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Atherton Mill Redevelopment


archiham04

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2 hours ago, KJHburg said:

^^^^ Look at @ricky_davis_fan_21 rendering above at the L shaped building across the tracks that is the very tight spot Portman wants to build an office tower.   

image.thumb.png.9019f9084275b8a8b3687417c97df41c.png

my idea for it. Don't judge too hard, just a 20 min photoshop

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  • 3 weeks later...
53 minutes ago, KJHburg said:

IMG_8430.JPG

The retail is covering the garage a lot better than I thought it would, which is great to see.   I still wish they had done red brick all the way to the top on this thing.  The top floor being aluminum just sort of looks strange and out of place to me.  

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1 hour ago, CTiger said:

The retail is covering the garage a lot better than I thought it would, which is great to see.   I still wish they had done red brick all the way to the top on this thing.  The top floor being aluminum just sort of looks strange and out of place to me.  

This deal still makes me weep. How in the world was the city OK with putting a massive deck like that on South Blvd??

 

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1 hour ago, lancer22 said:

This deal still makes me weep. How in the world was the city OK with putting a massive deck like that on South Blvd??

 

What's the alternative?  Surface parking taking  5x the footprint of the parking deck?  Or limit the parking space count, thereby forcing a reduction in the project's scale?

There's a built-in irony to commuter rail, in this case the Blue Line.  The rail system encourages higher density, but higher density requires more parking.

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7 minutes ago, southernnorthcarolina said:

There's a built-in irony to commuter rail, in this case the Blue Line.  The rail system encourages higher density, but higher density requires more parking.

Different zoning would also work (instead of lots of parking).

Nobody avoids Michigan ave shopping or Wrigley Field because the parking sucks.

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33 minutes ago, kermit said:

Different zoning would also work (instead of lots of parking).

Nobody avoids Michigan ave shopping or Wrigley Field because the parking sucks.

Well, yes, different zoning -- as in less density -- would decrease the amount of parking needed.  But would that not be counter to the goal of increased density along the rail line?

Most of the parking being built in the South End, it seems to me, is for residents or office tenants, with only a relatively small amount for retail customers.  So the comparison to Michigan Avenue or the friendly confines of Wrigley Field seems to me a stretch.  This is Charlotte, not Chicago.  Any developer of office, residential, hotel, or retail space had better have plenty of parking, or his project will fail.

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13 hours ago, J-Rob said:

This is all great in theory, but until the full light rail system is built out or autonomous ride shares take over the world, it seems like a moot point. A very small percentage of population lives on blue line, and very few people are open to using the buses.

I am 100% for the full Big Bang light rail system being built out, but until then I think we have to be realistic.


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There is definitely a chicken and egg issue here.  However, I think the big point that people (not you or other UP'ers) miss is that an elimination of parking minimums in zoning ordinances would permit the market to set the minimums.  In certain areas like South End, developers may choose to have more rentable space versus parking spaces.  Required parking minimums creates a subsidy for vehicular transport by forcing developers to include parking.  This forces an increase in supply thereby lowering parking costs to drivers.  

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Just now, tarhoosier said:

Regardless of municipal minimums, how much of lender requirements would set parking minimums?

So lender requirements is a big part of the problem, but the theory is if municipal parking standards were established lenders would have to change their requirements if they still wanted to invest in the Charlotte market. Developers have told me they thought investors would just move on to other boom towns. But that might have just been developer speak.

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2 hours ago, tarhoosier said:

Regardless of municipal minimums, how much of lender requirements would set parking minimums?

Some lenders are certainly stuck in the dark ages but there are a growing number of them who are willing (and sometimes eager) to finance parkingless and parkinglite developments. Cities that have eliminated parking minimums (like Seattle) certainly have not seen a reduction in growth because of the change. The growing awareness that parking will become obsolete if self-driving cars ever arrive has helped facilitate this shift by lenders.

As others have said, Americans are very fond of keeping regulation light to ‘let the market do its job’ but no one seems to be willing to adapt to a free market for parking. Developers and lenders seem to like straight-jacket-like parking regulations despite their tremendous cost.

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3 hours ago, ricky_davis_fan_21 said:

So lender requirements is a big part of the problem, but the theory is if municipal parking standards were established lenders would have to change their requirements if they still wanted to invest in the Charlotte market. Developers have told me they thought investors would just move on to other boom towns. But that might have just been developer speak.

Developers are going to continue to flock to a city where jobs and populations are growing like crazy. Will parking standards reduce the people who want to live and work in these densifying areas? Will fewer companies want to move to Charlotte if there are fewer parking spaces. The answer is probably not, especially if its a reasonable standard.

Will it affect retail in these areas? It certainly hasn't HELPED retail with the current standards.

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47 minutes ago, CarolinaDaydreamin said:

Developers are going to continue to flock to a city where jobs and populations are growing like crazy. Will parking standards reduce the people who want to live and work in these densifying areas? Will fewer companies want to move to Charlotte if there are fewer parking spaces. The answer is probably not, especially if its a reasonable standard.

Will it affect retail in these areas? It certainly hasn't HELPED retail with the current standards.

That was my stance as well. Its going to take either municipal action or a developer taking a risk and bucking the trend.

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8 hours ago, tozmervo said:

The new TOD zoning the city is developing has parking maximums. I don't know where this project falls in terms of parking count vs. units vs. retail square footage, but it looks awful. Space for storing cars definitely wagged this dog and ruined the project aesthetically.

I think with this project Cresent/Edens is trying to thread the proverbial needle - trying to have enough parking for apartment residents while having enough available so as to attract descent retail tenants.  Some retail tenants do require parking minimums, then there's the Lenders requirements, etc.

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  • 2 weeks later...
26 minutes ago, KJHburg said:

It ‘twas. Old newz

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13 minutes ago, ricky_davis_fan_21 said:

Give me a break I was on vacation all last week I forgot  lo siento!   Not like there is a new announcement of retail or restaurant or bar every week in this town LOL 

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