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Surrounding Counties - Cheatham, Dickson, Montgomery, Rutherford, Sumner, Wilson, Williamson, Maury, etc.


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Does anyone know the commuting numbers between Nashville and Clarksville that the government uses to define MSAs? I would venture to bet that Clarksville will eventually hit whatever number they use to include them in the MSA. And not just because of commutes from Clarksville to Nashville but also because of commenters from Nashville/Springfield/Ashland city to Clarksville with the increasing number of jobs.

 

It's not particularly close to happening. CSA could happen at the next Census, though I think it will just miss. 

 

MSA? Yeah, maybe if they close Fort Campbell. While the base is on the border, it is technically considered to be in Kentucky, so the largest share of Montgomery County commuters (leaving the county) go to Christian County, KY, not anywhere in TN.

 

About 11.3% of Montgomery County commuters work in the Nashville MSA...or about 8,400. 5,000 of those commute to Davidson County itself.

 

About 2,700 residents in the Nashville MSA commute to Montgomery County.

 

Almost 17,000 Montgomery County commuters (23%) work in Christian County, obviously mostly at Fort Campbell.

 

 

The CSA is a reasonable goal, but unless we invade Kentucky and declare Fort Campbell to be ours, it will be a long time until Montgomery County is in our MSA, if ever. 

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Clarksville is already its own MSA, I believe shared with Hopkinsville in the name. If it does get added, it'd be added to the CSA the way Columbia was as a separate MicroSA in the greater equation. So then we'd have one giant name, likely the Nashville-Davidson-Murfreesboro-Clarksville CSA, obviously with Franklin dropped for #s sake.

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Hopkinsville was dropped from the official name of the Clarksville MSA about ten years ago, as it was not considered a "principal" city anymore.  

 

From Wikipedia.org:   "Prior to 2003, the area was officially known as the Clarksville-Hopkinsville Metropolitan Statistical Area and included only Montgomery and Christian counties.[2] In 2003, Hopkinsville was removed from the official name as it was no longer considered a principal city.[3] That year, Stewart and Trigg counties were also added to the MSA."

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clarksville_metropolitan_area

 

Also, TDOT's long range plan for I-24 is to widen it to at least 3+3 from border to border.  But it is a 20 year plan. The stretch east through Rutherford was the first big segment, and that sucked a lot of funds.  But I don't believe any funds are currently earmarked for that particular project.  Obviously, Chattanooga has a crying need for widening and access roads through that mess. 

Edited by MLBrumby
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Does anyone know the commuting numbers between Nashville and Clarksville that the government uses to define MSAs? I would venture to bet that Clarksville will eventually hit whatever number they use to include them in the MSA. And not just because of commutes from Clarksville to Nashville but also because of commenters from Nashville/Springfield/Ashland city to Clarksville with the increasing number of jobs.

I don't think we'll see any "real" commercial air service out of Clarksville for the foreseeable future (decades). BNA still has a tremendous amount of excess capacity so it wouldn't really be a relief airport. WIthout doing any additional construction the BNA could probably increase passenger counts by 50% by utilizing the vacated AA space. Clarksville's not far enough away from Nashville to overcome the convenience factor of direct flights. I would point to the relationship between Toledo Express Airport and Detroit's airport. Toledo can barely support air service because of the proximity to DTW and its array of direct fights, and Toledo is home to three Fortune 500 companies and a catchment area 4-5 times the size of Clarksville's. The travel time from Toledo to DTW is almost exactly that of Clarksville to BNA. Clarksville's catchment area would also be very small; it would essentially be Clarksville itself and Hopkinsville. Further up I-24 you quickly come into Paducah's catchment area and its jet service to Chicago O'hare.

It might be possible to get an independent company to run 10 seat props to a place like Nashville, Memphis, or St Louis, but it would have to be heavily subsidized and would serve an extremely niche market.

In terms of convenience, BNA is already more convenient to Clarksville businesses than any company in places like Lower Manhattan or Downtown Chicago. In reality, those places aren't very "convenient" to airports and they attract corporate headquarters by the hundreds. Clarksville's 45 minute drive to BNA won't serve as a major impediment to any company locating there (as evidenced by the increasing number of jobs coming).

