Atherton Mill Redevelopment

[archiham04]

Love the sound of more retail.  Little bummed out about the Atherton Market going, but it looks like it will come back in one of the retail spaces, so that's cool.  Was a little worried there for a second... the only places I go to regularly in South End are Common Market, Food Truck Friday, Atherton Market / Not Just Coffee, and Luna's Living Kitchen. For a moment there I thought they were getting rid of every single place I go to in South End.

 

Anyway, cool project.  Looking forward to this.

So as everyone gushes over this proposal (Eden's mixed Use), I am wondering if anyone is thinking about the fact that the majority of the retail is either facing South Blvd, or the bottom level of a parking deck.  Neither one is a great place to be.  I have been ranting on this forum about the pedestrian experience on South Blvd for years only to be dismissed by folks who are convinced that South must continue to be widened and carry even more cars.  The retail open into parking deck experience i am sure has a great solution somewhere, but Charlotte hasn't seen one yet.

[Guest]

So as everyone gushes over this proposal (Eden's mixed Use), I am wondering if anyone is thinking about the fact that the majority of the retail is either facing South Blvd, or the bottom level of a parking deck.  Neither one is a great place to be.  I have been ranting on this forum about the pedestrian experience on South Blvd for years only to be dismissed by folks who are convinced that South must continue to be widened and carry even more cars.  The retail open into parking deck experience i am sure has a great solution somewhere, but Charlotte hasn't seen one yet.

Its not a whole lot different from Met Midtown, the bulk of the retail square footage is accessible only from parking deck. I think it will do very very well.

[SgtCampsalot]

If the South Blvd-facing retail  truly abuts the street, that's fine with me. Anything to get rid of the void of walking in front of that lot.

Now, the retail nestled in the parking garages, that's abhorrent. Is that really the case? Like, Trader Joe';s could easily have a pedestrian entrance on the corner, but they treat it like a regional shopping mall.

[Guest]

If the South Blvd-facing retail  truly abuts the street, that's fine with me. Anything to get rid of the void of walking in front of that lot.

Now, the retail nestled in the parking garages, that's abhorrent. Is that really the case? Like, Trader Joe';s could easily have a pedestrian entrance on the corner, but they treat it like a regional shopping mall.

I'd like to think people have learned from Met Midtown for there not to be entrances on South Blvd. I couldn't imagine that there wouldn't be entrances at both places. Here's a higher res version of the retail portion. Its truly gorgeous. Interestingly the 9,000 sq foot part doesn't have direct access to the retail section. 

Edited October 12, 2015 by Guest

[SgtCampsalot]

Doesn't it behoove South Blvd as a whole to have more entrances (whether it's retail or residential) facing the street? It's better than just walls, no?

I'm actually having trouble deciphering that map as it pertains to stuff like that.

[Guest]

Doesn't it behoove South Blvd as a whole to have more entrances (whether it's retail or residential) facing the street? It's better than just walls, no?

I'm actually having trouble deciphering that map as it pertains to stuff like that.

I think the breaks in lines facing certain directs don't necessarily mean an opening, otherwise there's be no way in to a number of businesses. I'm sure here will be entrances facing all ways. We will not have a replay of Kings Drive

[15895]

I wish so badly there was a planted Median between the north and southbound lanes of South Blvd with big pedestrian islands at each intersection (there are too many great amenities for pedestrians and it will help connect Dilworth to SouthEnd.

[southslider]

^There is a proposed signal at McDonald Ave.

[archiham04]

I do not see how this would not be a repeat of Kings Dr.  South is a terrible pedestrian "stroad" built for cars and moving more so in that direction with every added turn lane... just like Kings Dr.  I can only hope that the parking deck/entrance is treated with some sort of architectural care.  especially since it will also loom heavily over the historic mill on the West side.

I think the breaks in lines facing certain directs don't necessarily mean an opening, otherwise there's be no way in to a number of businesses. I'm sure here will be entrances facing all ways. We will not have a replay of Kings Dr

Edited October 13, 2015 by archiham04
incomplete

[archiham04]

I don't think this upper floor plan has been posted to our forum yet. URL pulled from Charlotte Agenda

[archiham04]

This has probably been covered, but that is a solid Rail Trail link there.

[Spartan]

So as everyone gushes over this proposal (Eden's mixed Use), I am wondering if anyone is thinking about the fact that the majority of the retail is either facing South Blvd, or the bottom level of a parking deck.  Neither one is a great place to be.  I have been ranting on this forum about the pedestrian experience on South Blvd for years only to be dismissed by folks who are convinced that South must continue to be widened and carry even more cars.  The retail open into parking deck experience i am sure has a great solution somewhere, but Charlotte hasn't seen one yet.

I wish so badly there was a planted Median between the north and southbound lanes of South Blvd with big pedestrian islands at each intersection (there are too many great amenities for pedestrians and it will help connect Dilworth to SouthEnd.

