Pendleton Street [between West End and West Greenville]

[johnpro318]

29 minutes ago, GMoxley said:

Wherever the city puts the garage, I hope it's not just a garage and is wrapped with retail and offices/residential. Standalone garages create such dead space. 

This is true. Look at the Richardson Street garage. Lack of foresight makes this stick out like a thumb and since it's so large, it probably be there for a long time like that. I was hoping they would build micro apartments to front the alley or maybe two or three levels of small retail spaces. Anything would help.

[GvilleSC]

2 hours ago, johnpro318 said:

This is true. Look at the Richardson Street garage. Lack of foresight makes this stick out like a thumb and since it's so large, it probably be there for a long time like that. I was hoping they would build micro apartments to front the alley or maybe two or three levels of small retail spaces. Anything would help.

I agree 100% that wrapped garages are such a better experience on the street and don't produce the dead space. And, I hope anything built in the West End is well-concealed. 

BUT, I think it's only fair to note: the Richardson Street Garage is  probably (?) the most well-used garage in the city. Partially because it's been oriented to folks as the free garage, but there's also something about being able to see out, the movement of air, and not being confined within a structure. It feels safer to a lot of folks (either due to forced familiarity or due to open air and views). The city benefits either way. It's a nice looking facility, and I appreciate it being there. I'm trying to think of other exposed garages. The only others I can think of are at The Well, the one on Beattie at Liberty Square, and the new one at SunTrust. Any others are private, right?

Edited May 7, 2020 by GvilleSC

[Joey_Blackdogg]

Brickwork going up on the Trehel project at Pendleton and Academy (Old MacDonald Appliances building). This is a big building for the area...

[gman430]

 

 

[gman430]

 

[gvegascple]

On 6/25/2020 at 9:44 AM, Joey_Blackdogg said:

Brickwork going up on the Trehel project at Pendleton and Academy (Old MacDonald Appliances building). This is a big building for the area...

Does anyone know what is going in the lower level here?  I had heard that it might be a restaurant. 

[vicupstate]

^^ It is a restaurant but I don't know the name. I heard somewhere that it may be a breakfast/lunch place. 

[gvegascple]

4 minutes ago, vicupstate said:

^^ It is a restaurant but I don't know the name. I heard somewhere that it may be a breakfast/lunch place. 

Thanks!  I read that it used to be an old grocery store (I assume they kept the barrel roof/ceiling).  Its an interesting space to create something with.  Looking forward to seeing what goes in there.

[vicupstate]

713 Pendleton St sold for $1.1 million on 9/24/20. 

[gman430]

 

[Joey_Blackdogg]

New Trehel HQ is impressive from the street, hopefully we will get to see the inside at some point. I want to know how much of the barrel vaulted roof they kept in the first floor. 

[GvilleSC]

It's a little disappointing that the old structure blends in and is so consumed by the new building. They should bury more of the utility lines in order to let any new landscaping to properly grow at this gateway to the city. 

[Joey_Blackdogg]

8 minutes ago, GvilleSC said:

It's a little disappointing that the old structure blends in and is so consumed by the new building. They should bury more of the utility lines in order to let any new landscaping to properly grow at this gateway to the city. 

Agree on both counts. The utility line situation on Pendleton + the surrounding neighborhood is horrific. That seems to be one of the shortcomings of development around the margins of the CBD at this point. Not enough "encouragement" to bury the utilities. Pretty much all the street views of the new buildings like this and the McClaren on the periphery of DT are marred by power lines.

[gman430]

Meh...I don’t like the huge parking lot they constructed around this building especially where it fronts Academy. 

[vicupstate]

The windows in that building look cheap/inappropriate.  I agree the parking lot looks large and visually very imposing. 

[gvegascple]

19 hours ago, Joey_Blackdogg said:

New Trehel HQ is impressive from the street, hopefully we will get to see the inside at some point. I want to know how much of the barrel vaulted roof they kept in the first floor. 

I agree with everyone else so far on this.  The original building is swallowed up but assuming that the tress work on the exterior barrel mirrors the interior one, I do see how they are trying to pull out the old building visually that way and I do think that is good.  The parking lot is huge and the back of the buildings brick work is something I haven't been able to like yet.   A lot of parking is something that a business loves to have though, as opposed to other locations, always knowing you will get a spot definitely helps when deciding on where to go.   Hopefully that helps this spot get a foot hold on people coming to the restaurant.  A popular restaurant here could serve as an anchor for the entire area and could spur more development/jobs.  All good things, I hope it does well.

[Dino Hassiotis]

Do you now know why the owners of the property that Oj"s occupies are not happy with the RDV zoning to which they have to conform to.They will have to compete with two restaurants newly built that can and will do what they wish in regards to noise,traffic,food smells,etc. in an unfettered manner as allowed by C3.The city of Greenville took the prior location of the Boston Lunch by the use of eminent domain only to sell it to its current occupant the Sassafras Southern Bistro for a one million dollar profit at the expense of the Hassiotis family.The Hassiotis family built a new building on Pendleton St.in full compliance to their former C3 rating.The issue with RDV is that their drivethru  becomes non compliant if the current tenant leaves and the building is vacant for more than six months.In this time of COVID there are no certainties in the restaurant business.The West End Home owners Association and the city do not have a financial stake in this.Why not pick on the minorities again if you got away with it before? RDV is a way to cherry pick who gets the right to develop their personal property,by the city.As a member of the Hassiotis family would you ever trust the city of Greenville again?

[GvilleSC]

As you describe the eminent domain situation, I don't believe that would be legal -- it would have to be taken (and compensated) for public use. Do you have links to read up on this? 

Sorry to say, but you'll never convince me that the rezoning is wrong. 