I would agree with you if there weren't significantly smaller cities like Panama City Florida or your own example of Paducah, KY that have their own commercial airports. Also, the reason why Toledo has the express airport is because it replaced the municipal airport back in 1955. The city maintains both a municipal airport and the express airport today. However, I agree that having BNA only helps Clarksville, as you suggested, but not so much for other parts of Western Kentucky such as Murray, Mayfield, Hopkinsville, Madisonville ( the stronger case could be made for Bowling Green which heavily depends on BNA for air service).

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For the discussion of 'end to end' widening of I-24, I thought it would be helpful to post the traffic counts for I-24. Lanes posted as per side.

 

-Near Kentucky border (2 lanes) - 33,274

-Between exits 1 and 4 (2 lanes) - 41,823 -- Clarksville

-Between exits 4 and 8 (2 lanes) - 41,651 -- Clarksville

-Between exits 8 and 11 (2 lanes) - 50,421 -- Clarksville

-Between exits 11 and 19 (2 lanes) - 44,843

-Between exits 19 and 24 (2 lanes) - 46,619

-Between exits 24 and 31 (2 lanes) - 46,082

-Between exits 31 and 35 (2 lanes) - 55,588 -- Joelton

-Between exits 35 and 40 (2 lanes) - 64,976

-Between exits 40 and 43 (2-3 lanes) - 64,616

-Between exits 43 and 44 (3 lanes) - 53,730 -- Briley Pkwy

-Between exits 44 and 45 (4 lanes) - 142,350 -- I-65 split/Trinity Ln

-Between exits 45 and 46 (4 lanes) - 161,637 -- Downtown loop

-Between exits 46 and 47 (3 lanes) - 102,166

-Between exits 47 and 48 (3 lanes) - 117,695

-Between exits 48 and 49 (3-4 lanes) - 127,367

-Between exits 49 and 50 (4 lanes) - 139,540 -- Silliman Evans Bridge

-Between exits 50 and 51 (4 lanes) - 170,005 

-Between exit 51 (4 lanes) - 177,779 -- Fesslers Ln/Hermitage Ave partial exit

-Between exits 51 and 52 (4 lanes) - 149,810 -- 24/40 split

-Between exits 52 and 53 (4-5 lanes) - 146,608 -- 440 split

-Between exits 53 and 54 (5 lanes) - 166,744 -- Briley Pkwy

-Between exits 54 and 56 (4 lanes) - 169,431

-Between exits 56 and 57 (5 lanes) - 165,632

-Between exits 57 and 59 (4 lanes) - 156,984 -- Bell Rd/Haywood Ln

-Between exits 59 and 60 (4 lanes) - 146,019

-Between exits 60 and 62 (4 lanes) - 145,200

-Between exits 62 and 64 (4 lanes) - 137,964 -- La Vergne

-Between exits 64 and 66 (4 lanes) - 135,004 -- Smyrna

-Between exits 66 and 70 (4 lanes) - 108,670 -- Smyrna

-Between exits 70 and 74 (4 lanes) - 97,458 -- TN 840

-Between exits 74 and 76 (4 lanes) - 101,348 -- Murfreesboro

-Between exits 76 and 78 (4 lanes) - 92,702 -- Murfreesboro

-Between exits 78 and 80 (4 lanes) - 78,142 -- Murfreesboro

-Between exits 80 and 81 (4 lanes) - 70,614 -- Murfreesboro

-Between exits 81 and 84 (2 lanes) - 41,629 -- Murfreesboro

-Between exits 84 and 89 (2 lanes) - 37,044

-Between exits 89 and 97 (2 lanes) - 33,910

-Between exits 97 and 105 (2 lanes) - 39,277

-Between exits 105 and 110 (2 lanes) - 39,568

-Between exits 110 and 111 (2 lanes) - 41,223 -- Manchester

-Between exits 111 and 114 (2 lanes) - 40,724 -- Manchester

-Between exits 114 and 117 (2 lanes) - 36,278

-Between exits 117 and 127 (2 lanes) - 32,941

-Between exits 127 and 134 (2 lanes) - 33,059

-Between exits 134 and 135 (2 lanes) - 32,939

-Between exits 135 and 143 (3 lanes) - 33,508 -- ascent/decent of Monteagle Mountain