In response to these two posts: I can assure you that South Blvd will never be widened to add lanes, at least north of Woodlawn. It will be widened in places to allow for turning lanes. Case in point - Given it's scale, the proposal for Atherton will require a signal, and the only way to get a signal will be to widen the street to allow for a left turn lane into the site. The signal will also make it easier for peds to get across the street.

I just hope the retail actually fronts South Blvd - I'm assuming it will. South sucks today because the buildings aren't set up for people. If it's designed right, South can be a great place for peds (see the Southborough retail (Noodle place, wine car, etc) as an example of positive transformation.

[archiham04]

My main point is not that this project is bad... it is just not the "mini birkdale" that it has been described as.  The ground level site plan kind of gives the impression that there are surface lots (and sunlight) behind the street fronting buildings... which would, very much, resemble a pleasant birkdale/phillips place-like strip.  But when you visulize the development with the additional second floor plan, and cavernous structured parking, the reality is much different ( traffic clogged carbon monoxide tunnel).  As for success if fronting on South Blvd... I am having a real hard time envisioning a retail stroll district on a street that is 60 feet wide and 5 lanes...

[atlrvr]

This is probably true.....there are plenty that are successful, but most have a large portion of the center lane as a mini-linear Park.

Mass Ave (in Boston South End), Bowery in LES Manhattan, and 14th St in East End, DC are all this basic size, and do ok, but I do agree that a hard/soft scaped median works much better (Broadway in UWS  NY, and Washington St in Miami Beach are both really nice examples)

[archiham04]

Okay... so this is where we can bring something to the table.  let's post examples of good 5 lane retail streets and force CDOT's hand.  The madness has to stop. CDOT does not have a solution for a decent 5 lane cross section.  South Blvd needs it now!

mass ave:

link 1

link 2

 

Edited October 22, 2015 by archiham04
screwed up the links

[rjp212]

Hey RDF, you had mentioned on SSC that JCrew, Patagonia, Urban Outfitters and Banana Republic had signed on for the Atherton Mill Redevelopment.  Share the love with us UPers and put the info here too.  

[CLTProductions]

8 minutes ago, rjp212 said:

Hey RDF, you had mentioned on SSC that JCrew, Patagonia, Urban Outfitters and Banana Republic had signed on for the Atherton Mill Redevelopment.  Share the love with us UPers and put the info here too.  

No Banana Republic or Urban, those aren't confirmed but J.Crew and Patagonia are ready to roll. Banana and Urban just make sense

[Guest]

58 minutes ago, rjp212 said:

Hey RDF, you had mentioned on SSC that JCrew, Patagonia, Urban Outfitters and Banana Republic had signed on for the Atherton Mill Redevelopment.  Share the love with us UPers and put the info here too.  

I heard from a colleague who works as a buyer at the Urban HQ in Philly who said they are in active talks to open a SouthEnd Store. The only location that works is Atherton Mill. Banana is Speculation. 

Edited November 19, 2015 by Guest

[Deleted.]

1 hour ago, ricky_davis_fan_21 said:

I heard from a colleague who works as a buyer at the Urban HQ in Philly who said they are in active talks to open a SouthEnd Store. The only location that works is Atherton Mill. Banana is Speculation. 

It's shame Atherton Market, the part with not just coffee, is being replaced with stores you find at malls around the country. 

Edited November 19, 2015 by Piedmont767
Spelling

[rjp212]

14 minutes ago, Piedmont767 said:

It's shame Atherthon Market, the part with nor just coffee, is being replaced with stores you find at malls around the country. 

I believe the Market will be just relocating into one of the newer spaces.

[Prodev]

The market isn't going away. It's within the light rail easement area, so if they got rid of it, they couldn't replace it with anything but rail trail and landscaping. 

[nonillogical]

Wow I like the looks of that, and I love how the rail trail will curve up to leave the market building in tact and go between it and the new building. 

[asthasr]

That is a nice plan.

[dcharlotte]

Bump up the building in the middle and on the ends and use a different material and this would be a killer project. I like the rendering as it stands now. 

[Deleted.]

With the market staying, this project is huge and transformative for South End. When I've visited, Atherton Market wasn't busy but with this development hopefully it will improve flow to the market and maybe entice more businesses to have a stall. 

It would be better if there could be a LRT stop right next to Atherton, but with East/West Blvd. being quite close I guess it doesn't matter. But out of curiosity, could CATS build a station to Atherton or would it be too close to East/West? 

EDIT- I like the idea of having a station behind Sycamore Brewery, very close to Atherton, not that close to East/West but very close to one of my favorite breweries in CLT.

EDIT2- Thanks SouthEndCLT811 for your post. I just assumed it was to show that the Blue Line runs there. I would love to see another station near Atherton, is there a possibility we could actually see a new station?  

Edited November 20, 2015 by Piedmont767