The Transportation and Mass Transit Megathread

[barakat]

Other studies for the Clarksville/Nashville commuter train route are online somewhere.  One of the plans shows the route reclaiming part of the former rail line that is now the Cumberland River Bicentennial Trail in Ashland City, which would be unfortunate.  It's one of the best greenways in the county, if not the best.

[volsfanwill]

Please use existing rail tracks for a commuter rail from Clarksville to Nashville!

 

https://www.nashvillepost.com/blogs/postbusiness/2014/9/4/rta_studying_clarksville_corridor_options

there are no tracks between ashland city and Clarksville any more,  there is a line through springfield to guthrie kentucky and one from there to clarksville. but kind of out of the way.   I always though using the median of I24 might be the best option for this route.

[nashvillwill]

It's funny you say that. I noticed something the other day that is odd. There is an old wooden rail bridge at the intersection of Ashland City Hwy and Old Hickory Blvd. It is currently undergoing repairs, which doesn't make sense since it appears the track are not in service. I saw the work being done as of yesterday. I'm actually headed up that way again today, so I'll snag a picture if I can.

Granted, this would be between AC and Nashville, not AC and Clarksville. Maybe that stretch is in service.

Edited September 4, 2014 by nashvillwill

[Griz83]

It's funny you say that. I noticed something the other day that is odd. There is an old wooden rail bridge at the intersection of Ashland City Hwy and Old Hickory Blvd. It is currently undergoing repairs, which doesn't make sense since it appears the track are not in service. I saw the work being done as of yesterday. I'm actually headed up that way again today, so I'll snag a picture if I can.

Granted, this would be between AC and Nashville, not AC and Clarksville. Maybe that stretch is in service.

 

That section is, indeed, in service.  That is Nashville and Western trackage.  It is the sister company to N&E, which leases to Music City Star.

[nashvillwill]

Well, that's encouraging. So, do the tracks north of AC not exist anymore? Is the ROW still intact, or is it broken?

[Nathan_in_DC]

there are no tracks between ashland city and Clarksville any more,  there is a line through springfield to guthrie kentucky and one from there to clarksville. but kind of out of the way.   I always though using the median of I24 might be the best option for this route.

 

This, this definitely. People poo-poo the idea of putting commuter rail in highway medians a lot due to the infrastructure disruption that construction causes, however, DC managed to do it without much of a problem for the Silver Line extension to Dulles. Admittedly, this is a much shorter route, but it's simply a matter of scaling it up.  Certainly this would be much cheaper than cutting a new ROW, even if it does require rebuilding some interstate, and it would be a much more effective system since it would use purpose built trackage instead of disused and poorly maintained low-speed freight lines.

[rookzie]

Actually the tracks are being used still and have been, since they repaired the broken ring-gear on the Bordeaux swing bridge during the late ‘90s - early 2000s.  Movements are very few but do run from Nashv’l to a point near a couple of miles east of the Ashland City Wal-Mart.  Here they serve a few customers, one of the larger ones of which is Trinity Industries – Inland Barge.

 

Any of the few proposed northwest rail alternatives is costly.  The most direct route, through Ashland City and via the Nashville and Western RR (former Illinois Central Gulf [ex Tennessee Central]) was dismantled to such an extent that it would need total rehab.  It's full of sunken berms, timber trestles, worn out or removed track, decayed roadbed and bridges.  The required replacement of the Bordeaux bridge alone would really eat up some duckets, and even it requires some difficult choices to be made (as a project by itself).  The line is still in use a few times a week between Nashville and A-C, and therefore replacing the Bordeaux bridge would have to be minimally disruptive to the NWRR and without creating prohibitively steep operating grades for the existing freight service on that line (the NWRR has older locomotives), in an attempt to eliminate the need for a moveable-span, vertical-lift bridge for allowing full shipping channel clearance.  The numerous girder spans and trusses along the entire path also would need replacing or rehabbed, due to decades of neglect and/or abandonment.  As barakat indicated, some of the route is rails-to-trails, and some of the old right of way would require earth filling and re-alignment.  This alternative proposal would replace all existing timber trestles en route, and which are located over many streets, streams, other grade separations.  If you've driven along SR-12 from Old Hickory Blvd.to A-C, then you might have noticed that the existing single track virtually runs right across peoples' driveways in front of their yards alongside the roadway.  Some measures would be needed undertaken to protect these guys (and their billy goats, roosters, and dogs [dogs do love to chase trains, you know]) from the more frequent and higher-speed commuter trains.  In short, the Ashland City line would require a very expensive make-over, to bring it up to FRA passenger standards.

