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Surrounding Counties - Cheatham, Dickson, Montgomery, Rutherford, Sumner, Wilson, Williamson, Maury, etc.


Rural King

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It's a shame. It is a nice looking development.

 

143.jpg

 

It's not bad. I would prefer better colors and a more interesting roof, though.

 

I think the problem is...it's Ashland City.

 

(Relatively speaking, of course) it's not on the way anywhere. It's not near an interstate. It doesn't sit along a US highway. It's not in an area poised for growth. It's the wrong project in the wrong town. Had this been in Hendersonville, Mount Juliet, or even Gallatin, it might have worked. It was doomed from the start, here.

 

 

 

Rent them out as vacation homes and start touting Ashland City as a getaway destination. OK, I'm mostly kidding, there.

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Only about 3 or so units are occupied from what I have heard. Maybe a few more than that, but Rankin is a crook and screwed over a lot of people.

 

He hoodooed the city, state, investors and the bank and should face criminal charges. I had heard they extradited him from NH or where ever he is now but who knows.

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Just to bring some out of the box thoughts and conversation to the table, I disagree with the "doomed from the start" idea. Yes, I am aware that the development is in an unfortunate state right now--and obviously it has not been successful in the least--however I think I can see what the developer was originally thinking. Here me out:

Ashland City is really no further away from downtown Nashville than Nolensville--and Nolensville is hot right now. Any land twenty miles out from the city is a commodity. And it will be extremely valuable as these commuter suburbs develop over the next twenty five years at the exponential rate they are now. I do agree with your statement that Ashland City is really "not on the way anywhere." But I do believe that in the next decade or two you will see an extension of 840 to south Clarksville (or Pleasant View, rather) that stretches on through Springfield, White House, and connects Gallatin to Lebanon. Such infrastructure will poise Ashland City for some very prime development--much like a Lenox Vllage of sorts. Another plus is the river and bay-like thing that make it very similar to Hendersonville, and we all know everyone loves to pay to live next to water. The river, to me, adds a demonsion that a Nolensville or a Fairview can't give you, while being roughly the same distance from downtown Nashville.

I imagine every developer has a multitude of different reasons for taking on a project, though I have to believe that some of those developers function under the "if you build it, they will come" philosophy. Before this guy took on this project I can almost guarantee he sat with some of the investors at a fancy lunch and one of them said, "The Braxton Condos will put Ashland City on the map." A similar comment was probably made before Lenox Vllage was a done deal. In the case of Lenox Village, it was a huge success. In the case of Braxton--not so much. The projects are similar and different at the same time. But ultimately, Braxton was ahead of its time. It's the Sega Dreamcast of Metropolitan Nashville. Who knows what it might have been had they added retail to the bottom floor and a small office building next door. Maybe it would have worked better. At the end of the day, it was a risky venture, as some of the most successful projects are. In this case, however, it just didn't work. At least, it hasn't yet.

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Just to bring some out of the box thoughts and conversation to the table, I disagree with the "doomed from the start" idea. Yes, I am aware that the development is in an unfortunate state right now--and obviously it has not been successful in the least--however I think I can see what the developer was originally thinking. Here me out:

Ashland City is really no further away from downtown Nashville than Nolensville--and Nolensville is hot right now. Any land twenty miles out from the city is a commodity. And it will be extremely valuable as these commuter suburbs develop over the next twenty five years at the exponential rate they are now. I do agree with your statement that Ashland City is really "not on the way anywhere." But I do believe that in the next decade or two you will see an extension of 840 to south Clarksville (or Pleasant View, rather) that stretches on through Springfield, White House, and connects Gallatin to Lebanon. Such infrastructure will poise Ashland City for some very prime development--much like a Lenox Vllage of sorts. Another plus is the river and bay-like thing that make it very similar to Hendersonville, and we all know everyone loves to pay to live next to water. The river, to me, adds a demonsion that a Nolensville or a Fairview can't give you, while being roughly the same distance from downtown Nashville.

I imagine every developer has a multitude of different reasons for taking on a project, though I have to believe that some of those developers function under the "if you build it, they will come" philosophy. Before this guy took on this project I can almost guarantee he sat with some of the investors at a fancy lunch and one of them said, "The Braxton Condos will put Ashland City on the map." A similar comment was probably made before Lenox Vllage was a done deal. In the case of Lenox Village, it was a huge success. In the case of Braxton--not so much. The projects are similar and different at the same time. But ultimately, Braxton was ahead of its time. It's the Sega Dreamcast of Metropolitan Nashville. Who knows what it might have been had they added retail to the bottom floor and a small office building next door. Maybe it would have worked better. At the end of the day, it was a risky venture, as some of the most successful projects are. In this case, however, it just didn't work. At least, it hasn't yet.

 

I get where you're coming from, and I didn't mean it to sound like a slight against Ashland City. It's got its charms as a small town.

 

I don't think the comparison to Nolensville is a good one because Nolensville is exploding simply because it is surrounded by development. It's not merely the distance from town, but the fact that there is development between. Nolensville is about 3 miles from the encroaching Nashville development at Concord Road south of Lenox Village, while Ashland City is a good 13 miles from the Briley loop (which isn't as heavily developed on that side. The closest place seeing any sort of real suburban development is Pleasant View, which is about 8 miles away (and not towards the direction of the main development).