[Dino Hassiotis]

Do you now know why the owners of the property that Oj"s occupies are not happy with the RDV zoning to which they have to conform to.They will have to compete with two restaurants newly built that can and will do what they wish in regards to noise,traffic,food smells,etc. in an unfettered manner as allowed by C3.The city of Greenville took the prior location of the Boston Lunch by the use of eminent domain only to sell it to its current occupant the Sassafras Southern Bistro for a one million dollar profit at the expense of the Hassiotis family.The Hassiotis family built a new building on Pendleton St.in full compliance to their former C3 rating.The issue with RDV is that their drivethru  becomes non compliant if the current tenant leaves and the building is vacant for more than six months.In this time of COVID there are no certainties in the restaurant business.The West End Home owners Association and the city do not have a financial stake in this.Why not pick on the minorities again if you got away with it before? RDV is a way to cherry pick who gets the right to develop their personal property,by the city.As a member of the Hassiotis family would you ever trust the city of Greenville again?

[transplant08]

I am also a fan of RDV zoning. Without zoning controls, some neighborhoods would be saturated with liquor stores, payday lending, pawn shops, etc. While those businesses may simply be responding to consumer demand, some residents want control over which goods and services can locate in their neighborhoods. RDV isn't perfect (it failed to stop Burger King), but it is often the last line of defense for some residents. 

For more background on the OJ's parcel, see this greenville journal article from 2 yrs ago: https://issuu.com/cjdesigns/docs/12_14_gj_issuu/4

 

[Dino Hassiotis]

The city first threatened to condemn our prior building then used eminent domain to  steal it from my father.After we broke ground due to property gain tax situation the city put our prior property up for sale.They gave us $190,000 sold it to Sassafras for $1.1 million.The documentation  is in public records, if you would take some time to do some research.RDV devalues our property  again  because it limits our potential to develop or expand without getting the city of Greenville to approve.

[transplant08]

4 minutes ago, Dino Hassiotis said:

The city first threatened to condemn our prior building then used eminent domain to  steal it from my father.After we broke ground due to property gain tax situation the city put our prior property up for sale.They gave us $190,000 sold it to Sassafras for $1.1 million.The documentation  is in public records, if you would take some time to do some research.RDV devalues our property  again  because it limits our potential to develop or expand without getting the city of Greenville to approve.

I agree that the city has a horrible historical record when it comes to eminent domain. Much of Unity Park will take the place of once residential neighborhoods. Those takings were in the name of a bypass road that was never built.

I also agree that the RDV designation seriously cuts into the value of your property. With a C3 your property would increase in value overnight, enabling you to advertise the parcel to a new business willing to pay a much higher rate than OJs.

[Dino Hassiotis]

So you're in favor of the city taking property rights from their owners on a generational basis.

[transplant08]

If the government takes value from you, they owe you the difference.

I'm in favor of protecting neighborhoods that have been neglected for generations. 

[Joey_Blackdogg]

3 hours ago, Dino Hassiotis said:

Do you now know why the owners of the property that Oj"s occupies are not happy with the RDV zoning to which they have to conform to.They will have to compete with two restaurants newly built that can and will do what they wish in regards to noise,traffic,food smells,etc. in an unfettered manner as allowed by C3.The city of Greenville took the prior location of the Boston Lunch by the use of eminent domain only to sell it to its current occupant the Sassafras Southern Bistro for a one million dollar profit at the expense of the Hassiotis family.The Hassiotis family built a new building on Pendleton St.in full compliance to their former C3 rating.The issue with RDV is that their drivethru  becomes non compliant if the current tenant leaves and the building is vacant for more than six months.In this time of COVID there are no certainties in the restaurant business.The West End Home owners Association and the city do not have a financial stake in this.Why not pick on the minorities again if you got away with it before? RDV is a way to cherry pick who gets the right to develop their personal property,by the city.As a member of the Hassiotis family would you ever trust the city of Greenville again?

Hi Dino, do you live on or near Pendleton St?

I agree that not stepping in to change the zoning for the corner parcels at Academy and Pendleton was a huge shortfall on the Planning Commission's part. Nothing screams 'Welcome to West Greenville' like the smell of a Whopper and Spinx Chicken Friers. You've been dealt a tough hand in that regard.

That said, I would disagree that West End Homeowner's and the City have no financial stake in the redevelopment of the area. Isn't the purpose of RDV is to spur development that in the long run will generate tax revenue for the City, while also trying to legislate a neighborly sense of respect in the development? That revenue can then be reinjected into the community for the beautification and improvement of the surrounding neighborhoods, yes? People (who City Council is elected by, who appoint the Planning Commission) want to live in nice places. West End Homeowner's support an almost guaranteed eventual tax increase based on their idea for the future; an extension of Main St down Pendleton which would benefit everyone that lives, works & owns property in the area.

How else does RDV restrict your use of the property in its current form other than eliminating the drive thru? I don't fully understand the limitations, but either way, would you want to open a business in a community that the community disliked? 

If it's only the drive thru, I would argue that in today's business climate, restaurants should be putting their best foot forward to incorporate online ordering into their plan; this tool + curbside delivery could, if done effectively, replace a drive-thru pretty well (not perfectly).  OJ's is a treasure and I'd hate to lose it. Should that happen though, the family could be planning (now) on how to excel within the framework given. The property has advantages that the other competitors (which really shouldn't be considered competitors) you referenced on the corners do not have....  potential charm and a much more walkable/approachable connection to the neighborhood.

All that to say, I will continue to eat at OJs and support that business in hopes that you don't need to modify your existing arrangement until you feel compelled to. 

 

Edited December 8, 2020 by Joey_Blackdogg