The Transportation and Mass Transit Megathread

[timmay143]

 Oh nooooooo, not mass transit everywhere!!!!
 

"If we do something like this for Nashville, we're going to have projects pop up in Memphis, Knoxville, etc."

[Guest]

Well. I think the context is that there is not enough money to fund this everywhere thus why should Nashville receive the funds. It comes out the same day as the story detailing the backlog of 8 billion worth of TDOT projects.

Also, I would imagine her constituents are flooding her phones as she covers West Nashville where 'Stop AMP' signs proliferate.

 

 

 

 Oh nooooooo, not mass transit everywhere!!!!
 

Edited November 8, 2013 by Guest

[FrankNash]

Call her office I just did #615-741-0709. It's not like she's from some county that may not understand how bad the traffic is on the west end? Why does Nashville have to fight every time we try to do something that has proven to work elsewhere. Middle Tennessee is the reason the state has any growth to begin with, stop blocking us from moving forward!

[nashvillwill]

"At this point in time, we have an $8 billion wish list for highway project funds that are already backlogged," said Harwell......

Let's see: $35m/$8b= 0.4375%

So, the state funding for AMP will cost less than 0.5% of our Highway "wish list". That will destroy all roads, I say!!!!!

"The state's responsibility isn't just to Nashville and we have the serious possibility of losing some highway funds from the federal government."

Kinda like having the serious certainty of loosing federal transportation funds, if we don't do the AMP?

[rookzie]

Oh nooooooo, not mass transit everywhere!!!!

 

 

Well. I think the context is that there is not enough money to fund this everywhere thus why should Nashville receive the funds. It comes out the same day as the story detailing the backlog of 8 billion worth of TDOT projects.

...

...

Let's see: $35m/$8b= 0.4375%

So, the state funding for AMP will cost less than 0.5% of our Highway "wish list". That will destroy all roads, I say!!!!!

"The state's responsibility isn't just to Nashville and we have the serious possibility of losing some highway funds from the federal government."

Kinda like having the serious certainty of loosing federal transportation funds, if we don't do the AMP?

 

 “Harwell said that it is difficult generate support from "members in Memphis and Chattanooga to fund projects that are not in their districts."

 

Despite the just-announced Metro and State agreement concerning land-exchange for the Sulphur Dell Ball Park project (in a manner not unlike the recent UN-“New-Iran”-like [nuclear] optimistic talks), Metro-Davidson has had an epic history of chafing relations with the state legislature.

 

No surprise here, from Harwell or from the rest.  This also is not an uncommon song-n-dance chorus from most states with displaced priorities, in particular, those with a critical need to offset a severely lopsided, unbalanced (or “flat-lined") transportation network – intercity or urban-centric.  This is what I had alluded to in one of my earliest posts back last August, in reference to comparing Tennessee to its mid-Atlantic neighbors of N.C. and Va.  Tennessee always has held foremost as gospel the funding of earmarked roadway projects.  Just like zits on a high-schooler, roadway “improvements” never, ever will stop happening – they just won’t.  Most amount to replacements or at most upgrades, but rarely can be construed truly as infrastructure improvements.

 

 

No, Fed funding for major upstarts here never will get off the ground, with this mindset persistently stoked with the coals of negativism against non-road undertakings.  But then again, as I've emphasized again and again, the city never "squirreled" away in the past for funding the AMP or any other real transit initiatives, and this visible (if not impending) funding "roadblock", as it were, is not unexpected.

 

All I will say further is that it’s now getting “hot up in here”, so to speak (a now coined “urban” phrase).  As usual, I have rambled and motored my mouth way too much on these matters, such that I just need to shut my ass up, for a change.  I need to just lie in wait to listen to the dialog of others, while refraining from ‘”pouncing” upon impulse.  I get too passionate about foolish “dogmatiX” (dogma) that only seems to impede progress like barnacles on a ship’s hull.

 

Unless anyone does address me with direct a statement, then I’m outta view, but I’m a watchin’…

 

-=ricky-roox=-

Edited November 9, 2013 by rookzie

[mirydi]

Is it me, or does Nashville seem like the only city in the country that has to fight this hard to get some kind of mass transit going? Is there any other city in the country this size that doesn't have some sort of mass transit already? (BRT,LRT, Street car, ect)  Can the city really not find $35 million dollars in the budget for this? How much was the "sticks" project again?

[Hey_Hey]

I wish metro would find some projects in Davidson County that currently on the state's list of roadway projects and "trade" them for funding for AMP. A great target IMO is the straightening of Donelson Pk between the airport and I-40. That is a $70 million project, and it's one that I can't see how we can justify paying for it. It won't dramatically increase capacity, and there's really not a problem there anyway. Lets shift money from this project and apply it to AMP.

[UTgrad09]

I wish metro would find some projects in Davidson County that currently on the state's list of roadway projects and "trade" them for funding for AMP. A great target IMO is the straightening of Donelson Pk between the airport and I-40. That is a $70 million project, and it's one that I can't see how we can justify paying for it. It won't dramatically increase capacity, and there's really not a problem there anyway. Lets shift money from this project and apply it to AMP.

