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The Transportation and Mass Transit Megathread


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Nashville bound - thanks for responding. I think you make some very valid points about the Charlotte study. Sorry about the paywall - I bet Vanderbilt's edu network automatically gets past it (so I didn't even know it was there). I also completely agree with you about security cameras/other deterrents in stations and don't understand why they wouldn't address that. It seems like a very minor expense that could do a lot of good.

 

That article was really interesting, but I don't think that the quote you added is representative of the whole article. They were also asking a different question - what is the incidence of crime near stations. As I understand them, their findings were that crime rates at stations correlate with the already existing crime rates in a given neighborhood (and secondarily that transit crime rates are under-reported). 

 

That same group of academics (the exact same authors as your link above) authored another paper on the exact same green line in Los Angeles and asked the exact same question that we seem to be interested in with the AMP: what effects did the implementation of the green line have on crime down the line. Does building a connecting transit line from a high crime rate area to a low crime rate area increase the crime rate in the high income/low crime area? The green line is interesting because it travels through some high crime areas and ends up in a very affluent neighborhood. Link to the whole article is here. Abstract is below:

 

green%20line%20abstract.jpg

As a grad student, I fully appreciate this!  :P

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As is typical for faculty and students at a university, Vanderbilt' library system likely subscribes to John Wiley (under an annual payment contract) and to other online agglomerate publishing services.  Access to these services appears seamless to those having NetID's or some other form of campus authentication.  Without a network proxy, non-VU access would require pay.

 

Since you got me and nashville_bound interested, then If I get around to it, I may see whether or not I can use my account at UIUC (Illinois at Urbana-Champaign) to get a hold of it.

Whoa, you have UIUC access?!  What all can you get?  I might need some papers once I lose my UTK account.  UTK also doesn't have access to much, unlike how I'd imagine how much UIUC does.

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Whoa, you have UIUC access?!  What all can you get?  I might need some papers once I lose my UTK account.  UTK also doesn't have access to much, unlike how I'd imagine how much UIUC does.

 

Sorry for the late reply. Tim.

 

Anyway, while I still have library checkout privilege provisions at UIUC, after finishing grad school 11 years ago, I no longer seem to have access to the online journals, full-text.   The campus proxy prompts for my ID and password, whenever I navigate to subscription resources within the library portal, but the proxy does not accept my account from that context.  I do know that I did have it as long as 4 years after commencement, and I have had to renew my Active Directory account (Kerberos) password every 12 months, unless I don't care that it lapses. (basically I have maintained it for historical purposes, because pack-rats always have this notion that it may come of some avail eventually)   I only can arrange for Interlibrary loan (ILL) of printed materials, something you yourself still may able to do from UTK.  None of this will help you (or me), though, as nothing compares to having online full-text access from the comforts of the home (or phone/tablet).

 

Kudos to 12Mouth, for unwittingly reminding (LoL) me of what I once used to have.  It could have meant that I had been sitting on a gold mine of transit / urban affairs research without even realizing it.

 

-=ricky-roox=-

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Sorry for the late reply. Tim.

 

Anyway, while I still have library checkout privilege provisions at UIUC, after finishing grad school 11 years ago, I no longer seem to have access to the online journals, full-text.   The campus proxy prompts for my ID and password, whenever I navigate to subscription resources within the library portal, but the proxy does not accept my account from that context.  I do know that I did have it as long as 4 years after commencement, and I have had to renew my Active Directory account (Kerberos) password every 12 months, unless I don't care that it lapses. (basically I have maintained it for historical purposes, because pack-rats always have this notion that it may come of some avail eventually)   I only can arrange for Interlibrary loan (ILL) of printed materials, something you yourself still may able to do from UTK.  None of this will help you (or me), though, as nothing compares to having online full-text access from the comforts of the home (or phone/tablet).

 

Kudos to 12Mouth, for unwittingly reminding (LoL) me of what I once used to have.  It could have meant that I had been sitting on a gold mine of transit / urban affairs research without even realizing it.

