mpchicago

Warner Tower - Lyon and Ottawa

277 posts in this topic

On November 19, 2015 at 7:50:27 PM, MJLO said:

The retail space at the 616 project on michigan looks totally big enough to handle some kind of grocery store.

Funny you say that...I drove by that on Thursday night, thought the exact same thing and saw your post when I got home.  It's a huge space with high ceiling...I do wonder what they are envisioning there.  

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The renderings for this project are very impressive.   The office building looks a little bit like the JW Mariott.  Residential is more typical Orion. The grocery store is 10,000 SF.   Parking is screened.   

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8 minutes ago, urbanland said:

The renderings for this project are very impressive.   The office building looks a little bit like the JW Mariott.  Residential is more typical Orion. The grocery store is 10,000 SF.   Parking is screened.   

See. That's what I said. :) Can you share?

http://www.urbanplanet.org/forums/topic/116267-predictions-for-the-coming-year/?do=findComment&comment=1389707

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What's with all the "I've seen the renderings, but I can't or I'm not going to post" <_<

Is it just me or does this seem like an odd place for a downtown grocery store?  Right smack in the middle of the CBD?  Seems like closer to Fulton makes more sense? I don't know, but if they can pull off adding a grocery downtown (the holy grail for many) I gotta give them credit.  

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51 minutes ago, mpchicago said:

What's with all the "I've seen the renderings, but I can't or I'm not going to post" <_<

Is it just me or does this seem like an odd place for a downtown grocery store?  Right smack in the middle of the CBD?  Seems like closer to Fulton makes more sense? I don't know, but if they can pull off adding a grocery downtown (the holy grail for many) I gotta give them credit.  

Yes and no.  You've got the Waters Building Apts Across the street.  The Morton and all the residential on Monroe Center a Block away.  The Rowe is on the other side of the the city/county complex, and you're a couple blocks walk down the hill from the heart of HH.  It's about .5miles in each direction from quite a few people.  That said yeah I wonder how well something would actually do there.   Either way it's up for a grocer/market operator to decide to do business in a spot like that, as all Orion can do is suggest that it's "for a grocery store".

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I've heard talk of a Martha's Vineyard in the Commerce/Fulton area. I would guess that Orion would develop this with one of the urban-format Target stores in mind. Just an educated guess though. 

Edited by GRBorn

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24 minutes ago, urbanland said:

Sorry, I don't have renderings.  Just passing along what I've seen.   

Either way, thanks for the description. Sounds like it'll be a great addition. Now I have to patiently wait for the public release.:)

joe

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23 hours ago, GRBorn said:

I've heard talk of a Martha's Vineyard in the Commerce/Fulton area. I would guess that Orion would develop this with one of the urban-format Target stores in mind. Just an educated guess though. 

A Martha's Vineyard near Commerce/Fulton? How would that be? It's the police station, UICA and San Chez on that corner. Unless San Chez gave up half that space. 

Maybe 38 Commerce's ground floor space that has gone unleased so far? 

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I could see San Chez moving out of the half that used to be breakfast/lunch (and before that, Mezza). They have moved breakfast into the main restaurant and it seems to be very under-utilized space. I'd love to see the space used more actively (I work in the building). 

The issue with 38 is that the open space also has rooftop access. I'm sure they want a premium for that space though I'm kind of surprised they haven't tried splitting the space up a bit. Retail has not worked out at 38 and is mostly ground floor office space (except Two Beards, which also seems like it's having a hard time getting traction - though maybe takeout is a big part of their business). 

Joe

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Perhaps 43 Fulton?  Halfway between Fulton/Commerce and Fulton/Ionia, has a history of things not lasting long in its space.

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On 12/23/2015 at 2:44 PM, GRDadof3 said:

A Martha's Vineyard near Commerce/Fulton? How would that be? It's the police station, UICA and San Chez on that corner. Unless San Chez gave up half that space. 

Maybe 38 Commerce's ground floor space that has gone unleased so far? 

Let me rephrase: A Martha's Vineyard-type store. And yes, the 38 Commerce ground floor space is the space I've heard mentioned. 

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2 hours ago, GRBorn said:

Let me rephrase: A Martha's Vineyard-type store. And yes, the 38 Commerce ground floor space is the space I've heard mentioned. 

