert with the needs of the hosting Nashville & Eastern (N&E) RR (for the current Music City Star), to build a second passing siding somewhere along mid-route between Riverfront and Lebanon stations.  For the September 2006 start-up service of the MCS, one siding was added just east of Donelson Pike (its west-most termination at the Donelson Bowl bowling alley).  This first siding was necessary to accommodate the current morning and afternoon commuter running schedules of three trains each way.  In practice however, one of these runs, one in the morning and one in the afternoon, actually travels between Riverfront and Mount Juliet only, because of scheduling headway to allow for the two trainsets protecting the runs.  The addition of a second siding would permit all three runs, in both morning and afternoon, to run the entire distance between Lebanon and Riverfront, on effectively a single track run.  Additionally, from an operational standpoint, the second siding theoretically could allow for eventual increase in the number of runs between the Riverfront and Lebanon.

 

Several improvements have been undertaken since the start-up, along the stretch of the N&E RR between Lebanon and Riverfont, and this segment is the only portion of the N&E to become certified by the FRA (Federal Railroad Assn) for passenger commuter service.  One upgrade was the construction of a new main for the MCS to bypass the N&E yard, between Driftwood and Stanley Streets (roughly paralleling Nestor Street), north of Hermitage Ave. at Fairfield Ave.  This came with two new concrete bridges (RR underpasses) over Stanley and Driftwood.  East of SR 109 an alignment was made to separate the main from US 70 (Nashville Pike) from the railroad by eliminating an existing grade crossing and replacing it with a new RR bridge.  Yet another more recent alignment was done to ease the main grade west of SR109 (at Martha) and to bridge 109 over the RR, thus eliminating another major grade crossing (since the MCS approaches and departures from the MCS Martha station created major traffic backup along the ever busier SR109).  Many other changes had to be implemented to the Riverfront-Lebanon stretch, some not as dramatic appearing as others - converting to signaled territory; beefing up grade-crossing signals; grade-crossing reconditioning; track upgrades for most of the route; and of course, the new stations and ticket kiosks and the trains themselves (acquired secondhand from other agencies and being outsourced for reconditioning).  Oh yeah, I almost forgot to mention the aerial bridge improvements over SR155.

 

Needless to say, a whole lot goes into upgrading a line for heavy-rail commuter - locomotive push-pull or otherwise, especially when the baseline is in deplorable condition to start.  This is where Federal funding and shared state and regional (county and/or municipal) funding are utilized in concert.

 

There will be a point in time when the entire route will have to be double-tracked (also with sidings) to scale and to maximize the capacity and operation of the route.  And yes, a point was posted by UTgrad09 (27 February 2013) that the Riverfront station would be orphaned, if all MCS routes of the regional RTA "spokes" come to fruition.  The Riverfront station, in a prime, activity-centric location, cannot practically serve a comprehensive and scalable heavy-rail network or corridors for a medium-sized extended metro area as mid-state Tenn.  Let me mention Chicago, which of course has the volume, density, and sprawl (Cook and surrounding counties of IL and northern Indiana), and has several commuter-rail stations in its CBD (currently four main terminals serving one or more major routes).  While two of these terminal are relatively within close walking distance of each other (Ogilvie Center and Chi. Union Station), they are nevertheless all separate and distinct.  This is historic in nature, due to Chicago being a national central point for intercity trains, back before air travel ruled, even back when commuter trains were steam-hauled and shared terminals with the intercity trains.  But the shear number of trains into and out of that city even now "requires" that core segmentation and separation, just as a busy airport would need several terminals, from a transportation operational standpoint to offset congestion.

 

Historically, on a much smaller scale than Chicago, Nashville did have two separately passenger stations - the former Tennessee Central Railway station (TC, now part of the Nashville and Eastern [N&E]), which had been located on 1st Ave. just south of the current Riverfront station, and south of the Shelby Street bridge (the site of the former Thermal Transfer plant used to be a passenger coach yard and freight combined); and Union Station at 10thAve. and Broadway, which (as you "elder" natives recall) served the Louisville & Nashville (L&N) and the Nashville Chattanooga, and St. Louis Railway (NC&St.L), now all part of CSX. (see http://www.abandonedrails.com/Tennessee_Central_Railroad for historic account of the TC)  Passenger service on the TC ran from Nashville to Harriman, TN (via Lebanon, Cookeville, and Crossville) until 1955.  Passenger service though Union Station (branch routes having been cut back steadily from Korean War days through 1971) lasted until Oct. 1979).  Unfortunately, I foresee logistically the necessary use, for quite some time into the distant future, of both Riverfront and some other larger terminal, either at or near Union Station, for all MCS future service, because no direct connection exists between the former TC (now N&E) and the CSX rights of way.

