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Vertis Green Hills, 19 stories, 301 apartments, 67,000 sq. ft. retail/office, $125 million


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Ironically, I think it would actually increase the pedestrian traffic without adding considerably to vehicle traffic. Don't know how the retail there would change things from the retail that already exists there... I would think there might even be fewer cars coming and going all day like currently go in/out of the gas station there.  I can tell you that I attempted to turn right from Richard Jones onto Hillsboro on a Saturday afternoon a few weeks ago, and the light went through three cycles before I actually got to turn... cars were clogged back through the intersection.  I can tell you that a mixed use tower at that corner cannot make things any worse than they are... and I noticed that there will be a new turn lane created.  That is needed now! 

 

Plus, I wonder if these people have considered that one alternative for the developer would be apartments... and they could be huge like West End Village, which I think would be worse for homeowners there.  

 

Didn't I read that some developer actually bought most/all of the homes and lots along the residential street (I think it's a loop) that sits behind this proposal? 

Edited by MLBrumby
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the same people who complain about development and hate traffic, would complain about adding rapid mass transit that would relieve the traffic. 

Just imagine how upset they would be if Light rail was proposed to green hills!

 

But think of all the traffic that will create!!!

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Here is the link to the Green Hills Urban Design Overlay document that people are contesting  http://www.nashville.gov/Portals/0/SiteContent/Planning/docs/urban/GH_UDO_2010.pdf.  The maximum height at the Hillsboro Road build-to line is 60 feet.  The maximum height on the side roads is 48 feet.  But that part about developers having the ability to build heigher than that build-to height for setback portions appears at the end of page 49 and onto page 50 under the mixed-use incentives.  There is a specific example of someone being able to build an additional 2 floors if set back 20 feet from Hillsboro, for example.  So apparently, the 22-story tower must set back 220 feet or so from the street.  That's quite a ways, and attests to the necessity of purchasing those parcels along Richard Jones Road in order to get that much depth to the lot.

 

Just guessing, I wonder if part of the strategy of the neighbors challenging this building will be based on the actual lot size.  Presumably, the acquisitions involved multiple parcels.  So maybe the challenge would be that the developer would need to appeal to the BZA to combine the lots legally in order to make that mixed-use incentive count (sort of the opposite of a lot subdivision).  Or to require a similar rear and side setback to the Hillsboro setback so that 22-story buildings aren't pushed up against the residential buildings that happen to sit behind them.  Otherwise, Green Hills would truly become open to acquisitions of several parcels starting at Hillsboro and going back in a few lots east or west in order to build taller structures such as this one, which will be taller than Palmer Plaza.

 

From an urban standpoint, I would actually prefer that the taller buildings be placed closer to Hillsboro Road itself than say, almost to Lone Oak Road but facing Hillsboro.  Even though I personally support this proposal, it is understandable that neighbors would be caught off guard by this proposal and the seeming "loophole" that allowed it to happen without a public hearing before the planning commission.   I can foresee a push by neighbors to revise the Green Hills Urban Design Overlay to remove this mixed-use height incentive.

Edited by bwithers1
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  • 5 weeks later...

From reading the article, they still don't seem happy even at 16 stories. I'm guessing the only thing that will make them happy is this project going away completely. I'm sure if SL announced tommorrow that they were gonna build it at 10 stories they would still be complaining.

Edited by mirydi
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From reading the article, they still don't seem happy even at 16 stories. I'm guessing the only thing that will make them happy is this project going away completely. I'm sure if SL announced tommorrow that they were gonna build it at 10 stories they would still be complaining.

 

Crime. Mayhem. Walkability. All things that are wrong with this tower.

 

/sarc

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SL co*-

"We have decided to build a 2 floor stucco office park surrounded by a sea of parking, with no retail, a curb cut every 10 feet and Stop AMP signs wherever we can stick them. We will ask the city to add 4 new stop lights to accommodate traffic"

Nimby's*-

"At last! The historic character of our community is preserved!"

*disclaimer. Not actual quotes.

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Im quite sure that despite the fact that this is an upscale development, most of these people have the fear in the back of their minds that there will be a surge of dirty scary minority homeless people as a result. I wish society, in general, would stop catering to people who oppose things due to completely unfounded fears. If these people really hate this development so much, they are free to move. But of course, they won't.

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Im quite sure that despite the fact that this is an upscale development, most of these people have the fear in the back of their minds that there will be a surge of dirty scary minority homeless people as a result. I wish society, in general, would stop catering to people who oppose things due to completely unfounded fears. If these people really hate this development so much, they are free to move. But of course, they won't.

 

 Because they were there "first"

16 is still a good size building.  Although, 22 would have been fantastic!  I'm leaving the thread title at "22" just to piss them off!

