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Dimensional Place (Common Market South End site)


Spartan

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1 hour ago, Cadi40 said:

Shorter buildings for now, Eventually SouthEnd will be an extension of Uptown.

I know you want height in southend, but there's just so many vacant lots and opportunity within the loop that I prefer anything taller than these projects stay Uptown and then let the skyline organically extend into southend as the density increases. 

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I feel like Southend will begin to gain more weight and more density right along with continued development in uptown along the same lines as what has already happened. Uptown gets true skyscrapers and Southend gets midrises and solid high-rises. Maybe a skyscraper at some point.

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11 hours ago, CharlotteWkndBuzz said:

I know you want height in southend, but there's just so many vacant lots and opportunity within the loop that I prefer anything taller than these projects stay Uptown and then let the skyline organically extend into southend as the density increases. 

Agreed, I want height, But It still needs time. Nothing over 300’ in SouthEnd for the foreseeable future I’d say. I’d prefer taller projects to occupy empty lots in Uptown for now. 

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  • 2 weeks later...

As much as I dislike this building, I have to give them credit for accurately depicting the finished product in the renderings. The mirrored glass looks as-advertised, and the massing looks neat coming down Tryon Street, especial with Railyard looking overhead.

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40 minutes ago, Spartan said:

As much as I dislike this building, I have to give them credit for accurately depicting the finished product in the renderings. The mirrored glass looks as-advertised, and the massing looks neat coming down Tryon Street, especial with Railyard looking overhead.

I like unpopular opinions (I'm contrarian by nature).  I think you are the only person I can recall who dislikes this building.  I love it but I respect your opinion.  What do you so dislike about the design?  

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I'm not the only person who dislikes it, but I'm definitely in the minority.

  1. I am unimpressed by shiny things.
  2. I don't appreciate the stated motive/purpose behind the site selection process.
  3. I don't like the destruction of historic buildings that have value and contribute to the built environment. This is an issue I have across Charlotte, not just this site. In this case, Camden Rd had a nice "starting" area at Tryon with a few old buildings of similar age and scale that made for a nice traditional main street type of feel (like a very small NoDa), and it added richness and variety to an area dominated by apartment boxes of various scales and mid-century light industrial buildings. Collectively, they created a nice space. Now that this row has been torn down, I see no point in keeping the rest because they lack context, and my prediction is that over time, they'll probably all turn over to new shiny boxes.
  4. I don't care for modern/contemporary architecture in general. I think it frequently offers a bad street presence, has lots of blank walls, and does little to contribute to the built environment from a walkability standpoint. 
  5. The street level of all buildings is what defines the experience in your city (this a fact, not an opinion), and you can look at pretty much every new building in Charlotte in the past decade point to where it fails in some way.  This building isn't complete yet, so I'll reserve my final opinion until I see the end result of this work, but I'm skeptical about how it will turn out. Even if the urban design principles are solid (and they may very well be), the new public spaces and even interior retail spaces, always feel sterile and bland to me, even if the restaurant space (or whatever) is done well. 

I will say, however, that for a contemporary/modernist pieces of architecture, this building appears to be one of the better  ones.

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16 hours ago, Spartan said:

I'm not the only person who dislikes it, but I'm definitely in the minority.

  1. I am unimpressed by shiny things.
  2. I don't appreciate the stated motive/purpose behind the site selection process.
  3. I don't like the destruction of historic buildings that have value and contribute to the built environment. This is an issue I have across Charlotte, not just this site. In this case, Camden Rd had a nice "starting" area at Tryon with a few old buildings of similar age and scale that made for a nice traditional main street type of feel (like a very small NoDa), and it added richness and variety to an area dominated by apartment boxes of various scales and mid-century light industrial buildings. Collectively, they created a nice space. Now that this row has been torn down, I see no point in keeping the rest because they lack context, and my prediction is that over time, they'll probably all turn over to new shiny boxes.
  4. I don't care for modern/contemporary architecture in general. I think it frequently offers a bad street presence, has lots of blank walls, and does little to contribute to the built environment from a walkability standpoint. 
  5. The street level of all buildings is what defines the experience in your city (this a fact, not an opinion), and you can look at pretty much every new building in Charlotte in the past decade point to where it fails in some way.  This building isn't complete yet, so I'll reserve my final opinion until I see the end result of this work, but I'm skeptical about how it will turn out. Even if the urban design principles are solid (and they may very well be), the new public spaces and even interior retail spaces, always feel sterile and bland to me, even if the restaurant space (or whatever) is done well. 