 

Even if the RTA or some yet unborn agency were to acquire full control of most city terminal trackage and the leads to it, in order to reroute trains from Riverfront, it would have to use the what is referred to as the "Southern Junction" a semi-circular "sector" of trackage, extending from the N&E MCS passenger route from a point near Lebanon Pike and Fessler Lane across Lafayette St, along the western border of Trevecca Nazarane University, across Nolensville Rd., along the south edge of Craighead Ave. (across from the state fairgounds) and joining the CSX main with a north-trailing switch (converging toward the south, and away from the city) just behind the Melrose Post Office (at the northeast corner of the I-440/I65 confluence).  This branch connector could be used to convey current eastern branch commuter service to a "main" leading to a central passenger terminal at, say, the Gulch area, but if you follow this on the map, you'd see that the Southern Junction connection is "way" out of the way to bring eastern branch trains to the "new" main.  Heavy rail commuter service, and even any other type of service, passenger or freight for that matter, rarely follows a new right-of-way, not currently close to an existing right-of-way.  In practice, right-of-way is often abandoned, often never to be reclaimed, unless "railbanking" provisions are established by agencies to preserve and to recover little used or rail corridors temporarily converted to trails or to other non-rail use.  This is another reason that I say that it would likely be impractical to pool all MCS routes into a single common station terminal at Nashville.  It would be highly improbable that a swath of land could be acquired (by imminent domain or otherwise), to "bridge" the Lebanon route to a new "main". The exising and remaining infrastructure base was built long before any of us guys (or even our grandparents) were around, or conceived.  We are lucky that even the lead to Riverfront was left intact, when it almost was completely abandoned during around 1986 or so.  In 1980 there still even was an in service live freight track, leading from behind the Thermal Transfer Plant, clear up the cobblestone on 1st Ave. North to Commerce Street (back when the 2nd Ave district had just begun to take on an "historic" flavor a few years earlier)  That's all ripped up now, or paved over (just as are the inbound and outbound trolley rails along Belmont Blvd and along Jefferson Street).

 

Now as far as service between Murfreesboro and Nashville is concerned, IMO it arguably would be a "total sale" for ridership, given the virtual effect of both cities seemingly becoming more contiguous through annexation and development along US41 and I-24 (and Old Nashville Pike), and the number of "heads" passing back and forth daily between the two community centers.  Working with CSX as a business, and obtaining the enormous capital required to assist CSX in easing its current congestion woes, while effectively separating CSX mainline freight operations from commuter-rail (and eventually Amtrak intercity) is an entire volume of discussion in its own right.

 

I even envisioned commuter rail along the Nashville-M'boro stretch as far back as July 1970, when I rode some of the last service southeast out of Nashville south to Chatta. and Atlanta (L&N trains N°3 & 4, the "Georgian"). By then it was down to a remnant of what it had been when I rode it back in the early '60s - by this late in time down to an engine, a baggage car, and a coach (or two during holiday season), but nevertheless it still was a train.  By then, though, M'boro was only a flag-stop between Atlanta and Nashville (an on to Evansville and to St. Louis).  Back then I-24 was fairly new but incomplete (as well as was I-65 and I-40).  When Amtrak was formed and took over most US passenger service on May 1, 1971, St. Louis-Nashville-Atlanta service was immediately discontinued.  I think that only about a dozen of us were on that night train to Georgia (around 01:30 hours departure southbound), so even in 1970 it was running on a wing and a prayer.  Most passengers seem to have boarded in St. Louis, Chatta., Smyrna, Ga. or Atlanta, depending on the direction, and I even felt somewhat "naked" being one of perhaps only 2 or 3 passengers at most to have boarded or detrained at Nashville Union Station.

 

Fast-forward to now.  Just imagine the changes in demographics and the patronage of service on that same route (as that former "Georgian") that could be serving Springfield, TN, Greenbrier, Goodlettesville [yes, even G'ville was still on the official timetable back then], Amqui, on the north-northwest, and all the same points southeast now served by RTA buses to M'boro.   I suspect that any train service lasting that long, along that north-northwest-to-southeast corridor (why still needing state subsidy [as with rail agencies of any other state]), would have had to be augmented with quite a few more cars by now (you think?).  As a contrast, the state of NC began subsidizing a new Amtrak service (prior service dropped in spring 1964) between Raleigh and Charlotte in 1990 and this service has been increased twice since then to three trains each way, each train being nearly fully booked (with up to eight cars each).  While one of these train actually travels on to Richmond and Fredericksburg Va. and to DC, many riders are state locals who ride to work across the state or who travel to schools (in the linked communities).  While the mid-Atlantic never lost passenger service to begin with (not for long anyway), despite the difference in dynamics of the travel targets within the regions of the Mid-Atlantic compared to mid-Tenn., NC never became totally apathetic to rail travel.  Actually Charlotte NC and Norfolk (my home for 12 years) have become "mini-success stories" since during the last 5 years both towns have established either one of or both light-rail and Amtrak.  In a sense, intercity and commuter rail (or light rail) tend to coexist as a synergy.

 

My point in seeming to digress is to illustrate the difference in mentality among two different southern metropolitan regions, which in essence have similar populations, but which have totally different constituencies when it comes to  regional rail travel.  I guess that it's a whole lot easier to get something else, when you already have something to start.  Pardon me please, if you will, for rambling.  I'll try not to do so often.

[captainwjm]

Informative post, thanks! My recollection is that most of the old TC r/w west of Murfreesboro Rd was taken for the 440 footprint.