1100 S. Main St Apartments (Pendleton Street Baptist Church)

[ausrutherford]

14 hours ago, Spartan said:

The problem with these types of apartment buildings is not that they lack retail, but that they tend to lack active ground floor uses. Here in Charlotte the problem is exactly that. All of the apartment buildings (and there are quite a few) that are going up now have 2-3 floors of parking. The slightly better ones are "texas donut" style, meaning that the parking structure is surrounded by the apartments. Then the problem becomes that the units don't have entrances onto the street. The "active street front" makes or breaks the urban environment, not presence of retail. I don't know this part of Greenville that well, so I don't know if retail is appropriate here. What I can say is that here in Charlotte, the apartments that are going up are very low quality density for density's sake. They contribute nothing to the built environment and we're stuck with them for the foreseeable future. I hope that Greenville is able to get them to do something better.

As said, the project does have individual entrances on street level, however, retail should have been made.

Retail is now required due to this project's lack of it.

[vicupstate]

Retail is required in this project on the two Main Street corners. One is just the leasing office though. 

[gman430]

Bid date is now April 21st. Construction slated to start in late May. YPS who is also building Link, Main @ Stone, and 121 Rhett will be the general contractor. 

Edited April 2, 2016 by gman430

[gvegas12]

We are approaching late May and all is quiet. Any updates gman? Others?

I wouldn't be surprised if the developer walks, which would be great for downtown and the church. Downtown could get a true mixed-use project and the church could get the highest value for their land with an open sales process.

Relating to the market overall, it looks like multi-family may have peaked downtown:

- Rental rates are coming down and substantial free rent is being offered at multiple downtown apartment buildings

- Vacancy rates are up

- Over 1,000 units are currently under construction downtown, all yet to be delivered

- Construction prices are at an all-time high

How can this project (or any of the others yet to break ground) work?

[cabelagent]

1 hour ago, gvegas12 said:

We are approaching late May and all is quiet. Any updates gman? Others?

I wouldn't be surprised if the developer walks, which would be great for downtown and the church. Downtown could get a true mixed-use project and the church could get the highest value for their land with an open sales process.

Relating to the market overall, it looks like multi-family may have peaked downtown:

- Rental rates are coming down and substantial free rent is being offered at multiple downtown apartment buildings

- Vacancy rates are up

- Over 1,000 units are currently under construction downtown, all yet to be delivered

- Construction prices are at an all-time high

How can this project (or any of the others yet to break ground) work?

Curious.....what are your sources for these stats?

[vicupstate]

Only one complex DT is offering free rent on Apartments.com, that being the Link, which is just starting to write leases.   

[gvegas12]

 

6 minutes ago, vicupstate said:

Only one complex DT is offering free rent on Apartments.com, that being the Link, which is just starting to write leases.   

See my other post for a link to the 400 Rhett page on apartments.com, that offers free rent.

 

1 hour ago, cabelagent said:

Curious.....what are your sources for these stats?

Rental rates down and vacancy being up are nearly 100% correlated (apartments being on short term leases allows for nearly perfect supply/demand economics). 400 Rhett (the closest apartments to 1100 S Main) has been offering free rent until July 4th for quite some time (http://www.apartments.com/400-rhett-greenville-sc/cvktlpd/) If you call other complexes, you will hear all kinds of deals (free TV's, waived application fees, etc.).

There are roughly 1,000 units between Fountains, the Link, and District West, not to mention the new complex that just broke ground in front of the Kroc Center.

Ask anyone in the industry about the rise in construction prices and you'll hear the same things. Every sub-contractor is busy and skilled labor is harder and harder to find. Some good data can be found here: http://www.turnerconstruction.com/cost-index

Edited May 18, 2016 by gvegas12

[gman430]

I highly doubt the developer of the church property is going to walk as bids have already gone out for the project. Oh and 400 Rhett has only 10 units out of 150 available for lease at the present time. Apartment communities offering one month of free rent is nothing new and doesn't mean demand is down. For example, I got the first month free at SouthRidge when I moved in last October.

 

Edited May 18, 2016 by gman430

[motonenterprises]

1 month free rent has been going on for as long as I can remember. Definitely since I've been in business. Not uncommon. The rental market is still tight as is the housing market.

[vicupstate]

As far as this project, it won't be ready for occupancy for 18 months, so the market may be very different by then anyway, whether for better or worse.  