 

-=ricky-roox=-

Hey no problem!  I've got a friend doing postdoc work at Georgia Tech so he's my go to paper guy! :P

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Was reading this article today and found this to be interesting:

 

Also on Wednesday, Obama will announce the opening of a new round of DOT’s TIGER grants, making $600 million available for projects nationwide.

The new round of competitive grants will place an emphasis on “transformative” projects that will have “significant impact on the nation or a region,” expand job access and increase economic opportunities, or catalyze economic development, the White House said.

 

Does this mean projects that were submitted last year will know if they are approved for the grant or does it mean they are making $600 mil more money available for new projects to be submitted this year

 

When was Dean and Team suppose to find out if they got the grant for the AMP? Is it early 2014 or late 2014?

Read more: http://www.politico.com/story/2014/02/president-obama-transportation-bill-103980.html#ixzz2uR2w3VDj

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Has anyone seen any Music City Star ridership metrics and income vs. expenditures lately?  I really really REALLY want to see a wider commuter service in the area, but it seems like it will not happen in the foreseeable future, if ever.  I think the demand is there though, especially with a line to either Franklin, Dickson or Murfreesboro that ran regular service (that is, more than a couple morning and afternoon trips).

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Has anyone seen any Music City Star ridership metrics and income vs. expenditures lately?  I really really REALLY want to see a wider commuter service in the area, but it seems like it will not happen in the foreseeable future, if ever.  I think the demand is there though, especially with a line to either Franklin, Dickson or Murfreesboro that ran regular service (that is, more than a couple morning and afternoon trips).

 

I am unable to provide any substantiated statistical data.  As far as adding comm-rail along any of the CSX RR spokes is concerned ─ Nashv'l lines toward Atlanta (Murfreesboro), Birmingham (Franklin), Bruceton-Memphis (Dickson), or Louisville (Gallatin) ─ and even to Clarksv'l along the NWRR, you just have to evaluate what has been in discussion during the last 2 years, particularly as of late, concerning funding for any kind of state regional or local transit proposal, period.

 

There will need to evolve a massive change in political sentiment on state and local levels, before any warmth in the climate of any serious and promising discussion occurs in regard to any kind of dramatic expansion in mass transit around the mid-state can even begin to become recognized.  The painful truth of this?  I am afraid that at my age 62 and a half, I probably will not live to even see construction for a second commuter-rail line ─ not even along the "road less traveled" (the line to Dickson).

 

The line to Franklin actually is 2 lines ─ a primary line from Nashv'l to Brentwood, along the main to B'ham, and a secondary line (within that same general RR subdivision) diverging from that primary line and leading to downtown Franklin (passing under Mack Hatcher Pkwy and visible just east of US-31 FrankNash Pike). This secondary line passes through Franklin and on to Spring Hill and to Columbia, where the remainder of this line once owed by CSX predecessors runs to Pulaski and a tertiary branch (from this secondary) leads to Lawrenceburg and to Florence [AL] and was sold as a shortline during the late 1980s.  This secondary line branches off just behind the Brentwood Skating Center, and is used primarily for auto-rack rail cars serving the GM plant in Spring Hill.  While this secondary is not nearly as heavily used as is the main line from which it diverges, the secondary would be necessary for the connection into the heart of Franklin.  (I could envision a park-and-ride to be located just north of "The Factory at Franklin", just of Liberty Pike.)

 

All the CSX lines will require so much extremely expensive funding for upgrades (let alone financing for equipment and operating costs), that such an undertaking in the foreseeable future appears to be at least a generation away, and at best it is only can be envisioned. (I only could pray that I am wrong)  Perhaps it will take that long for a sufficient number of decision-makers to die off and to be succeeded with those who collectively can effect a constitutional change in the perception of mass-transit funding priorities.

 

BTW, if an existing railway is sufficient in infrastructure to accommodate commuter-rail movements at speed, without alignments and super-elevation augmentation on curves, then in theory commuter-rail is the cheapest type of fixed-guide-way (self-steering) mass transit to build (often allowing for secondhand or refurbished rolling stock built to common RR standards, instead of requiring more expensive custom vehicles, as with light-rail or heavy-rail).