I will say, however, that for a contemporary/modernist pieces of architecture, this building appears to be one of the better  ones.

^This.  So much of this^!!!

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16 hours ago, Spartan said:

I'm not the only person who dislikes it, but I'm definitely in the minority.

  1. I am unimpressed by shiny things.
  2. I don't appreciate the stated motive/purpose behind the site selection process.
  3. I don't like the destruction of historic buildings that have value and contribute to the built environment. This is an issue I have across Charlotte, not just this site. In this case, Camden Rd had a nice "starting" area at Tryon with a few old buildings of similar age and scale that made for a nice traditional main street type of feel (like a very small NoDa), and it added richness and variety to an area dominated by apartment boxes of various scales and mid-century light industrial buildings. Collectively, they created a nice space. Now that this row has been torn down, I see no point in keeping the rest because they lack context, and my prediction is that over time, they'll probably all turn over to new shiny boxes.
  4. I don't care for modern/contemporary architecture in general. I think it frequently offers a bad street presence, has lots of blank walls, and does little to contribute to the built environment from a walkability standpoint. 
  5. The street level of all buildings is what defines the experience in your city (this a fact, not an opinion), and you can look at pretty much every new building in Charlotte in the past decade point to where it fails in some way.  This building isn't complete yet, so I'll reserve my final opinion until I see the end result of this work, but I'm skeptical about how it will turn out. Even if the urban design principles are solid (and they may very well be), the new public spaces and even interior retail spaces, always feel sterile and bland to me, even if the restaurant space (or whatever) is done well. 

I will say, however, that for a contemporary/modernist pieces of architecture, this building appears to be one of the better  ones.

1. Not just shiny, material choices are great. 

2. Site has been on the market for YEARS, it was an inevitability that it was selected by someone institutional eventually. 

3. Agreed, those buildings easily could have been saved. Theres been way more difficult projects in DC in the past few years that have interwoven modern mid/high rises into historical store fronts. 

4. They have definitely limited the amount of blank walls, and are doing a hell of a job making the parking deck. 

5. We shall see on this one. I don't love the store front glass so far, I hope they add on awnings and other features to sexy it all up a bit more.

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I realize this was  inevitable, and, alas, this is Charlotte where nothing is sacred except oak trees (when it's convenient).  I've said my peace about the past. If you've read this forum before you know where I stand and my perspective hasn't changed.

 

4 hours ago, ricky_davis_fan_21 said:

1. Not just shiny, material choices are great. 

2. Site has been on the market for YEARS, it was an inevitability that it was selected by someone institutional eventually. 

3. Agreed, those buildings easily could have been saved. Theres been way more difficult projects in DC in the past few years that have interwoven modern mid/high rises into historical store fronts. 

4. They have definitely limited the amount of blank walls, and are doing a hell of a job making the parking deck. 

5. We shall see on this one. I don't love the store front glass so far, I hope they add on awnings and other features to sexy it all up a bit more.

What is "good" from an aesthetics standpoint is all highly subjective, and what is good from an urban design standpoint is much less so. I don't have a good sense of what the ground floor final product will look like, but in general the retail space and general density increase is good. I'm looking forward to the completion of the project so we can see what we're going to have to live with (be it good or bad). Aesthetically, the mirrored glass does look neat when you're travelling down South Tryon Street, so there's that.

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3 minutes ago, Spartan said:

I realize this was  inevitable, and, alas, this is Charlotte where nothing is sacred except oak trees (when it's convenient).  I've said my peace about the past. If you've read this forum before you know where I stand and my perspective hasn't changed.

 

What is "good" from an aesthetics standpoint is all highly subjective, and what is good from an urban design standpoint is much less so. I don't have a good sense of what the ground floor final product will look like, but in general the retail space and general density increase is good. I'm looking forward to the completion of the project so we can see what we're going to have to live with (be it good or bad). Aesthetically, the mirrored glass does look neat when you're travelling down South Tryon Street, so there's that.

FWIW, I think several of your points are valid.  Specifically, it is unfortunate that the prior buildings couldn't be saved and this project couldn't be built elsewhere in the same area.  That said, relative to other projects in Charlotte, this one stands out as better than most (all?).  That's grading on a curve I acknowledge...

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