 

The routes of other alternatives are not as direct as the NWRR path (running the triangle X and the Y, instead of the hypotenuse).  One alternative would running along the existing RJCorman RR (former L&N-CSX line between Memphis and Bowling Green) out of Clarksville to Guthrie, where it then would be required to use a sizable part of their routes along the ubiquitous CSX (along its Henderson [KY] Sub-division),  through Springfield, and into Nashville (via Amqui-Madison).  Another alternative would run along much of I-24, then along the path of Briley Pkwy, and somehow would tie into the CSX from along some path (which I have yet to actually determine) and into Nashville.   These alternatives would cross from the river east bank to the west bank somewhere to downtown Nashville, either along the CSX, but most likely along a new dedicated bridge and track (since the existing CSX single-track swing bridge often stays congested, with trains waiting on a siding at either side of the river).  Either of these alternatives would form a considerably indirect path between the end points. The option of passing through Guthrie would end up having to garner support from the State of Ky; this route also would be the farthest (longest) path between Clarksville and Nashville (in my opinion, much too long).  They’d be better off considering a long-range separate route to Springfield via Greenbrier, Ridgetop, Goodlettesville, rather than to make that a primary route to Clarksville from Nashville.

 

Then too, there's the issue that the MPO has proposed in placing rail terminals to serve the line, in particular, the one in Nashville.  If the Ashland City route would be used (which from what I understand would be the preferred alternative), then they propose initially building a station in northwestern "mid-town", near Charlotte and 26th Ave. N.  Since they had proposed that quite some time ago, instead  they should have considered utilizing some of that then unused V-shaped  property along the western portion of land between the CSX overpass (at 25th) and I-440.  This "squat" just west of the 28th/31st Avenue Connector contains the site of the new OneC1TY development now underway.  The existing RR R.o.W. and little used track (referred to as Clifton Yard, along the NWRR) could have been planned for an extended connection across Charlotte Ave. and then to tie into the CSX for a long-range intention to run to the Gulch area for a station in that area, instead (considering what's left of the Gulch property).  Otherwise, for a DT station along the Ashland City route, they would require a "wye" leg, spanning between the existing “mainline” in the vicinity of Meharry Medical College near Hermosa Street and 21^stAve., to a point along the Herman Street branch, south of Herman Street near 19^th, with the sole purpose of providing a means to run between Clarksville and Nashville without the need for a back-up movement at Clifton.  It also would require (according to the same part of that “wye” sub-proposal), a rehab of the eastern portion of Herman Street branch for tying into the CSX at 13^th Ave. (and then to the Gulch), or for building a DT station near Rosa Parks Blvd, near the Farmer’s Market.  All this (including the wye) would require sacrificing a bunch of houses and perhaps even closing down Herman between 11^th and 9^th (a rather questionable action, given the fact that that sector of North Nashville has suffered a long and historical affliction of urban displacement).

 

6 in one hand ─ half a dozen in the other, it seems.  Too bad that this has been deemed the least expensive MPO initiative, as well as considered the most likely “next” corridor (primarily because it involves the least amount of CSX dealings).  I realize that it costs money, and with no dedicated and sustainable funding source(s), there is no point in continuing to waste what little is on-hand for additional feasibility studies on a 25-year transportation vision.  Though at this point in time IMO, the regional governments comprising the MPO should revise the individual studies for the individual conceived rail corridors.  I realize that Metro Davidson needs to account for most of the changes evolved which would directly affect the applicability of existing details in the respective proposals for each corridor, because a lot has occurred since the staggered time release of the current plan segments.  A significant number of critical baseline assets remaining concurrent with the release of the most recent proposals, now a number of years old, have given way to development (with disregard for transportation infrastructure), and as such, some proposed action alternatives may no longer be achievable or realizable.  From what I have read, the MPO states that it intends to release a major update for the next 25 year period (2040).  In preaching to the choir, I must honestly say that, with any successive revisions of plans, progress can hardly be measured, without the proportionate and prioritized use of dedicated funding, as without this, they're just publishing modern-day Spiegel catalogs amounting to mere fantasy books.