 

I also think Lenox Village is a much different type of development than Braxton. Braxton is a couple of high rise towers surrounded by...nothing. Not far from the town...but there's no other component. Lenox Village is a low/midrise multifamily and single family mega development with a sizable retail component built in. If Braxton were a part of a larger development with shops and other apartments/housing, I could see the parallel...but it's not. It has the look of a (small) Gulf Coast condo development on the Florida panhandle or Alabama coast. 

 

Nolensville is also adjacent to Brentwood and Smyrna, both of which have around 40,000 residents and are growing rapidly. Nolensville is also relatively flat, by Nashville standards, while Ashland City is hemmed in by twisting and turning hills and ridges that are not suitable for any sort of large scale development.

 

Nolensville surrounding terrain:

https://maps.google.com/maps?ll=35.952997,-86.64917&spn=0.153689,0.338173&t=p&z=12

 

Ashland City surrounding terrain:

https://maps.google.com/maps?ll=36.272788,-87.050858&spn=0.153065,0.338173&t=p&z=12

 

 

As Nashville grows bigger, I'm sure it will have an effect on Ashland City and Cheatham County, but the area itself is very limited on where it can grow. The flat areas around Ashland City are in the river basin...which might not be a flood plain throughout, but the effects of the 2010 flood will probably influence growth around low lying areas throughout the region. That, along with the gap between development (which is filled with the aforementioned terrain barrier) will probably actually insulate Ashland City from the type of boom growth seen on the south, southeast, east, and northeast sides of the city...which is actually a good thing, in my opinion.

 

I also disagree with 840 being extended. 840 was an 80s/90s vision of a mega bypass...a really ambitious project. It ended up being incredibly costly, and was fought hard in some areas (especially southwest Williamson). It already connects the majority of the 'big' suburbs (albeit past most of them). I don't really see a need for a connection to Clarksville. The biggest need is the connection to Gallatin and Portland, which will not happen as part of 840, but rather the widening of TN-109 (which is mostly complete).

 

The planned 840 northern loop isn't shelved...it's cancelled. It would be incredibly costly to build through much rougher terrain than the south loop, plus it is about 23 miles longer and the communities on that side of town are much, much smaller.

 

 

In the case of Braxton...as I jokingly said earlier...it has more of a "vacation condo" appeal rather than a viable commuter/suburb appeal. If Ashland City became a wealthy boat/yacht destination, it and similar projects could be pretty successful....an escape for wealthy doctors and lawyers on the weekends, but not too far from the comforts of a city. It would likely be more successful if this is how it was marketed, and if there were more similar developments as well as amenities to complement it. Of course, after getting burned like this, I doubt Ashland City will be quick to allow anything close to this in the future. I think it would take a local developer with a sound track record (like HG Hill) to 'save' this sort of project by adding to it. But with the economy the way it is, I imagine Ashland City is looked at as somewhat of a riskier investment for that sort of development.

 

 

As a last note, I think Cheatham County will be very slow to grow over the next couple of decades. Pegram and Kingston Springs have limited space and flooding concerns with the Harpeth River, despite being close to the interstate. Ashland City, as I already mentioned, has tremendous terrain barriers. A huge portion of the county (between P/KS and AC) is a wildlife management area and will never be developed. The only area I can see really growing is Pleasant View...because it is right on the interstate, relatively flat (again, by Nashville standards), and roughly halfway between two large employment bases (Nashville and Clarksville).

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Kevin, we talked about this. For the love of all that is good, give us a TL;DR at the bottom so we can get a gist! LOL kidding. I agree with your notes about Braxton/Ashland City though, especially in the comparison to Nashville, and why I continue to believe it was doomed from the start. When they made the announcement, it was all I could do not to just laugh it off. When I saw cranes on site, I got overwhelmingly sad, knowing that the town couldn't support the lifestyle that project like this normally demand. 

 

All said, it's done, and something does need to be done with them, otherwise they will become our own version of the Ryugyong Hotel.

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Kevin, we talked about this. For the love of all that is good, give us a TL;DR at the bottom so we can get a gist! LOL kidding. I agree with your notes about Braxton/Ashland City though, especially in the comparison to Nashville, and why I continue to believe it was doomed from the start. When they made the announcement, it was all I could do not to just laugh it off. When I saw cranes on site, I got overwhelmingly sad, knowing that the town couldn't support the lifestyle that project like this normally demand. 

 

All said, it's done, and something does need to be done with them, otherwise they will become our own version of the Ryugyong Hotel.

Cliffs version: Ashland City's hilly, son. It ain't growin' anytime soon.

As for the Ryugyong Hotel...thankfully it's nothing that massive, and thankfully it's FINISHED.

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But I do believe that in the next decade or two you will see an extension of 840 to south Clarksville (or Pleasant View, rather) that stretches on through Springfield, White House, and connects Gallatin to Lebanon.

