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Surrounding Counties - Cheatham, Dickson, Montgomery, Rutherford, Sumner, Wilson, Williamson, Maury, etc.


Rural King

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Tim, it took me seriously 3 minutes to dissect that... I dunno. Might not be worth it. I like the "lump everything outside of DC" concept we have now...

 

Ha, yeah, well I was kind of just "talking out loud."  Not enough traffic, but it seems like back "in the day" there were announcements left and right all around.

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  • 3 weeks later...

Streets of Brentwood rezoning:

 

http://www.tennessean.com/article/20130108/WILLIAMSON/301080007/Streets-Brentwood-makes-first-run-rezoning?sf8430180=1

 

Sounds like Brentwood is doing all they can to keep the area as low of a density as possible, what with the increased buffer zones and lowered building square-footage on the plot.

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Streets of Brentwood rezoning:

 

http://www.tennessean.com/article/20130108/WILLIAMSON/301080007/Streets-Brentwood-makes-first-run-rezoning?sf8430180=1

 

Sounds like Brentwood is doing all they can to keep the area as low of a density as possible, what with the increased buffer zones and lowered building square-footage on the plot.

 

I think there is a concern about traffic and noise, so tweaking the plan isn't a bad thing. From what I saw, they were mostly lowering the office component, not retail or residential. Brentwood has enough damn offices. This project should be able to get by on residential and retail alone, anyways. I think the office and even the hotel is unnecessary. That area is clogged as all hell during rush hour. Removing 8-4/9-5 workers isn't really an awful idea.

 

The buffer zones are to protect the neighbors in back of them. If I lived there, I think I would want a large buffer zone as well. While this is an attempt at an urban project, we must remember that Brentwood's residents are still suburbanites. They didn't move there so they could walk to retail (though they might now).

 

I would be happy if they just keep with the spirit of the project.

 

The important things to me:

-compact, "walkable" design (you don't have to move your car as you go from store to store)

-building up instead of out (Brentwood is starting to run low on undeveloped land)

-a more urban "look" (it might not pass for urban in midtown or downtown, but Brentwood certainly lacks in this style of development)

--along with that, the idea of creating a Town Center or "downtown" Brentwood rather than just a bland sprawling office park and some $#itty 70s and 80s commercial junk.

-street connectivity (it connects two relatively minor streets -- East Park Drive and Chadwick Drive -- both already served by red lights, and creating an "L" that crosses two main roads)

 

Oh, and I almost forgot!

-higher density housing in Brentwood! Seriously people...you need to cater to professionals that DON'T want to live in a 3-5,000 sq ft house on an acre of land.

Edited by UTgrad09
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Some interesting things are happening in Cool Springs, for sure. What started out as a large mall, some freestanding restaurants, and a handful of strip shopping centers has turned into a massive retail machine, corporate center, and now residential center. Growing up on the south side of Nashville, and working in Cool Springs in high school, I've watched the area transform -- and it has been remarkable. But this remarkable growth has come at the cost of having traffic problems that can be an absolute nightmare at times. 

 

I do like that Franklin seems to be adapting to the times and attempting to create a more urban environment. But with all the damage done with the already constructed sprawling strip malls, stand-alone restaurants, and single family homes, it can't really be that urban. It can strive to be Green Hills urban -- that's about it. The live-work-play communities they construct might be attractive places to do such activities, but, at least to me, they all seem isolated. Have you ever attempted to walk around Cool Springs? The place takes up a larger land area than downtown and midtown combined. While the east side of 65 seems to be more park-like and "somewhat" pedestrian friendly (at least in comparison to the mall area), everything is still very spread out. The problem I see with these new urban communities is that they won't operate as urban communities (even most of Nashville's urban communities don't really operate in that way in comparison to a lot of peer cities). Since the urbanity will be somewhat isolated, it will still be totally car dependent, so in this case, I can see the argument against "more density" because what it will do is just stuff even more traffic into an already crowded Cool Springs. 