 

Agreed.

[Guest]

I wish metro would find some projects in Davidson County that currently on the state's list of roadway projects and "trade" them for funding for AMP. A great target IMO is the straightening of Donelson Pk between the airport and I-40. That is a $70 million project, and it's one that I can't see how we can justify paying for it. It won't dramatically increase capacity, and there's really not a problem there anyway. Lets shift money from this project and apply it to AMP.

That, in my opinion, is great thinking outside of the box. Bravo!

[bwithers1]

Is it me, or does Nashville seem like the only city in the country that has to fight this hard to get some kind of mass transit going? Is there any other city in the country this size that doesn't have some sort of mass transit already? (BRT,LRT, Street car, ect)  Can the city really not find $35 million dollars in the budget for this? How much was the "sticks" project again?

Personally, I'd rather have the AMP than the baseball stadium.  Not saying that I am opposed to the baseball stadium per se.  But if I had to choose between paying for one or the other, I would go with the AMP.

Edited November 12, 2013 by bwithers1

[nashvylle]

Personally, I'd rather have the AMP than the baseball stadium.  Not saying that I am opposed to the baseball stadium per se.  But if I had to choose between paying for one or the other, I would go with the AMP.

My thoughts exactly!

[RandomHero]

While I am all in favor of public transit I think the proponents of the AMP need to do a better job of projecting a unified face for the AMP and do a far more coherent job of promoting its benefits and impacts. I have no idea what entity is representing the AMPs interests in the face off opposition from state lawmakers and affluent west end residents. Is it the mayor, a splattering of citizens groups, young East Nashville activists, a couple of local businesses? What is the face of this thing? And why is there not one unified front out touting how the city will benefit and countering complaints by the opposition? It's easy for opponents to say that taking away two lanes of traffic and adding a bunch of buses on west end will create congestion. I have yet to hear aggressive counter arguments to those claims outside of some document produced by the MTA or some local design group. The average citizen does not read publications put out by MTA. If you want this thing done then start handing out info outside of Titans/Preds games, get some billboard space going and get a visible spokesperson. Create a sense of urgency about this thing and use the "Nashville is a Boomtown" moniker to bring this thing to the front page everyday. 

 

Sorry for the rant and I understand this is a complicated matter but I am growing tired of AMP proponents complaining about the opposition when I see no unified strategy to push this forward.

 

Personally, I'd rather have the AMP than the baseball stadium.  Not saying that I am opposed to the baseball stadium per se.  But if I had to choose between paying for one or the other, I would go with the AMP.

[timmay143]

While I am all in favor of public transit I think the proponents of the AMP need to do a better job of projecting a unified face for the AMP and do a far more coherent job of promoting its benefits and impacts. I have no idea what entity is representing the AMPs interests in the face off opposition from state lawmakers and affluent west end residents. Is it the mayor, a splattering of citizens groups, young East Nashville activists, a couple of local businesses? What is the face of this thing? And why is there not one unified front out touting how the city will benefit and countering complaints by the opposition? It's easy for opponents to say that taking away two lanes of traffic and adding a bunch of buses on west end will create congestion. I have yet to hear aggressive counter arguments to those claims outside of some document produced by the MTA or some local design group. The average citizen does not read publications put out by MTA. If you want this thing done then start handing out info outside of Titans/Preds games, get some billboard space going and get a visible spokesperson. Create a sense of urgency about this thing and use the "Nashville is a Boomtown" moniker to bring this thing to the front page everyday. 

 

Sorry for the rant and I understand this is a complicated matter but I am growing tired of AMP proponents complaining about the opposition when I see no unified strategy to push this forward.

 

http://ampyes.org/

 

https://www.facebook.com/NashvilleAMP

 

https://twitter.com/NashvilleAmp

[Guest]

A good read from Frank that hits on the discussion.

http://www.tennessean.com/article/20131110/COLUMNIST0111/311100055

 

 

Though I think the Amp is a good opportunity to begin to make West Nashville more connected to downtown and East Nashville — and would offer the chance to have higher-value, better-looking and more interesting development — it is easy to understand the bow-wave of opposition. The short-term impact will be uncomfortable, and in some cases harmful, for those who currently rely on West End and the small businesses along the road, and their concerns must be addressed to make the project successful.

[Nathan_in_DC]

A good read from Frank that hits on the discussion.

http://www.tennessean.com/article/20131110/COLUMNIST0111/311100055

 

 

Really glad that he calls out Jim Cooper for being completely useless in this situation.  I'm all for fiscal responsibility, but this is hardly irresponsible.  His intrangisence on the matter is unexplainable.

[MLBrumby]

Plus Cooper voted for Obamacare, which the CBO now projects will cost three times more than originally announced (and counting!).  By comparison, voting for mass transit is far more fiscally responsible... at least, it's contingent on local funding sources.