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  • 2 weeks later...

Im quite sure that despite the fact that this is an upscale development, most of these people have the fear in the back of their minds that there will be a surge of dirty scary minority homeless people as a result. I wish society, in general, would stop catering to people who oppose things due to completely unfounded fears. If these people really hate this development so much, they are free to move. But of course, they won't.

I'm not so sure.  Green Hills folks tend to oppose just about any increase in density, even though that density is two $750K houses where one ranch stood before.  If minorities are purchasing those, then they are wealthy, educated minorities.  They're certainly not homeless!

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This lawsuit is a big risk for the surrounding homeowners.  If Southern Land wins, then the floodgates may open for bigger projects.  http://www.tennessean.com/article/20131119/BUSINESS/311190076/Green-Hills-neighborhood-group-file-lawsuit-over-Southern-Land-tower

Edited by MLBrumby
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This lawsuit is a big risk for the surrounding homeowners.  If Southern Land wins, then the floodgates may open for bigger projects.  http://www.tennessean.com/article/20131119/BUSINESS/311190076/Green-Hills-neighborhood-group-file-lawsuit-over-Southern-Land-tower

This complaint seems to focus on procedural issues.  Southern Land is not presently a party to the suit.  So the question is whether Planning staff can administratively approve a project that they interpret to fall within zoning parameters or whether a public hearing would always be required.   So if Metro wins this one, there would be little effect on other developments.  If Metro loses this one, there would be quite a bit of clarification on when administrative proposals are sufficient and when public hearings are required.

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This complaint seems to focus on procedural issues.  Southern Land is not presently a party to the suit.  So the question is whether Planning staff can administratively approve a project that they interpret to fall within zoning parameters or whether a public hearing would always be required.   So if Metro wins this one, there would be little effect on other developments.  If Metro loses this one, there would be quite a bit of clarification on when administrative proposals are sufficient and when public hearings are required.

 

It would seem that the practice (and legality) of planning staff approving projects would be well established. I'm not sure why a lawsuit is necessary to answer this question. 

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I don't think the GH residents will win this one, just like the numb skulls who tried to block the mosque in the Boro. Metro has has this in place for a while and I find it hard to believe a lawyer is just finding a loop hole. If everything in the UDO has been a proved by the council, then it's the planning commissions job. If the council had to take up every item for approval, they would never get anything done. It will be interesting to see if Carter Todd gets an appointment next time around because he is in favor of the project.

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  • 2 weeks later...

The Green Hills residents may not win their law suit, but I don't think they will build 22, or 16. I think it ends up being 12-14 which is fine with me. Buildings of 150 feet or taller really need to be in The Gulch, Midtown, Downtown, Sobro, and the CBD where density is needed, and surface lots are plenty. I wrote Southern Land several times, and one of the representatives told WW they appreciated my comments and concerns. Mine were civl and professional. I know many of these residents were reactionary and verbally abusive and not constructive.

 

In that respect, I hope they lose their case. However, this is not like the case with the mosque in Murfreesboro. That was based in religious and racial bigotry. This is based on residents resisting change, and their fear that their once suburban homes are now in the urban district and that scares the hell out of them.

 

There is a delicate balance, but when 22 story 240 foot towers are built 6 miles from the CBD, that is just another surface lot in downtown that does not get filled, and a street that is not activated.

 

I would have preferred Elliston 23 built in Green Hills, and the 22 story 240 foot tower built on Elliston Place.

 

I personally do not like Green Hills, and frankly many of the patrons of the mall are self centered, rude, and crass. I have had people downright offensive to me while I was looking for a parking space. I prefer the local hipster shops on the East Side, not the large chains. I don't like shopping malls. I prefer supporting local business.

 

In any case, the market will make the decision. 

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Now now John... don't think Green Hills has a monopoly on jerks.  I just don't like GH because it's difficult to navigate.  Maybe most others are like me, and when they have to go to GH, they're tired and bothered when they reach their destination.  Any rudeness is just natural.  Then again, that doesn't seem to be keeping many people away.  Like Yogi said... "Nobody goes there anymore... it's always too crowded." 

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Now now John... don't think Green Hills has a monopoly on jerks.  I just don't like GH because it's difficult to navigate.  Maybe most others are like me, and when they have to go to GH, they're tired and bothered when they reach their destination.  Any rudeness is just natural.  Then again, that doesn't seem to be keeping many people away.  Like Yogi said... "Nobody goes there anymore... it's always too crowded." 

True ML, not everyone are "jerks", but my recent experiences have not been pleasant. Hope to see you at a meet sometime!

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  • 4 weeks later...

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