 

-=ricky-roox=-

Edited by rookzie
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I went out for a run yesterday and noticed along the Music City Greenway that the CSX (I guess it's theirs) spur that runs along the West Bank is about to be replaced. New ties, rails, everything. Rookzie, you might know what's going on with this. I'm talking about the spur that runs under Jefferson St. from about the Metro Materials cement plant and north through the water treatment facility up to Metro Center. This kind of surprises me because I thought this spur was more or less abandoned - it dead ends at the cement plant and CSX pulled up the lines at the other end along the Metro Center levee. It's a shame that spur couldn't be repurposed to connect the Star with Germantown and Metro Center and beyond.

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Thanks for that explanation. I've seen freight movement on occasion up around the water treatment plant portion of the spur but i observed yesterday that the section of rails that runs through the cement plant was buried under several inches of dirt which made me think it was not in use.

Anyway, I like your dual use idea of commuter on some of these lines by day and freight by night. How much of a pipe dream is it that CSX would ever go along with it?

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Thanks for that explanation. I've seen freight movement on occasion up around the water treatment plant portion of the spur but i observed yesterday that the section of rails that runs through the cement plant was buried under several inches of dirt which made me think it was not in use.

Anyway, I like your dual use idea of commuter on some of these lines by day and freight by night. How much of a pipe dream is it that CSX would ever go along with it?

 

Actually, I did fail to respond directly to your question about that section of rail lead at the old cement/ready-mix plant (Lone Star Industries at one time).

 

Yes, that portion has been abandoned for quite sometime now, so your observation was totally correct.  That once active spur once "stub"-ended at a location beyond the Interstate (now I-65, but then referred to as the northern sector of the former I-265 inner loop).  It had been utilized very little, after the ready-mix plant shut down, since then there no longer had been a need for storage of cement-hoppers ("shorty" freight cars which resemble in form their larger mineral-freight cousins [for coal, crushed rock], but which have closed tops [roofs] to maintain a totally dry enclosure for the transport of powdered cement cargo).

 

Because Lone Star had been the end of the line for rail service beyond the water treatment plant (which I refer to as the "Icky Pop" because those two giant domed solid-waste-pellet storage vessels remind me of the old "Jiffy-Pop" stove-top self-contained aluminum-foil popcorn poppers of the 1960's), CSX did what is common practice for all railroads nationwide:  either maintain to operating standards any trackage, utilized or not; or save money by ripping up the rails and/or removal of the switch turnout track that connects that trackage to the outside world.  If that trackage is in any manner accessible by rail from any connection at all, then if has to be maintained to FRA standards (at a cost).

 

They've started to do the same at the Tennessean Newspaper (Gannett) along Eleventh Ave., first by dismantling the switches to those tracks and eventually by the complete removal of the severed spurs and stubs, which the printing company had used to store a number of Canadian- and New-England- originated boxcars, commonly needed for giant rolls of paper for the printing-press industry.  Where the Eleven North development is located (site of the former cold-storage trucking facility), north of the Church Street viaduct, a storage track, for storing a string of boxcars loaded with paper rolls, used to extend almost to Charlotte Ave.  Now, what remains of a once complex maze of switches and stubs is about to be removed totally, with barely a vestige being left behind.

 

All the abandoned and removed CSX trackage within the former 11th Avenue Industrial district (known as the Gulch) has permanently escaped any future restoration to railroad use.  Six months ago, I mentioned the term "railbanking".

 

Railbanking - a voluntary agreement between a railroad company and a local public agency allowing an out-of-service rail corridor to be used as as a trail or other public non-commercial use, until or unless the company decides to use the corridor for rail service in the future. Railbanking usually involves the sale of property to local entities with buy-back provision for the railroad company. Such agreements are sanctioned by U.S. Surface Transportation Board.  Railbanking occurs during the time period when the railroad company notifies the U.S. Surface Transportation Board of its intent to abandon a line.