[gvegascple]

When I originally had thought of this project, other than being really bummed that we would lose an iconic church downtown, I thought, "wow, it makes great business sense. Sell a property that is becoming too expensive to maintain, at a super high premium, one that would line your coffers and allow you to continue supporting your community/congregation much much longer".  Now I am starting to think that for that concept to work, the church would have to relocate into a much less expensive (read: far away) area.  So if the church there is there to support that community, moving really far away to rebuild isn't going to do that.  It sounds more like someone's money play or at the very least, not something that will benefit that congregation and screw us out of a beautiful church downtown that provided historic church architecture.  So now I am back to my original, "what a bummer we are losing an iconic church downtown."  Hate to suggest forced zoning, but to prevent other churches from "cashing" in and letting money hungry developers bulldoze any more, maybe a provision that says churches have to stay churches if dating back a certain number of years or showing enough architectural relevance to certain time periods to merit protection/preservation.  We have a ton of apt buildings right now, kind of wish this one stayed a church.

Edited May 18, 2016 by gvegascple

[GvilleSC]

The congregation is historic, but they've long since demolished any building with true historical significance on their property (except for maybe the building at Perry and Rhett, which is in complete disrepair). Most other churches downtown have maintained their historic structures and thus would likely be protected from demolition.

[vicupstate]

The church is keeping 1.3 acres of the site where they will rebuild. So they won't  be moving away, if things go according to plan. They will and are conducting services elsewhere while all the construction is going on, which obviously will be quite awhile.

I agree that it is a shame that the building will be torn down.  I really don't see why they didn't keep the sanctuary and a sufficient amount of parking and then sell the rest.  The proceeds from the sale could have covered renovation costs for the sanctuary and then some.   There is fellowship hall and classroom space in the basement of the sanctuary that should serve their needs for that.  

Unfortunately, I think the dye is probably cast on this, so I would expect to see it happen as announced.

 

The church offered to discuss with the city the possibility to reserve some of the land for a city garage. The city should have taken them up on that.  The day will come when they will wish they had. 

[chuckyvt]

400 Rhett is offering one month free rent, right after they jacked up their rates pricing more people out of the market.  With the added apartment supply coming online, I hope we do see prices trend down somewhat.  It would be a positive for Downtown   

[ausrutherford]

36 minutes ago, vicupstate said:

The church is keeping 1.3 acres of the site where they will rebuild. So they won't  be moving away, if things go according to plan. They will and are conducting services elsewhere while all the construction is going on, which obviously will be quite awhile.

I agree that it is a shame that the building will be torn down.  I really don't see why they didn't keep the sanctuary and a sufficient amount of parking and then sell the rest.  The proceeds from the sale could have covered renovation costs for the sanctuary and then some.   There is fellowship hall and classroom space in the basement of the sanctuary that should serve their needs for that.  

Unfortunately, I think the dye is probably cast on this, so I would expect to see it happen as announced.

 

The church offered to discuss with the city the possibility to reserve some of the land for a city garage. The city should have taken them up on that.  The day will come when they will wish they had. 

The problem with a city garage there is that the city only wants to build garages that will fill up with every daily use. Typically, you need a anchor hotel, business, etc. The Drive wouldn't do that on a daily basis. 

[gvegas12]

Someone building apartments is going to get caught with their hand in the cookie jar. There are not enough new jobs to support all of these apartments. Millennials can't afford the high rents (especially the rents proposed for this site) and there is only a limited supply of empty nesters and retirees moving downtown. Ultimately the music will stop and there will be a correction. It happens every cycle and it will happen here. I could be wrong about which project takes it on the chin, but there is no doubt that someone will.

[vicupstate]

I think the 'pain' wouldn't necessarily be isolated to one project. It would be shared across the full spectrum of DT complexes as they all target the same market and have the same level of amenities and essentially the same date of completion.   

 If all these apartments were going up in the suburbs, no one would even question it.  To a significant degree, there has simply been a shift in consumer preferences from the burbs to the urban core.  

 

[sc smitty]

I've heard from someone that has been inside just this week that the contents of the building are currently being cleaned out and sold off.

[vicupstate]

Closing occurred last night. 

Asbestos testing or abatement will be first step.  

 

[btoy]

I watched fireworks from the church on July 4th and hand rails, light fixtures and exterior slate tile had already been removed from the front of the building.

[gvegas12]

I am still negative on the feasibility of this project and think it's bad for downtown, but I really hope this developer has enough sense to deconsecrate the church. Watching that steeple come down is going to stir up a lot of emotion, so Woodfield would be smart to show some respect to the worship that has taken place since the church was built in 1938. 

[gman430]

 

Edited July 21, 2016 by gman430

[gman430]

Edited August 7, 2016 by gman430

[ausrutherford]

Depressing....

[NBNY2GRNVL]

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