-Between exits 143 and 152 (2 lanes) - 33,677

-Between exits 152 and 155 (2 lanes) - 46,295 -- Kimball/Jasper

-Between exits 155 and 158 (2 lanes) - 46,860

-Between exits 158 and 161 (2 lanes) - 49,349

-Between exits 161 and 167 (2 lanes) - 48,323

-Between exits 167 and 174 (2 lanes) - 67,325 -- I-59 interchange

-Between exits 174 and 175 (2 lanes) - 69,628

-Between exits 175 and 178 (2 lanes) - 70,208

-Between exits 178 and 180 (4 lanes) - 116,420 -- US 27/downtown Chattanooga

-Between exits 180 and 181 (3-4 lanes) - 115,267

-Between exits 181 and 183 (3 lanes) - 113,877 -- Missionary Ridge

-Between exits 183 and 184 (3 lanes) - 107,798

-Between exits 184 and 185 (3 lanes) - 129,963 -- eastern terminus @ I-75

 

This took a while to compile. I'll add some comments in a little while.

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UTGrad09,

Excellent data...it also helps to clarify the need regarding I24 expansion. Looking at the data you have compiled I would say that Chattanooga has a primary need (into and out of the west side, exits 167-178, but also Kimball and South) followed by the Nashville to Clarksville stretch. My concern is that the growth in these areas appears to be faster than the rumored I24 expansion plans allow for. When you consider that a new plant will open off exit 8 employing 1800 people within a couple of years (Hankook Tire), with rumored additional industrial growth this will guarantee a travel nightmare for years to come (plus prove to be a restriction on future growth).

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Some selected stretches of interstate sorted by cars per lane (note: I changed lanes to reflect both sides of the interstate):

 

-Fesslers Ln in Nashville (8 lanes) - 177,779 -- 22,222

-near I-75 interchange in Chattanooga (6 lanes) - 129,963 -- 21,661

-Main St to Shelby Ave in East Nashville (6 lanes) - 127,367 -- 21,228

-Briley Pkwy to Harding Place in SE Nashville (8 lanes) - 169,431 -- 21,179

-Trinity Ln to northern downtown loop in Nashville (8 lanes) - 161,637 -- 20,205 

-Missionary Ridge in Chattanooga (6 lanes) - 113,877 -- 18,980

-24/65 split to Trinity Ln in Nashville (8 lanes) - 142,350 -- 17,794

-Browns Ferry Rd to US 27 in Chattanooga (4 lanes) - 70,208 -- 17,552

-Old Hickory Blvd to Waldron Rd in La Vergne (8 lanes) - 137,964 -- 17,246 

-I-59 interchange to US 64/72 in Chattanooga (4 lanes) - 67,325 -- 16,831

-Whites Creek Pk to Old Hickory Blvd in Joelton (4 lanes) - 64,976 -- 16,244

-US 27 to Rossville Blvd in downtown Chattanooga (8 lanes) - 116,420 -- 14,553

-New Hope Rd to Whites Creek Pk in Joelton/North Cheatham (4 lanes) - 55,588 -- 13,897

-Sam Ridley Pkwy to Almaville Rd in Smyrna (8 lanes) - 108,670 -- 13,584

-Rossview Rd to TN 76 in Clarksville (4 lanes) - 50,421 -- 12,605

-Bridge over Nickajack Lake in Marion County (4 lanes) - 49,349 -- 12,337

-Medical Center Pkwy to Old Fort Pkwy in Murfreesboro (8 lanes) - 92,702 -- 11,588 

-Trenton Rd to Wilma Rudolph Blvd in Clarksville (4 lanes) - 41,823 -- 10,456

-S Church St to Joe B Jackson Pkwy in SE Murfreesboro (4 lanes) - 41,629 -- 10,407