 

If no conscientious deliberation is taken to engage in railbanking for preservation of some of these vital railway rights-of-way, then the probability and possibility of repurposing these, in long-range consideration for transit use, will be beyond reach, since there no longer would remain any re-entrant provision for rail use of any type. :cry:

Edited by rookzie
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Sort of off topic, but I think that the MTA really missed an opportunity today when the Nashville bubble failed to stop our roads from becoming an icy mess.  Around 7:30 or so, the MTA stopped all its buses [or held them at the downtown depot] for over an hour due to road conditions.  Now, I applaude the MTA's commitment to safety first and I don't begrudge its decision [eventhough I stood in the cold and wet for over an hour and a half after the MTA announded a resumption of service], but wouldn't it have been great if the MTA could boast that, while auto commuters were spinning off the road, or stuck behind a pile-up, that MTA's buses continued to run? 

 

I support our MTA and defend the service [and the BRT and AMP] to my colleagues against their many incorrect assumptions about public transport.  And, as even as  I insist that my route [No. 7] is usually on time, the one thing that keeps being said as a reason not to ride is that car travel is just more dependable.  By failing to take advantage of today's ice and snow, the MTA made that argument harder to defeat.

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Here's an article on the Atlantic Cities about Nashville and the Stop AMP movement.

http://www.theatlanticcities.com/commute/2014/03/inside-nashvilles-oddly-ugly-bus-rapid-transit-debate/8540/

Nothing really new to us except it mentions that we should know about federal funding tomorrow (I knew it was in March, but I didn't know it would be tomorrow.

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There is a 0% chance CSX will allow passenger rail of any type on their tracks.

 

Yes, 0% with 0$!!

 

Many have wondered or have been asked, as I frequently am, "Why don’t they run passenger service over CSX?"  The reason follows in the indenture below.  While the statement refers specifically to the subject of high speed trains the general tone of the message is CSX wants nothing to do with passenger trains ─ High-Speed Rail (HSR), low-speed, or any-speed.

 

CSX Chief Says He ‘Can’t Be Part of’ Obama High-Speed Rail Plan
By Lisa Caruso - Apr 6, 2011

CSX Corp. (CSX) “can’t be part of” President Barack Obama's rail vision because passenger trains don’t make money and high-speed trains don’t belong on freight tracks, Chief Executive Officer Michael Ward said.

 

“I’m a corporation. I exist to make money, OK?” Ward said today in an interview at Bloomberg’s New York office. “You can’t make money hauling passengers, so why would I want to do that? That wouldn’t be fair to my shareholders.” CSX is the third-largest major freight railroad in the U.S. by revenue.

 

If CSX were to advocate for high-speed rail, he said, “it’s then ‘why aren’t you donating part of your infrastructure to that?’ which I can’t do and be true to my obligation to my shareholders.”

While moving more people by train might make sense for society, letting passenger trains traveling faster than 90 miles per hour share tracks with freight trains doesn’t make business sense, said Ward, whose Jacksonville, Florida-based railroad owns 21,000 miles of track east of St. Louis.

 

Obama has made building a national high-speed passenger rail network a priority, and Congress has devoted more than $10.5 billion to the program since it was created in 2009. Obama is asking Congress to spend $8 billion on the initiative next year and $53 billion in the next six years, to connect 80 percent of Americans to high-speed rail service within 25 years. Republican opponents in Congress want to eliminate it.

Putting high-speed passenger trains on freight lines is not practical because “the curvature and the elevation of the freight rail” tracks cannot support trains operating at speeds higher than 90 mph, Ward said. Those trains should run on separate tracks, which may cost “tens of billions, if not hundreds of billions” of dollars to build, he said.

 

New York Dispute

CSX and New York are in a dispute over the state’s plan to provide passenger service between Albany and Buffalo with trains going as fast as 110 mph. CSX will not allow trains traveling faster than 90 mph on its tracks, citing potential damage. Railroads such as Union Pacific, the largest freight rail company by revenue, are working with states to upgrade their tracks for passenger trains traveling as fast as 110 mph.

Ward said another concern for CSX is that freight trains, which operate at 45 mph to 50 mph, may need more time to stop and pull over if passenger train speeds increase, causing increased disruption to its operations.

