The Transportation and Mass Transit Megathread

[BnaBreaker]

And to just think.. I bought my first car from that idiot. The then Pontiac dealership on Broadway. If I still had that car I would Park it front of the Beaman lot and burn it and call news 4 and let them know the reason why I'm burning it.

LOL!!!  Damn.  You win!  You win.  hahaha

[Guest]

I also do not want to get into politics ... but I am interested in these subsidies for evil oil companies ..... I am also interested in the $12 /gallon calc

I did find this article enlightening ... http://www.forbes.com/sites/energysource/2012/04/25/the-surprising-reason-that-oil-subsidies-persist-even-liberals-love-them/

 If the US Government stopped all their subsidies to the oil companies and gas prices went to "market rates" ie $12 bucks a gallon, would he have a little problem selling cars??

[nashvylle]

an absolute overreach of the government.

 

Beth Harwell's "other priorities" are getting reelected and fundraising from lee beaman, and then building more and more highways.

 

http://www.tennessean.com/article/20140306/NEWS0201/303060136/Beth-Harwell-backs-Stop-Amp-amendment

[MidTenn1]

I agree with you about the Lee Beaman political and financial influence. But there also a case, in my opinion, of 'Nashville Envy' from the rural and non growth Cities in Tennessee.

 

It's always been that way going back to when a Commissioner of Economic and Community Development told me "if we put anymore manufacturing plants in Middle Tennessee, it's going to sink." There was a concerted effort to more heavily promote West and East Tennessee to prospective industries. 

Edited March 7, 2014 by PHofKS

[Paramount747]

There was a story on local NPR yesterday with new president of the Stop Amp organization. They are changing the name to Stop And Think. He personally asked the negative people to leave the organization. He said the majority of them are not anti-bus, anti-mass transit, anti-public transportation, or blatant racists like the famous "those people" woman. He said his group has gotten a bad rap because of a few people including Lee Beaman.

 

He said the current design of the AMP was bad, not the idea of it.

 

Here is the article:

 

http://nashvillepublicradio.org/blog/2014/03/06/from-stopamp-to-go-nashville-amp-opponents-try-a-more-positive-message/

[timmay143]

Article from the scene on the STOP whatever's "Plan B"
 
http://www.nashvillescene.com/pitw/archives/2014/03/07/after-legislative-push-stop-amp-offers-plan-b
 

Now, Stop Amp has released just the sort of transit line that would be allowed under that legislation. Their "Plan B," unveiled last night at a forum in Belle Meade, is a two-part, 19.6 mile plan similar to the BRT Lite lines already running on Gallatin Road and Murfreesboro Road.

From the plan:

1. Part I is the Harding Road/West End Plan — a 12.1 mile BRT route from the Bellevue Mall to Riverfront Station.
2. Part II is the Charlotte Avenue Plan — a 7.5 mile BRT route from the Charlotte Pike Walmart at RIver Road to Music City Central at 400 Charlotte Avenue.

Both lines, according to the document released by Stop Amp, would have "curbside loading and unloading," as well as some features that are already part of The Amp, as proposed, liked "prepaid fare collection" and "computer adaptive traffic signals with bus priority."

For the sake of comparison, you can refresh your memory on all the details of The Amp here.

Among the advantages Stop Amp claims their plan has over The Amp are increased safety due to curbside stations, no disruption to automobile traffic, no construction, and "projected" savings of $125 million.

[FrankNash]

The legislation that the state is trying to put though is a really big deal. If passed we will never get BRT,LRT or more regional rail because the state will have in place a block even if the Federal government and local government are willing to pay for it. Looking at the map about anyway you design mass transit in Nashville it will need to go across, on or under a state highway. So, if you want to live in a city that has mass transit then this is the time to speak up. I hope we don't look back 10 years from now and say wow I wish I had made my voice heard. Don't depend on the Governor to veto, remember his family makes billions on selling us gas.

[FrankNash]

The STOP AMP proposal doesn't help because the busses will be stuck in the same traffic as the cars.

[shanky]

What is it these rural TN state lawmakers have against this city?  I don't know what options the mayor has - doesn't appear to be much - but if nothing else I would love to see him put the screws to that colossal prick, Lee Beaman before he leaves office

[MidTenn1]

 

 

The STOP AMP proposal doesn't help because the busses will be stuck in the same traffic as the cars.