-Woodbury Hwy to McMinnville Hwy in Manchester (4 lanes) - 41,223 -- 10,306

-New Salem Rd to S Church St in Murfreesboro (8 lanes) - 70,614 -- 8,827

-Kentucky border to Trenton Rd in Clarksville (4 lanes) - 33,274 -- 8,319

-On top of Monteagle Mountain (4 lanes) - 32,939 8,235

 

Of course it should be noted that simply looking at the cars per lane does not necessarily reflect traffic conditions, because of factors such as narrow or curvy stretches and stretches with lots of merging traffic. With a 2 lane per side interstate, traffic can be a big problem because of the lack of opportunities to pass...so just because a 2 lane stretch has a lower per car average doesn't mean it has fewer traffic problems.

 

I do think this confirms that Chattanooga is definitely the area that needs the most improvements for I-24, since most of its more traveled sections are 2 and 3 lanes per side. The problem with the top of the list is that these are urban interstate sections that either have a limited ROW or have some tough topography to overcome in order to be widened (especially in the case of Chattanooga). I think the reason why you see the stretch in Rutherford at 4 lanes per side for so far is because it was a much easier (and likely less expensive) job than fixing some of the urban portions.

 

As this relates to Clarksville -- it becomes apparent that it is lower on the priority list in terms of current traffic levels (these are from 2012)...but with the area growing as fast as it is, the state does need to keep an eye on it, because it could get bad very quickly. Some sections haven't changed much in the last 10 years. Some have seen traffic increase by ~10,000 cars per day.

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The airport part would be negated by the fact BNA has enough room, and is in future plans, to build another terminal for international flights and another runway parallel to the eastern runway.

still, more info please, I looked at terminal size and there is definite room for expansion of the current one, concourse A could extended for smaller planes north and slightly west, while B could get its own right turn to mirror C, D is completely a waste of space at this point and could be expanded east.  all of this plus there could be room for a remote concourse straight out from the security area in the open space between the current concrete and the taxiways. 

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https://flynashville.com/about/Documents/WorkingPaper4-3-8-13Final.pdf

 

The revised Master Plan released in March of this year talks about new terminal and runway plans, amongst other things.

 

 

I got a warning from chrome for a potentially bad link, so I changed it from https to http and it seemed to work fine.

 

Just fyi.

Edited by UTgrad09
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  • 2 weeks later...

drove around Cool Springs yesterday looking for an apartment, (I know I know but that is where I got a job and I don't like commuting.)  anyway, snapped a couple quick shots from my car of what I believe is Franklin Park, this is the northwest corner of McEwen and Caruthers.  Sorry they arent better, someone was tailgating me and I couldnt slow down.

 

10711820586_a025dc8e6a.jpg
 
Edited by volsfanwill
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Some selected stretches of interstate sorted by cars per lane (note: I changed lanes to reflect both sides of the interstate):

 

-Fesslers Ln in Nashville (8 lanes) - 177,779 -- 22,222

-near I-75 interchange in Chattanooga (6 lanes) - 129,963 -- 21,661

-Main St to Shelby Ave in East Nashville (6 lanes) - 127,367 -- 21,228

-Briley Pkwy to Harding Place in SE Nashville (8 lanes) - 169,431 -- 21,179

-Trinity Ln to northern downtown loop in Nashville (8 lanes) - 161,637 -- 20,205 

-Missionary Ridge in Chattanooga (6 lanes) - 113,877 -- 18,980

-24/65 split to Trinity Ln in Nashville (8 lanes) - 142,350 -- 17,794

-Browns Ferry Rd to US 27 in Chattanooga (4 lanes) - 70,208 -- 17,552

-Old Hickory Blvd to Waldron Rd in La Vergne (8 lanes) - 137,964 -- 17,246 

-I-59 interchange to US 64/72 in Chattanooga (4 lanes) - 67,325 -- 16,831

-Whites Creek Pk to Old Hickory Blvd in Joelton (4 lanes) - 64,976 -- 16,244

-US 27 to Rossville Blvd in downtown Chattanooga (8 lanes) - 116,420 -- 14,553

-New Hope Rd to Whites Creek Pk in Joelton/North Cheatham (4 lanes) - 55,588 -- 13,897