 

Bernard Kohn at [email protected]

2014 BLOOMBERG L.P. ALL RIGHTS RESERVED.
 

Unlike with the NS (Norfolk Southern, the other of the two Class I railroads in the eastern U.S., CSX being one itself),  the CSX CEO has emphasized that he is committed only to the primary focus of generating a profit, thereby serving the stakeholders, even if it has meant collateral “damage” to PR as a result of unpleasantly austere comments.

This does not, however, necessarily mean that CSX would not be at least lukewarm to a very expensive proposition to infuse funding to expand its current congested single-track R.O.W.,  between Nashv’l and Murfreesboro to a 4-track main, replete with sidings and crossovers.   An arrangement, not only would provide a second main for CSX to allow nearly unimpeded bidirectional movement (augmenting its present ability to handle its Nissan traffic), but also would accommodate similar independent movement for commuter rail as well.  Some regional authority would sponsor the undertaking, which would incorporate redundancy (double-crossovers between parallel pairs of mains) to support normal and emergency ops, while including a joint R.O.W. buffer with an express easement appurtenant to joint use or ownership of a portion of the R.O.W., shared for independent ancillary operations.

The reason that passenger rail does still exist along the CSX is that some Amtrak routes were contracted to run along its trackage long before it became incorporated as CSX from mergers during the 1980s.  Additionally, existing commuter-rail ops (comm-rail having the stringent, hefty construction standards of the railroads) of Chicago, DC, Balto, and Northern Va.  had to be grandfathered from the once private ownership of CSX’s predecessors (B&O, RF&P, Penn Central - ConRail before its divestiture of 1997).  This is the reason that you don’t see new commuter-rail ops along the CSX in metro areas which did not already have them ─ most of these timetable ops being at least 50 years old.  You just do not see any new commuter-rail ops along any portion of CSX.  The NS – yes; FEC (Florida East Coast) – yes; NERR of Nashv'l – yes; CSX – [wrong answer].

Think it may happen with Murf or Gallatin?  I think not (within the next 30 years); cost would be way too prohibitive.  Only way it could happen with West Bank industrial or with any other local CSX trackage would be if the regional authority would expand the R.O.W. to allow independent rail ops, or if CSX would decide to abandon totally those marginally profitable lines (and then only if Metro would scoop it up before it got lost to rubber-stamp approval for development),  Class 1 railroads (BNSF, UP, CSX, NS, CN, CP, KCS) generate their highest revenue on mineral freight, automotive mfg., and on double-stack container traffic.  Most of the traditional simple, small customer service often has been taken over by short lines (companies who buy abandoned freight line segments of lines from the larger roads), which often can perform these movements at profit, by separating that concern from the larger roads and by interchanging such traffic to from the larger roads (and the outside world).

 

Short lines, being much smaller than the contemporary class-1 lines, handle what the Class-1 lines often have left behind, and quite frequently, short lines can gain small customers who otherwise would have chosen only to use trucking lines.  Being small is a primary reason that the two local short lines of Nashv'l (actually NWRR and NERR are one and the same, in terms of ownership).  They often have had much to gain from even modest improvements funded externally (such as upgrades for running the MCStar), since they often do not have the capital to afford such upgrades on their own.

 

Edited by rookzie
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On that note, was the Music City Star on time with all trains running? I would guess yes. Now that, would be good PR.

It sure was.  However, since the buses weren't running for awhile some had to ride it back.  Some could walk of course.  Info from the Facebook page of the Friends of the Music City Star.

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http://www.tennessean.com/article/20140304/NEWS0202/303040090/Nashville-s-Amp-project-recommended-27M-Obama-budget?odyssey=mod%7Cbreaking%7Ctext%7CFRONTPAGE&nclick_check=1

 

We received $27 MM for this fiscal year. We are trying to get to the $75 MM total over the next few years.

 

Good news.

 

Now we need to work on getting local money.

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No way this project moves forward .... it has zero dollars at present. This 4Trillion dollar monstrosity of a federal budget will not be passed by a ® controlled house. No $35M in funding from state is forthcoming and even Metro itself has yet to identify ANY funding source for its $53M share.....

This project is not even to the starting gate.... JMO

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