 

 

840 North is dead. Not going to happen. However, Highway 109 between I40 near Lebanon and I65 near Portland is being improved and may act as a mini-partial 840N.

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Once again, Clarksville's growth is in the news. This time on a national level. (From yesterday's 'Tennessean').

 

A retiree magnet, Clarksville area is No. 2 for its population boom

 

And from 2011 to 2012, the Clarksville area ranked as the second-fastest growing metropolitan statistical area in the nation with 3.7 percent growth. Clarksville shares its MSA with Christian and Trigg counties in Kentucky.

 

CLARKSVILLE METRO AREA: 274,343 people 3.7% growth 2nd fastest in nation 169th biggest metro

 

How will Clarksville deal with this kind of growth? Will we see more mid-rise office development? Better roads? A minor league baseball team?

Edited by PHofKS
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I found this surprising when doing my research with the numbers:

 

Top 10 fastest growing counties by raw growth in Tennessee

rank) County - raw growth - (2012 pop)

1) Davidson - 21,611 - (648,295)

2) Shelby - 13,124 - (940,764)

3) Montgomery - 12,127 - (184,468)

4) Rutherford - 11,850 - (274,454)

5) Williamson - 9,731 - (192,911)

6) Knox - 9,082 - (441,311)

7) Hamilton - 9,080 - (345,545)

8) Sumner - 5,478 - (166,123)

9) Wilson - 4,971 - (118,961)

10) Sevier - 2,623 - (92,512)

 

It does not surprise me that Davidson is leading the pack (though the amount of estimated growth is slightly surprising). It's slightly surprising that Shelby is second. I was genuinely shocked to see Montgomery was close behind in 3rd, higher than Rutherford and Williamson. In fact, if this pace continues until 2020, Montgomery will edge out Williamson as the 6th largest county in the state (232,976 to 231,835).

 

As for what this rapid growth will lead to...hopefully it will lead to smarter planning. Clarksville is a bit off from I-24, so connections need to be made that distribute traffic efficiently. I do think Clarksville needs to strengthen their connections to their core area, rather than concentrate entirely on new growth. 

 

I also think with this level of growth, there could be a need for a greater connection between Nashville and Clarksville. A regional rail service would be quite nice...and since there is only Ashland City between the two cities (on the proposed rail line), it could be fast, and effective. I don't say this suggesting that Clarksville will become another Nashville suburb/exurb, but rather as a secondary regional hub.

 

I don't foresee office development in the near future, but perhaps if Austin Peay builds up their profile, you'll see a boom of new development in the downtown area.

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It's good to hear a suburban development embracing their proximity to rail. It makes me wonder just how closely they are embracing it.

In my dream world, they would build a Main Street that crosses the tracks at the location of the station. Main Street would have small businesses, 2-3 floors maximum, and a walkable feel. Track homes can fan out away from main. Maybe a few dense apartments right behind the Main St. Commercial zone.

By its hard to tell from the site plan in the article. It looks like its just a standard subdivision that happens to be beside the tracks.

Is there even a planned station, or is that a pipe dream of the developer?

The article states;

"Hamilton Springs is being built around a planned depot for the Music City Star commuter train".

So who is planning the depot? The developer, MTA, or are they doing it together?

Edited by nashvillwill
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Seven Springs Apartments... ehhhh, they're ok.  Sort of seeing this design popping up all over these days.  Still better than the old-style multi-building garden apartment complexes, especially considering that this is the suburbs.  http://nashvillepost.com/blogs/postbusiness/2013/3/21/a_first_look_at_seven_springs_luxury_apartments

 

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  • 2 weeks later...

Southstar is also developing a 500,000 million dollar project in Franklin. It is now on hold for a little while because of traffic issues. I expect that will be solved as well.

 

http://www.tennessean.com/article/20130329/WILLIAMSON01/130329028/Proposed-500M-office-Cool-Springs-project-faces-delays-over-traffic-concerns

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Can someone tell me why there is a height restriction in Franklin on buildings?  I drove through Buckhead today and marveled at the beautiful tall buildings in this burb of Atlanta.  It's a shame because it would look nice to have a corridor of large building on the east side of 65.  I doubt we will ever see a burb of Nashville with large buildings surrounding the city as such.

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Can someone tell me why there is a height restriction in Franklin on buildings?  I drove through Buckhead today and marveled at the beautiful tall buildings in this burb of Atlanta.  It's a shame because it would look nice to have a corridor of large building on the east side of 65.  I doubt we will ever see a burb of Nashville with large buildings surrounding the city as such.

 

I'd be willing to bet that it has something to do with some ridiculous, misguided notion of "preserving" the community...the entire gridlocked, sprawled out and asphalt frosted community. There are several suburbs here in Chicagoland that have such restrictions for such reasons.

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Downtown Franklin is certainly worthy of preservation.  I'm less sure about the outskirts.  Which Chicago suburbs are you referring to?

I'd be willing to bet that it has something to do with some ridiculous, misguided notion of "preserving" the community...the entire gridlocked, sprawled out and asphalt frosted community. There are several suburbs here in Chicagoland that have such restrictions for such reasons.

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