 

-==-

Edited September 5, 2014 by rookzie

[UTgrad09]

I believe there are a few reasons why the Clarksville route looks attractive compared to some of the other possibilities.

 

-They potentially DON'T have to fight CSX for track rights (or, at least, the shared area would be much smaller than other lines)

 

-Clarksville is a farther commute than even Murfreesboro...and even though there are fewer commuters, and less overall traffic, the shear distance makes it a tiring commute.

 

-There is an opportunity to make this commute competitively quick compared to the interstate commute. Unlike the other lines, which would likely have a number of stations in between, slowing the trip down, this could be an express train, with perhaps 1 stop (if they take the Ashland City route) before getting into the city. I read about the possibility for a higher speed train (during one of the corridor studies)...I think 70-80 mph.

 

-Austin Peay, and let's not forget Fort Campbell (I know Murfreesboro has MTSU)...aside from commuters, those wanting to make day or weekend trips could use the train. I could see a midnight Friday and Saturday train being very popular.

 

 

 

Now personally, I think we NEED the Murfreesboro/Smyrna/La Vergne/Antioch line the most. Followed by Gallatin/Hendersonville/Madison/Inglewood, then (Spring Hill?)/Franklin/Brentwood/100 Oaks. Clarksville certainly isn't as high of a priority. But I can understand if the MPO thinks that Clarksville is easier to accomplish (much like Lebanon) than the busy CSX tracks. If a Clarksville route can further the rail initiative in Middle Tennessee, then it should be done.

[37206dude]

Meeting Monday Sept 8; Woodland St Bike Lanes; East Park 6-7pm

 

Community Meeting next Monday night at East Park regarding a Protected Bike Lane for Woodland Street.

To have room for Bike Lanes, the turn lane would have to be removed.  A Protected Bike Lane has barriers to separate vehicular and bike lanes.

The meeting is sponsored by CM Peter Westerholm.

This kind of thing is very important for supporting growth along the main st/woodland st corridor.

Protected bike lanes are part of a good mix of urban transportation options.

Please come out and support if you can, there is small but very vocal (and curmudgeony) opposition to this.

[rookzie]

The saga finally continues.  The first smoke in weeks to be sniffed concerning the Amp E-W connector.

 

"AMP’ Citizens Advisory Committee Member Seeks More Disclosure." The News - Nashville Today. GCA Publishing Company Inc., 3 Sept. 2014. Web. 6 Sept. 2014. <http://www.gcanews.com/amp-citizens-advisory-committee-member-seeks-more-disclosure/>.

 

Dianne Neal, a Nashville West End inhabitant and attorney, has submitted an official request for all documents identified with the initial analysis that structures the premise for the Nashville MTA;s) proposed "AMP" BRT East-West Connector. Neal said repeated appeals for to the original grant from the Federal Transit Administration (FTA) for an “Alternatives Analysis” study of the transit options who are addressing the arrangements and practicality of the proposed "AMP" undertaking have been repelled by MTA.

 

No surprise here, although it may have negligible bearing on the current state of execution for finalizing the plans.

 

-==-

[barakat]

Is this not the alternatives analysis?  That's how it's named on the AMP website.

 

http://www.nashvillemta.org/PDF/BWE-LPA-Report-FINAL3.pdf

[nashvillwill]

Meeting Monday Sept 8; Woodland St Bike Lanes; East Park 6-7pm

Community Meeting next Monday night at East Park regarding a Protected Bike Lane for Woodland Street.

To have room for Bike Lanes, the turn lane would have to be removed. A Protected Bike Lane has barriers to separate vehicular and bike lanes.

The meeting is sponsored by CM Peter Westerholm.

This kind of thing is very important for supporting growth along the main st/woodland st corridor.

Protected bike lanes are part of a good mix of urban transportation options.

Please come out and support if you can, there is small but very vocal (and curmudgeony) opposition to this.

Can you provide a link to the plan?

I'm a little confused when you say that "the turn lane must be eliminated". To the best of my knowledge, the Woodland St. Bridge doesn't have a turn lane, but perhaps I'm misunderstanding you. Either way, I will try my best to be there in support of this.

[rookzie]

Is this not the alternatives analysis?  That's how it's named on the AMP website.