 

I'll give Franklin a lot of credit for doing a better job at planning -- but ultimately, the more that is added to Cool Springs, the more traffic issues the place will have. In the pure terms of having an area to live, work, and play...yes, Cool Springs and Williamson County have accomplished that. But that is NOT what I want the core to be. Our core has a long way to go -- but unlike Cool Springs, it has a chance to operate as a more cohesive neighborhood. Yes, right now we have splotches of urban residential...some of the core neighborhoods seem isolated right now. But as we continue to grow -- as these neighborhoods grow together (and someday, they will) you will have a fusion of urbanity, not a development here and there. What our core lacks -- what Cool Springs has in abundance -- is retail. But in Cool Springs, you have to drive to all of the retail. It's not even like with downtown Franklin, where you park in a single spot and walk around. Everything is incredibly spread out.

 

It is a competition, at least on some level. Cool Springs can (or at least might some day) provide a compromise for people looking for something more urban, but close to their job in the suburbs. I know from my posting on C-D of a number of folks who want to live in an urban environment, only to find downtown's options lacking, or that they have to work in Cool Springs. With such a huge workforce, and in some cases, because of their great schools, Cool Springs has a big advantage over Nashville.

 

 

 

 

I'll add more later, but it's getting late.

Add to the fact that Dwell is included in a larger project by Southern Land called McEwen development. The Northside will include a town center with over 500,000 more square feet of retail, restaurant, and office space. This portion was put on hold due to the economic downturn but is gaining the attention of national retailers and investors.

 

http://www.mcewen-tn.com/northside

 

On the south end of Franklin off the Peytonsville Road exit, Berry Farms is under construction. It is a massive retail, office, residential complex that will create even more traffic headaches. The sprawl is in full swing it seems.

 

http://berryfarmstn.com/master-plan/town-center/

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I think there is a concern about traffic and noise, so tweaking the plan isn't a bad thing. From what I saw, they were mostly lowering the office component, not retail or residential. Brentwood has enough damn offices. This project should be able to get by on residential and retail alone, anyways. I think the office and even the hotel is unnecessary. That area is clogged as all hell during rush hour. Removing 8-4/9-5 workers isn't really an awful idea.

 

The buffer zones are to protect the neighbors in back of them. If I lived there, I think I would want a large buffer zone as well. While this is an attempt at an urban project, we must remember that Brentwood's residents are still suburbanites. They didn't move there so they could walk to retail (though they might now).

 

I would be happy if they just keep with the spirit of the project.

 

The important things to me:

-compact, "walkable" design (you don't have to move your car as you go from store to store)

-building up instead of out (Brentwood is starting to run low on undeveloped land)

-a more urban "look" (it might not pass for urban in midtown or downtown, but Brentwood certainly lacks in this style of development)

--along with that, the idea of creating a Town Center or "downtown" Brentwood rather than just a bland sprawling office park and some $#itty 70s and 80s commercial junk.

-street connectivity (it connects two relatively minor streets -- East Park Drive and Chadwick Drive -- both already served by red lights, and creating an "L" that crosses two main roads)

 

Oh, and I almost forgot!

-higher density housing in Brentwood! Seriously people...you need to cater to professionals that DON'T want to live in a 3-5,000 sq ft house on an acre of land.

 

 

Could not agree more with this whole post. The aging people of Brentwood want a product to downsize too, there is not one in this area that really fits the bill. A nicely done Condo/Apartment development would clean up in this area.

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Some of the comments from the opposition are (somewhat) valid, like traffic, stormwater runoff, etc (though that would be an issue with just about ANYTHING except for green space proposed there)...others, like the impact on the schools, I think are less valid (300 units isn't going to have the same impact on schools as 300 houses...I have a feeling the vast majority of prospective residents will not have children).

 

But this one made me laugh:

 

"A huge shift in the city’s long-established identity as a single-family residential community with great schools and amenities into one with apartments, traffic and unrestrained growth."

 

HAHAHAHAHAHA

 

Oh, yes, those big bad apartments are going to RUIN your image. And let's not pretend like Brentwood's culture of sprawl, shopping centers, and vast neighborhoods of car dependent McMansions haven't contributed to traffic or can't be called "unrestrained growth." This IS restrained growth. With a city of around 40,000 with more than 40 square miles of land (18 square miles larger than 1950 Nashville). At some point, Brentwood is going to run out of suitable land. The hills & river to the west, Franklin to the south, Nashville to the north, and hills and Nolensville to the east. How many more McDevelopments can you build? Where are the new amenities going to go? Brentwood will never be a dense suburb by any stretch of the imagination. It won't even be Franklin or Hendersonville dense. Hell, it's less than Belle Meade dense right now. But no one expects it to be.