-Sam Ridley Pkwy to Almaville Rd in Smyrna (8 lanes) - 108,670 -- 13,584

-Rossview Rd to TN 76 in Clarksville (4 lanes) - 50,421 -- 12,605

-Bridge over Nickajack Lake in Marion County (4 lanes) - 49,349 -- 12,337

-Medical Center Pkwy to Old Fort Pkwy in Murfreesboro (8 lanes) - 92,702 -- 11,588 

-Trenton Rd to Wilma Rudolph Blvd in Clarksville (4 lanes) - 41,823 -- 10,456

-S Church St to Joe B Jackson Pkwy in SE Murfreesboro (4 lanes) - 41,629 -- 10,407

-Woodbury Hwy to McMinnville Hwy in Manchester (4 lanes) - 41,223 -- 10,306

-New Salem Rd to S Church St in Murfreesboro (8 lanes) - 70,614 -- 8,827

-Kentucky border to Trenton Rd in Clarksville (4 lanes) - 33,274 -- 8,319

-On top of Monteagle Mountain (4 lanes) - 32,939 8,235

 

Of course it should be noted that simply looking at the cars per lane does not necessarily reflect traffic conditions, because of factors such as narrow or curvy stretches and stretches with lots of merging traffic. With a 2 lane per side interstate, traffic can be a big problem because of the lack of opportunities to pass...so just because a 2 lane stretch has a lower per car average doesn't mean it has fewer traffic problems.

 

I do think this confirms that Chattanooga is definitely the area that needs the most improvements for I-24, since most of its more traveled sections are 2 and 3 lanes per side. The problem with the top of the list is that these are urban interstate sections that either have a limited ROW or have some tough topography to overcome in order to be widened (especially in the case of Chattanooga). I think the reason why you see the stretch in Rutherford at 4 lanes per side for so far is because it was a much easier (and likely less expensive) job than fixing some of the urban portions.

 

As this relates to Clarksville -- it becomes apparent that it is lower on the priority list in terms of current traffic levels (these are from 2012)...but with the area growing as fast as it is, the state does need to keep an eye on it, because it could get bad very quickly. Some sections haven't changed much in the last 10 years. Some have seen traffic increase by ~10,000 cars per day.

 

 

 

 

Some selected stretches of interstate sorted by cars per lane (note: I changed lanes to reflect both sides of the interstate):

 

 

-Medical Center Pkwy to Old Fort Pkwy in Murfreesboro (8 lanes) - 92,702 -- 11,588 

 

Thank you for comprising such a detailed list. Just a quick correction, though.

 

-Medical Center Parkway to Old Fort Pkwy in Murfreesboro is 10 lanes.

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I know there's a heap of "new" things in M'boro, as I pass through there regularly.  

 

Here is just something that I really didn't have to dig around to find.  The Tennessean and Post report that Germany-based Schwan Cosmetics is relocating its American HQ to Murfreesboro from New Jersey, and bringing 450 jobs to their new plant there.

 

http://www.tennessean.com/article/20131113/WILSON01/311130063/2095/BUSINESS02?nclick_check=1

 

http://nashvillepost.com/news/2013/11/13/global_cosmetics_firm_bringing_450_jobs_to_the_boro

Edited by MLBrumby
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I know there's a heap of "new" things in M'boro, as I pass through there regularly.  

 

Here is just something that I really didn't have to dig around to find.  The Tennessean and Post report that Germany-based Schwan Cosmetics is relocating its American HQ to Murfreesboro from New Jersey, and bringing 450 jobs to their new plant there.

 

http://www.tennessean.com/article/20131113/WILSON01/311130063/2095/BUSINESS02?nclick_check=1

 

http://nashvillepost.com/news/2013/11/13/global_cosmetics_firm_bringing_450_jobs_to_the_boro

This is great news. I wonder where it will be located.

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  • 3 weeks later...

Definitely going to be a great project for DT Franklin. I had forgotten about this proposal and glad to see it going forward.

Does anyone know what the restaurant will be?  I think that FrankNash was knowledgeable about this project.  We were all discussing this project a while back (summer maybe?) when the owner of Amerigo joined us for our forum meet.

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