[Hey_Hey]

I signed up as an individual supporter on the Ampyes.org website. Hopefully there will be a yard sign in my front yard in a few days. I can walk to the nearest proposed amp stop in 10-15 minutes and I view it as a major boost to my property values in addition to being good for the city.

[nashvylle]

The AMP is not going to happen in my opinion. Lea Beaman is afraid The AMP is going to divert drivers away from his ugly car dealership parking lots and he is rallying up all of his backward thinking friends with his $. I will not support Beth Harwell, Bill Haslam, and will continue to not support Jim Cooper. I cannot believe we don't have 1 cent of our transportation funds doesn't go to legitimate mass transit. All the stomp amp nimbys had a press release on the Tennessean and they were saying that "Nashville needs mass transit that gets people into our city, not when they get here". what a bunch of BS. While I do agree Nashville has mass transit issues getting people into our city, what the hell are they going to get around the city once they are here? Ride the existing bus system that stops every 2 blocks and sits in existing traffic? If we do get a mass transit proposal, such as a legit commuter rail, these same people are going to cry that it is too expensive, a "boondoggle", and will have Stomp Commuter Rail t-shirts. Then Beth Harwell, Haslam, and Cooper will say we need to invest more billions in our highways, not realizing that the biggest boondoggle is the belief that oil is unlimited, highways are free to construct and maintain, gas is inexpensive, and all the smog will not have an effect on Nashville's air. It is inexcusable that Nashville has zero mass transit in this city, minus the Music City Star. We should be striving to be a leader in mass transit, yet we have too many people still living in the hayday of the automobile. Wake up.

 

http://nashvillepost.com/blogs/postpolitics/2013/11/25/tdot_throws_cold_water_on_amp_funding

 

Thank you Karl Dean for fighting for what needs to be done. Hope it happens.

[timmay143]

If anyone is in support of the AMP, feel free to sign the petition.

 

http://ampyes.org/sign-petition/

 

TN poll, if interested.

 

http://www.tennessean.com/interactive/article/20131119/PROMO/131119006/POLL-Do-you-support-Amp-

[UTgrad09]

If anyone is in support of the AMP, feel free to sign the petition.

 

http://ampyes.org/sign-petition/

 

TN poll, if interested.

 

http://www.tennessean.com/interactive/article/20131119/PROMO/131119006/POLL-Do-you-support-Amp-

 

Thanks. Petition signed, and commented on the Tennessean article.

[mirydi]

Thanks for the links Timmay. Signed the petition as well and voted in the poll in the Tennessean link. It appears you can vote more than once also...

 

Edit: It wouldn't surprise me if a bunch of the haters are sitting there repeatedly voting no...Lol!

Edited November 26, 2013 by mirydi

[timmay143]

Thanks for the links Timmay. Signed the petition as well and voted in the poll in the Tennessean link. It appears you can vote more than once also...

 

Edit: It wouldn't surprise me if a bunch of the haters are sitting there repeatedly voting no...Lol!

Hehehe, I was doing that for yes.

[nashvylle]

UTGrad09-

 

Thanks for posting on the Tennessean website. I agree with a lot of what you are saying. However, your comment that "we might need to leave this up for the next mayor" concerns me because there is no guarantee that we will be lucky enough to get a mayor who wants mass transit...

 

I would be just as for the BRT if it were on Charlotte, however it's not. I do not think the BRT should go through Harding Road, but it does. However if we kill the whole thing, Nashville won't get anything done for another decade, which is not acceptable.

[UTgrad09]

UTGrad09-

 

Thanks for posting on the Tennessean website. I agree with a lot of what you are saying. However, your comment that "we might need to leave this up for the next mayor" concerns me because there is no guarantee that we will be lucky enough to get a mayor who wants mass transit...

That's a valid concern. We don't know what the next mayor will be like. My concern with Dean right now is that he has so much going on right now that I think there's a possibility for some blowback on this simply because of concerns about the budget and taxes.

I am happy as hell that the mayor advocates public transit, but I'm worried that his approach might actually put the whole thing in jeopardy.

You're likely never going to change some people's minds about rapid transit...but in order to get this to work, Dean needs to worry about getting more allies, not trying to ram it through.

[Neigeville]

That's a valid concern. We don't know what the next mayor will be like. My concern with Dean right now is that he has so much going on right now that I think there's a possibility for some blowback on this simply because of concerns about the budget and taxes.

I am happy as hell that the mayor advocates public transit, but I'm worried that his approach might actually put the whole thing in jeopardy.

You're likely never going to change some people's minds about rapid transit...but in order to get this to work, Dean needs to worry about getting more allies, not trying to ram it through.

 

It's going to take a mixture of allies and ramming.  There's almost always a fight over a rapid transit system when it first starts, and Nashville is reaching a phase where a lot of older people and longtime residents are suddenly figuring out the city is changing beyond recognition and it's alarming them.  They don't want to think of Nashville as a big city with an urban character.