 

I get why Brentwood had such restrictive zoning back in the day. Not that I totally agree with it. But 3,000 sq ft houses on acre lots were designed to keep the riff raff out. But now that Brentwood is one of the most exclusive suburbs, not only in the city, but the region, I think it's time to realize that the market forces aren't going to allow for most of that riff raff to move in (with the exception of wealthy drug lords, white collar criminals, and wife-beating car dealership owners, perhaps).

 

I think such a stigma exists in Brentwood that any sort of multifamily development will lead to a lower quality of life. But it's not like these are going to be low rent Antioch-style apartments. If something gets built in Brentwood, land values alone demand that the rent be at a premium rate. Brentwood will retain it's affluent identity. I think it's time for some of these folks to realize that even among the well off, not all want to live in a massive house on a large lot. As samsonh brought up, there is an aging population in Brentwood looking to downsize...so why should they be forced to move out of the city? 

 

And the thought that this is unrestrained growth is laughable. Unrestrained growth is what you call what happened in your city from the 1970s-present. Not what this 17 acre development is doing. 

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A comment from the bottom of the page:

 

"Rental apartments, increased crime, traffic, and a project more than 3 times the Hills project in Green Hills does not make a "cool" property. This project should concern every residential property owner in Brentwood. Apartments, traffic and concrete at the entrance to our City do do help our property values. Commissioners vote NO!"

 

Obviously still stuck on "increased density = increased crime and lower property values."

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^^^good for them. Great vision on their part putting it near the Star station. Transit oriented development is what can help these cities prosper, and help the train prosper as well. It may just be a park at this point, but I'm looking forward to this one.

Yeah, with Mt. Juliet joining Lebanon in trying to work better with their Music City Star stations, there seems to be some positive momentum toward transit oriented development in otherwise famously rural Wilson County. 

Edited by bwithers1
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I don't want to get this too off topic, but the point of transit oriented development made me think about this.

Lebanon, and now Mount Juliet have proposed transit oriented development -- and more dense "town center" type developments. Gallatin has had a proposal for a bus or train friendly development near Vol State in the undeveloped void between it and Hendersonville. Franklin is developing several live-work-play type communities in and around town (whether you would call them "transit oriented" is another thing). Even Brentwood is getting in the game with town center zoning and now the Streets of Brentwood.

What the hell is going on in our largest suburban county, Rutherford? Murfreesboro? Smyrna? Where are you?

Maybe it's just me, but doesn't it seem they have been largely absent from even paying lip service to urban/smart growth development? Murfreesboro, with it's fairly large grid (for a suburb/exurb) would be wonderfully suited for this sort of thing. What is up with that?

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I don't want to get this too off topic, but the point of transit oriented development made me think about this.

Lebanon, and now Mount Juliet have proposed transit oriented development -- and more dense "town center" type developments. Gallatin has had a proposal for a bus or train friendly development near Vol State in the undeveloped void between it and Hendersonville. Franklin is developing several live-work-play type communities in and around town (whether you would call them "transit oriented" is another thing). Even Brentwood is getting in the game with town center zoning and now the Streets of Brentwood.

What the hell is going on in our largest suburban county, Rutherford? Murfreesboro? Smyrna? Where are you?

Maybe it's just me, but doesn't it seem they have been largely absent from even paying lip service to urban/smart growth development? Murfreesboro, with it's fairly large grid (for a suburb/exurb) would be wonderfully suited for this sort of thing. What is up with that?

I don't want to get this too off topic, but the point of transit oriented development made me think about this.

Lebanon, and now Mount Juliet have proposed transit oriented development -- and more dense "town center" type developments. Gallatin has had a proposal for a bus or train friendly development near Vol State in the undeveloped void between it and Hendersonville. Franklin is developing several live-work-play type communities in and around town (whether you would call them "transit oriented" is another thing). Even Brentwood is getting in the game with town center zoning and now the Streets of Brentwood.

What the hell is going on in our largest suburban county, Rutherford? Murfreesboro? Smyrna? Where are you?

Maybe it's just me, but doesn't it seem they have been largely absent from even paying lip service to urban/smart growth development? Murfreesboro, with it's fairly large grid (for a suburb/exurb) would be wonderfully suited for this sort of thing. What is up with that?

I think two things are in play here;

-growing pains

-old school thinking

I don't know squat about the politics in Rutherford Co., just my experience living in Murfreesboro for many years.