 

http://www.nashvillemta.org/PDF/BWE-LPA-Report-FINAL3.pdf

 

She seems to have a compelling reason (or not) to believe that at least part of the process has been less than transparent.  Perhaps that's the reason that she also is requesting access to any communication ─ e-mail or otherwise ─ concerning any dialog exchanged among those involved with the analysis and the decision makers.  So far, she's alone on this, or so it appears, as neither Lee Beaman nor Richard Fulton, both well-known as outspoken Amp opponents, prior to joining the Citizens’ Advisory Committee, have (yet) appended their names to the request.

 

-==-

Edited September 7, 2014 by rookzie

[barakat]

She definitely adds an interesting aspect to the committee meetings. Every time she's brought up conflict of interest, along with the alternatives analysis.  The tone of Stomp Amp, down to the graphics on their Facebook page, is really negative and off-putting.  I supposed that's the point, but aside from the half-baked suggestion to instead run BRT lite down Charlotte, they offer no legitimate alternative to the Amp. They are vehemently against dedicated lanes, most of all [aside from the cost.]  The other alternative they've offered, curbside loading on the planned route, has plenty of it's own problems. A big talking point for Stop Amp is the loss of street parking on West End.  I don't understand - If you had curbside loading instead of center dedicated lanes, wouldn't you still need to eliminate street parking to make the system efficient and worth the effort?  I submitted this question to them but never got a response. I favored the original plan of running Amp all the way down Broadway to 1st Ave.  The current plan of running it through downtown, even further away from the convention center, is really going to slow it down.  If it gets watered down much more, it's not going to be nearly as attractive.

 

 

She seems to have a compelling reason (or not) to believe that at least part of the process has been less than transparent.  Perhaps that's the reason that she also is requesting access to any communication ─ e-mail or otherwise ─ concerning any dialog exchanged among those involved with the analysis and the decision makers.  So far, she's alone on this, or so it appears, as neither Lee Beaman nor Richard Fulton, both well-known as outspoken Amp opponents, prior to joining the Citizens’ Advisory Committee, have (yet) appended their names to the request.

 

-==-

[nashvylle]

She seems to have a compelling reason (or not) to believe that at least part of the process has been less than transparent.  Perhaps that's the reason that she also is requesting access to any communication ─ e-mail or otherwise ─ concerning any dialog exchanged among those involved with the analysis and the decision makers.  So far, she's alone on this, or so it appears, as neither Lee Beaman nor Richard Fulton, both well-known as outspoken Amp opponents, prior to joining the Citizens’ Advisory Committee, have (yet) appended their names to the request.

 

-==-

I would like all email correspondence between Lee Beaman and the state representatives. I guarantee there is bribing going on, IE "make an anti-amp bill or else I will not support you financially for your reelection"

[Nathan_in_DC]

I would like all email correspondence between Lee Beaman and the state representatives. I guarantee there is bribing going on, IE "make an anti-amp bill or else I will not support you financially for your reelection"

 

Is there any way to submit a FOIA (or whatever the State level equivalent is) for this sort of thing? I know that at the Federal level you can do pretty specific requests (such as every email with a particular word in it in a date range to a particular email address, or the like).

 

Because if they were stupid enough to use government systems, that would be GOLD to hand over to one of the local investigative reporters.

Edited September 17, 2014 by Nathan_in_DC

[grilled_cheese]

Is there any way to submit a FOIA (or whatever the State level equivalent is) for this sort of thing? I know that at the Federal level you can do pretty specific requests (such as every email with a particular word in it in a date range to a particular email address, or the like).

 

Because if they were stupid enough to use government systems, that would be GOLD to hand over to one of the local investigative reporters.

 

 

I'm sure there is.  Razorback fans filed one to get Houston Nutt's school issued cellphone records.

Edited September 17, 2014 by grilled_cheese

[rookzie]

]blah-blah-blah...

...

...