 

I agree. However, cars do not want to 'share' the lane with buses as they arrive every 10 to 15 minutes and stop every few blocks regardless of demand. In my former life as a traffic engineer, people in my engineering field understood that outer bus lanes were roadway capacity killers. So you still lose two lanes, only bigger.

 

The outer lane concept will eliminate as much as 26' of road cross section.The median concept may only require as little as 18' of cross-section. The extra 8 feet in available width makes a huge difference in traffic design and flow.

 

I wonder how many would have objected if the City had proposed installing a beautiful boulevard type, landscaped median along the corridor instead of the AMP lanes. The effect on traffic flow would have been the same. Where is the same outrage for the Korean Veterans Boulevard layout and its landscaped median?

 

The Mayor has my full permission to refer to the current AMP layout as the 'Boulevard Concept'. Maybe some unobtrusive landscaping might help sell it as in the New Orleans street car corridors. A much more pleasant labeling, I would think.

Edited March 7, 2014 by PHofKS

[barakat]

Would the anti-AMP crowd be more open to eliminated street parking along the route, with curbside stops?  Or is availability of on-street parking part of the issue?

[MidTenn1]

And the Harwell/Beaman 'safety' issue is false, also!! 

 

Instead of passengers crossing to the median loading platform under special pedestrian signal protection, under the outer lane scheme, someone on the eastbound side of the street will have to cross the entire street to catch a westbound bus. Overall, this probably is more hazardous and more disruptive to traffic, Crossing the entire street requires much more major street red time than crossing half the street. You more than double the automobile delay to West End when you do this.

 

And the Harwell/Beaman  cost issue is phony, also!!

 

The number of loading platforms will now double as you now need two platforms, two shelters, twice the seating, and double the ticket machines under the 'Harwell/Beaman' scheme. The concrete road surface is still essential as the stopping and starting of buses causes pavement creep on asphalt surfaces. Concrete is an initially more expensive solution, but cheaper over the long run. So I see no savings there. The price tag for the Harwell/Beaman scheme could actually turn out to be higher.

 

The poorly thought out Harwell/Beaman scheme  would not only be less safe and more expensive, it would be less utilized and effective and thus somewhat contribute to the weakening of one of the great economic and tax revenue producing engines  in the state, the booming City of Nashville.

[MidTenn1]

Would the anti-AMP crowd be more open to eliminated street parking along the route, with curbside stops?  Or is availability of on-street parking part of the issue?

 

On street parking is always an issue. Without dedicated lanes, the numerous buses will have to steer around parked cars and introduce additional delay and safety problems to the interior lanes. If you take away dedicated lanes, whether they are outside or in the median, you no longer have 'Rapid Transit'.

[MidTenn1]

How about some "Stop Lee Beaman" signs along Broadway?

[nashvylle]

The legislation that the state is trying to put though is a really big deal. If passed we will never get BRT,LRT or more regional rail because the state will have in place a block even if the Federal government and local government are willing to pay for it. Looking at the map about anyway you design mass transit in Nashville it will need to go across, on or under a state highway. So, if you want to live in a city that has mass transit then this is the time to speak up. I hope we don't look back 10 years from now and say wow I wish I had made my voice heard. Don't depend on the Governor to veto, remember his family makes billions on selling us gas.

 

Exactly. I doubt it will do much, but I am sending a letter to beth harwell and calling her office to show what a dangerous precedent she has set.

[MLBrumby]

There was a story on local NPR yesterday with new president of the Stop Amp organization. They are changing the name to Stop And Think. He personally asked the negative people to leave the organization. He said the majority of them are not anti-bus, anti-mass transit, anti-public transportation, or blatant racists like the famous "those people" woman. He said his group has gotten a bad rap because of a few people including Lee Beaman.

 

He said the current design of the AMP was bad, not the idea of it.