Rutherford Co. is, no doubt, growing quickly. There are some growing pains and the biggest one could be traffic. Most of the development focus in Murfreesboro tends to center on new roads, new roads, new roads. Murfreesboro is blessed with an old town square, but development is turning its back on the square. Instead, the "new downtown" is the rehab of the old Stones River Mall and the new shopping center nearby. This area was pitched as "new urbanism" and most of the folks have bought into it. However, this shopping area is still 100% car-centric. There is no residential space, and very little office space. Strictly retail and hotels. Meanwhile, the city is slowly destroying the old town square.

There is also a lot of "old school" thinking in Rutherford Co. People still think sprawling subdivisions are the only way to develop. There is no street connectivity. Zoning keeps work and home very far from each other.

MTSU is just as bad. The school has its own bus system. Rover also goes to campus as well as MTA. Currently, there is no central bus transfer location. I beg and pleaded for one, but was always ignored.

I would these cities would be working with Nashville to at least STUDY a rail connection, but that's giving them too much credit I guess.

Sorry I'm being so negative. Just getting frustrated with these things.

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I don't want to get this too off topic, but the point of transit oriented development made me think about this.

Lebanon, and now Mount Juliet have proposed transit oriented development -- and more dense "town center" type developments. Gallatin has had a proposal for a bus or train friendly development near Vol State in the undeveloped void between it and Hendersonville. Franklin is developing several live-work-play type communities in and around town (whether you would call them "transit oriented" is another thing). Even Brentwood is getting in the game with town center zoning and now the Streets of Brentwood.

What the hell is going on in our largest suburban county, Rutherford? Murfreesboro? Smyrna? Where are you?

Maybe it's just me, but doesn't it seem they have been largely absent from even paying lip service to urban/smart growth development? Murfreesboro, with it's fairly large grid (for a suburb/exurb) would be wonderfully suited for this sort of thing. What is up with that?

As a resident of Murfreesboro, I am often disgusted with the lack of vision for my community. Yes we have seen growth, and will continue to see growth, yet our city leaders are twenty years behind in their development approval. We've needed new roads and mass transit for a long time, yet instead, the focus has been on tax staples like, alcohol, tobacco, and strip malls. Murfreesboro had the opportunity many years ago to make the transition from a suburban bedroom community into an urban arm of Nashville, in its development patterns and business attraction. Murfreesboro's traffic woes continue to negate the quality of life the city often touts. We've needed better access downtown, limited access routes, etc. Where are the Briley Parkways, I-440's or Music City Stars? Not here.

 

Some have mentioned the Rutherford County's lack of new urbanism. There were quite a few developments that were scaled back or canceled during the recession. Included are the Westlawn development, that was to include a new YMCA, library, bookstore, and town center, Marymont Springs's town center was also eliminated. Phase two of the Avenues was also put on hold. Marymont Springs and Westlawn actually had pedestrian crosswalks, sidewalks, and bus routes incorporated into their plans. Think of the McEwen development in Cool Springs. Heck, downtown even had a six story condo tower proposed, with land purchased and contractors committed to the design. Today that land is green space.

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I am so impressed by the speed and scope of Franklin Park...  who is the developer?  I think they deserve credit for not simply making a big announcement and then doing nothing for years and years. What those photos do not show are the very nice midrise building just to the left of the first photo (to the right in the second one).  I was there a few months back (after about 3 years) and my jaw dropped in amazement.  A bit sad though that many of those buildings come at a cost of businesses and workers moving out of the downtown area.

Edited by MLBrumby
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What those photos do not show are the very nice midrise building just to the left of the first photo (to the right in the second one).  

 

That would be Nissan NA headquarters. And yes, definitely a nice building for a midrise. I don't like the pulling-from-the-core of this project, but I have a feeling it won't be another business park as we know it. Pat Emery/Spectrum will do a good job with it, and like I said before, this is a project I would like to see in SoBro or the North Capitol area...

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Out of curiosity, where is the location of the former proposed 6 story condo building?

West Main @ Front Street.

 

Part of the probelm was that the city wanted the developers to conform to such a strict design that it was part of the reason it failed, that and the economy falling apart. That is a significant problem with the city's thinking, it has to conform and be the same. Look at the "Gateway District" for instance. Nearly everything out there is brick, and it's really getting old.

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