 I realize that it costs money, and with no dedicated and sustainable funding source(s), there is no point in continuing to waste what little is on-hand for additional feasibility studies on a 25-year transportation vision.  Though at this point in time IMO, the regional governments comprising the MPO should revise the individual studies for the individual conceived rail corridors.  I realize that Metro Davidson needs to account for most of the changes evolved which would directly affect the applicability of existing details in the respective proposals for each corridor, because a lot has occurred since the staggered time release of the current plan segments.  A significant number of critical baseline assets remaining concurrent with the release of the most recent proposals, now a number of years old, have given way to development (with disregard for transportation infrastructure), and as such, some proposed action alternatives may no longer be achievable or realizable.  From what I have read, the MPO states that it intends to release a major update for the next 25 year period (2040).  In preaching to the choir, I must honestly say that, with any successive revisions of plans, progress can hardly be measured, without the proportionate and prioritized use of dedicated funding, as without this, they're just publishing modern-day Spiegel catalogs amounting to mere fantasy books.

 

-==-

 

As I posted a couple of weeks ago about the MPO, for what it's worth, now's a time to toss in a couple of cents of opinion and take the MPO's online survey.  It aint too long.  Problem here, as with most other "global" or "commonwealth" matters, the poll is not what I consider readily accessible because it's not made easily visible (multiple sources which can induce awareness to the attention of the survey) . I know, visibility comes with a cost, too.

 

"MPO Launches Survey about Transportation." The News. GCA Publishing, 17 Sept. 2014. Web. (accessed 18 Sept. 2014. < http://www.gcanews.com/mpo-launches-survey-about-transportation/# >.

 

 

Metro Planning launches survey about future transportation

 

The Nashville Area Metropolitan Planning Organization (MPO) is asking Middle Tennesseans to share their opinions about transportation issues to help shape future investment in roadways, bridges, public transit, and walking and bicycling facilities across Nashville and surrounding counties. The online survey is now open at survey.nashvillempo.org.

 

The survey will help determine funding priorities for the next five to 25 years. Results of the survey will be incorporated into the MPO’s 2040 Regional Transportation Plan which is scheduled for adoption late 2015. The last plan, adopted in 2010, provided nearly $6 billion to roadway projects and established Middle Tennessee’s first-ever publicly adopted regional vision for mass transit.

 

To take the survey, or to learn more about the regional transportation plan, visit survey.NashvilleMPO.org.

 

 

-==-

[12Mouth]

There is a feature on the new MTA director in this week's Ledger. Based on the article, I am very impressed and optimistic:

http://nashvilleledger.com/editorial/Article.aspx?id=75785 

[nashmoney]

There is a feature on the new MTA director in this week's Ledger. Based on the article, I am very impressed and optimistic:

http://nashvilleledger.com/editorial/Article.aspx?id=75785 

Good Article. I always forget about the Nashville Ledger. They usually have pretty good in-depth articles.

Edited September 19, 2014 by nashmoney

[smeagolsfree]

Good Article. I always forget about the Nashville Ledger. They usually have pretty good in-depth articles.

You can subscribe for free and it will come to your email account on Thursdays.

[vinemp]

There is a feature on the new MTA director in this week's Ledger. Based on the article, I am very impressed and optimistic:

http://nashvilleledger.com/editorial/Article.aspx?id=75785 

Yayforus! That is a very encouraging read; though, I didn't miss the well-placed ifs...

[bwithers1]

Good Article. I always forget about the Nashville Ledger. They usually have pretty good in-depth articles.

Well, that depends.  John Brittle has posted some seriously self-serving articles for his Infill Nashville group that included pretty glaring inaccuracies about the infill housing bills.  Beware of self-penned press releases being submitted as news.  The Ledger sometimes manages to be much worse about this than even the Tennessean.

Edited September 21, 2014 by bwithers1

[bwithers1]

Well, that depends.  John Brittle has posted some seriously self-serving articles for his Infill Nashville group that included pretty glaring inaccuracies about the infill housing bills.  Beware of self-penned press releases being submitted as news.  The Ledger sometimes manages to be much worse about this than even the Tennessean.

 

I was very impressed by his honesty that even in markets like San Francisco, the majority of transit users ride the bus.  That was certainly my sense living in Chicago.  I was also impressed by his statement that Nashville's "It City" status does not hinge on the Amp itself.

[BnaBreaker]

Yeah, color me impressed as well.  I like what I'm hearing.  In regards to the quoted bus comments, just to clarify, there are a lot more bus riders in Chicago, but that's only because there are far more bus routes than EL lines, so it's just accessible to more people.  It doesn't really mean that given the choice, most people would prefer bus to train.