 

Here is the article:

 

http://nashvillepublicradio.org/blog/2014/03/06/from-stopamp-to-go-nashville-amp-opponents-try-a-more-positive-message/

 

 

I will actually agree with the idea that the AMP design is bad.  I just have serious doubts, and I'm very suspicious of the CEO of St. Thomas being so gung-ho about the line route down West End.  I just think he's trying to get his own shuttle for his employees. I have said for some time, and like it even more as I think about it more, that a loop (even if it's BRT) around the downtown and midtown... then around east Nashville soon after that, would work far better and get a lot more residential built along the routes. By my proposal, suddenly you'd have Hayes street brought to life... not to mention near-in Charlotte.  It would serve downtown, CC, Vandy, Music City central, Metro, downtown hotels, residents in the Gulch and the bars along Church/Elliston/West End/Demonbreun/Broadway/Division and soon Sobro/Veterans.  Then after a few years, bring Main/Five Points/Lockeland/Shelby/Inglewood into the loop. Then Germantown/Bicentennial/Metro Center. 

Edited March 7, 2014 by MLBrumby

[nashvylle]

I will actually agree with the idea that the AMP design is bad.  I just have serious doubts, and I'm very suspicious of the CEO of St. Thomas being so gung-ho about the line route down West End.  I just think he's trying to get his own shuttle for his employees. I have said for some time, and like it even more as I think about it more, that a loop (even if it's BRT) around the downtown and midtown... then around east Nashville soon after that, would work far better and get a lot more residential built along the routes. By my proposal, suddenly you'd have Hayes street brought to life... not to mention near-in Charlotte.  It would serve downtown, CC, Vandy, Music City central, Metro, downtown hotels, residents in the Gulch and the bars along Church/Elliston/West End/Demonbreun/Broadway/Division and soon Sobro/Veterans.  Then after a few years, bring Main/Five Points/Lockeland/Shelby/Inglewood into the loop. Then Germantown/Bicentennial/Metro Center. 

 

Great proposal. Unfortunately, the engineering work and site analysis could take 5 years to complete. Then, you have to make sure Lee Beaman is ok. If not, a state representative now has the authority to prohibit this because your proposal will go over a state road. If it doesn't go over a state road, the state apparently has the authority to prohibit any type of mass transit.

 

Everyone please visit this site and send out your message that this amendment is absolutely ludicrous.

 

http://www.ampletters.com/

 

Can someone please create a StopLeeBeaman.com website?

Edited March 8, 2014 by nashvylle

[MidTenn1]

By......The.......Way!

 

These 'State Routes' are firstly and mostly (90% paid for) Federal Routes!!! Highway 70/Broadway/West End is actually US 70S and State Route 1. The FHWA has ultimate say so over the routes in most cases, regardless of local or state law. The Federal Government has the ultimate right to withhold all funding if state and local governments are in non-compliance with Federal requirements.

 

Its probably a little more complicated than that, but the point is is that the door is not closed. Hopefully, this legislature's continued attempts at establishing a Tennessee dictatorship by indiscriminately ignoring both Federal law and foolishly over-ruling local law may be thwarted, at least in this case.

[nashvylle]

Thanks PHofKS.

 

What Beth Harwell is doing is complete dictatorship. 

[FrankNash]

Even if you don't like the AMP proposal after Wednesday we really don't need this tread except to talk about other cities and what they are planning. If we want a opportunity to have a real mass transit system the state must allow us to make our own way forward. How embarrassing when people ask why we don't have mass transit. Please help now by going to AMP YES, write a online letter or join us for the rally at the capitol on Wednesday at noon! THIS IS IT FOLKS! 

[MidTenn1]

From this morning’s Tennessean; Executive director Michael Skipper of the Nashville Area Metropolitan Planning Organization said,

 

“My position is that the project’s already approved by the state, and the governor’s concurrence is there,” he said. “These are typically executive branch decisions. Now, the legislature ultimately plays a role in appropriating state funds for TDOT’s budget, but that’s a far different issue than their authority to de-authorize a project.

 

“Giving the state legislature veto authority over projects that are already approved sort of undermines the federal law that requires the state and the locals to make these decisions together.”

 

 

 

 

Looks like my comments about the Feds having last say over the funding of this project were echoed by another. I had also made a comment about the bills likely impairment to Nashville’s booming economy;

 

You’ve got the largest regional economic contributor to this state, and it’s the only target of this limiting legislation,” said Schulz, president and CEO of the Nashville Area Chamber of Commerce. “It just doesn't make sense.”