Seems like a good spot for a store like that. 

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Looks like 160 ft for the residential, 170 for the office portion. Talk about setting the bar low. 

 

26029157552_84a0fdc1d1_k.jpg

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1 hour ago, GRDadof3 said:

Looks like 160 ft for the residential, 170 for the office portion. Talk about setting the bar low. 

 

26029157552_84a0fdc1d1_k.jpg

That's about the height of 99 Monroe, right? :(

That's the typical GR height, I guess. I really thought these would be bigger. Sure hope they at least look nice. 

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And im sure theyll get value engineered to the standard 12 stories... i bet they look like arena place. I can just see it..

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I guess I'm wondering what y'all are looking for? Sure, it'd be great if ABC Mega Corporation moved downtown and built a 50 story building, but does anyone honestly think that is going to happen? I'm very happy with all of this infill. Sure it'd be nice to have something bigger popup, but time and time again I've said that I'm more concerned about what's happening at the street level.

I'd rather have a lot of smaller infill with very little setbacks than one 50 story fortress. 

Move been to way too many cities with large buildings that have ZERO street life. Entire cities that feel like a large vertical suburban office complex  No thanks  

Can't wait to see the renderings. 

Joe

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....or just stack the residential on top of the office and have a nice 28 floor, 330 ft tower...

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1 hour ago, joeDowntown said:

I guess I'm wondering what y'all are looking for? Sure, it'd be great if ABC Mega Corporation moved downtown and built a 50 story building, but does anyone honestly think that is going to happen? I'm very happy with all of this infill. Sure it'd be nice to have something bigger popup, but time and time again I've said that I'm more concerned about what's happening at the street level.

I'd rather have a lot of smaller infill with very little setbacks than one 50 story fortress. 

Move been to way too many cities with large buildings that have ZERO street life. Entire cities that feel like a large vertical suburban office complex  No thanks  

Can't wait to see the renderings. 

Joe

Yeah. It's a good quality infill.

GR needs to just fill in these leftover parking lots from urban renewal. They have been around for almost 60 years, and there are still many embarrassing examples in the central city.

 

As long as the ground floor has a quality tenant that brings some activity to the area through most of the day, then not having a tall building is a good trade-off.

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1 hour ago, joeDowntown said:

. . . Entire cities that feel like a large vertical suburban office complex  No thanks  

 

 

39 minutes ago, arcturus said:

Well, that’s pretty neat but it isn’t what I think of when I think of a “vertical suburban office complex.”  It's missing the acres of parking and/or low rise parking ramps.

The reason this intersection in downtown Toronto works vertically is because there is a subway running under University, the cross street, and it’s just a couple of blocks from Toronto Union Station which has gobs of commuter trains all day.  Without the subway and trains, you’d need parking and with parking you’d end up with something like the “vertical suburban office complex” look of Bridgewater Place which looks nice but doesn’t work too well as far as street life is concerned.

When Grand Rapids gets a more intense transit system, developers can come around and start tearing down those twelve story buildings and replace them with buildings more vertical.      

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More like Tampa, or like GR north of Lyon.  A bunch of towers with no cohesion.

But I think we could easily do better with some height in higher profile places without creating a disjointed streetscape.  If the whole city gets filled up with infill, where will the tall buildings go when they're demanded?

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13 hours ago, Floyd_Z said:

....or just stack the residential on top of the office and have a nice 28 floor, 330 ft tower...

Boom! 

I actually think they can go 5 more floors on the residential, at least. This building should have a lifespan of 50+ years. Why limit it's potential now in perpetuity? 

Unless there are limitations with parking on the site...

 

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Here's a little more closeup of the retail level (ground floor). Joe's right in that regard. It will be interesting to see how that curved glass wall is executed. Could be pretty cool. 

If you click on it and then go to the bottom left, you can go to the Full Size image. 

26132824015_d8e4725f25_o.jpg

 

One of my favorite office buildings I've ever photographed is this one in DC. Speaks classic with modern touches. I'd take this at that corner any day. Taller too. :)

2438063966_c8dfd27434_o.jpg

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It would be nice having taller buildings toward the center of downtown. Smaller buildings just get blocked behind the big three (Amway, Marriott and Plaza Towers). The skyline would really improve with more density behind the three.

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