 

 

Looks like someone may be reading our posts. Keep writing.

[SoundScan]

Cool story about a massive BRT project in Buenos Aires and how it literally re-shaped the city: http://www.citiscope.org/story/2014/how-buenos-aires-unclogged-its-most-iconic-street#sthash.eSIY5RlA.dpuf

 

If only our city could be so bold...

[BnaBreaker]

Cool story about a massive BRT project in Buenos Aires and how it literally re-shaped the city: http://www.citiscope.org/story/2014/how-buenos-aires-unclogged-its-most-iconic-street#sthash.eSIY5RlA.dpuf

 

If only our city could be so bold...

 

Fascinating read.  Thanks for posting it!  I think the original BRT success story, at least on this side of the globe, comes out of Bogota.  BRT has done wonders for that city as well.

[rookzie]

Cool story about a massive BRT project in Buenos Aires and how it literally re-shaped the city: http://www.citiscope.org/story/2014/how-buenos-aires-unclogged-its-most-iconic-street#sthash.eSIY5RlA.dpuf

 

If only our city could be so bold...

 

 

Fascinating read.  Thanks for posting it!  I think the original BRT success story, at least on this side of the globe, comes out of Bogota.  BRT has done wonders for that city as well.

 

While perhaps not as glamorous as those in South America, Brisbane, Queensland has a sizable and strange sub-system of what I refer to as the "EL-bus" (or "L"-bus), but what Brisbane refers to as simply "busways".  These e"L"evated busways are not unlike (in principle) the elevated street railways still found in Chicago and in Brooklyn (and formerly in Philly, Boston, and other parts of NYC).  Brisbane took the extreme with these "ultra-BRT" set-ups, with high percentage of total grade separation of iyd busway segments from surface traffic.  (it also has conventional surface busways as well)

 

It might seem that to have gone to such a high degree of separating busways with dedicated pathways above and below the general traffic surface (with a series of tangent and curved viaduct-like structures, both aerial and sub-grade), along with some rather elaborate stations, would be as expensive as building elevated trams (streetcar-like rail, as Americans refer to them).  On that note, Brisbane does have an extensive system of municipal (and suburban) rail as well, so you have to consider it a kind of a quirky "balance".

 

http://www.tmr.qld.gov.au/busways.aspx

 

http://www.humantransit.org/2009/05/brisbane-a-short-tour-of-the-south-east-busway.html

 

-=rr=-

[grilled_cheese]

I have an in with a high ranking transit employee in Memphis and he says that our real time GPS bus app was in the works the same time as theirs but the flood stopped our work.  Early fall of last year he said we were a year away from getting ours.  Hopefully that comes true sooner rather than later.

 

I live off of the 26 and 56 bus lines and enjoy taking them when I go to Preds games, concerts, or drinking.  Unfortunately I can't take them to work as it would be an hour and a half+ walk, ride, and transfer time.

 

I do understand the shortcomings of the AMP but we really need this to get in place, yesterday.  If we let the West Enders and Shelbyvillers of the world have their way we will never get a real mass transit system in place.  I like how their plan B only showed up after the AMP.  If the AMP hadn't been 'threatening' them you think they would've wanted to changd, add really, a thing?  Of course not.  I'm sure they would help defund and dismantle the whole thing themselves if they could.  I drove to Franklin on Friday about 1PMish and stopped at SatCo on the way down.  I haven't driven the West End/Green Hills route in a long time and I really forgot how bad it was.  I don't understand how people live like that.  I'll echo the sentiment of another poster - let's shove AMP down West End's throat and watch them squirm.

 

Uber is a GREAT service, I love using it as opposed to cabs.  If I called a cab to come out to my house in Inglewood it would take them 30 minutes to not show, then I would have to call them again and then, maybe, they would show up after another 30 minutes.  Uber will get to my house in less than 20 and the app is highly accurate with arrival times.  I have my share of minor complaints but they are dwarfed by my complaints against the cabbies.  I really hope that no legislation is put into place to limit the rideshare services we just got.