One Glenwood

[DwnTwnRaleighGuy]

8 hours ago, Spatula said:

10 is completely fine for the site. This building is pretty far-removed from the other skyline-contributing buildings. Anyway, no shortage of other spaces in the area for something taller. I'm pretty happy to see a building that's not a matchstick apartment and has some architectural gravitas to it.

 

Also I think it's totally irrational to compare projects from after 2008 to pie-in-the-sky proposals preceding the 2008 crash.

While I am happy to see a 10 story building in general, I don't see why you call it irrational to compare two proposals? Are you saying that if this 10 story building doesn't come about for whatever reason (including economic reasons) and they end up building a 6 story building, then it to would have been considered pie-in-the-sky? 

[DwnTwnRaleighGuy]

7 hours ago, Jones_ said:

First off, not all parts of "downtown" are the same, and secondly, the suburbs certainly are allowed to densify and mold themselves into a more urban form.

Regarding the One Glenwood site, this is an interesting piece of land downtown...sort of the center of a bow tie. Its has railroads cutting through, Edenton dumping up on to Hillsborough, and Glenwood terminating...all in one spot. Heading west you have an historic swath of structures that serves and serves well, as a transition zone from downtown proper, to both the Glenwood, corridor and the NC State corridor. All this taken together along with the simple topography and I think anything over say 15 or so, would start to look almost as awkward as the Pickle on 15-501. 

For my money I'd rather see a residential building here with ground floor retail on all sides...something like say an Art Deco warehouse, along the lines of the Creamery but with apartments instead of office space. It'd connect the actual Warehouse district with the warehouse-y powerhouse area and the older Glenwood buildings on extreme southern Gleenwood. The block needs thickened up. Its super walkable in the immediate area, and to all the other downtown areas. People should inhabit this block in my opinion and office space feels like an under utilization. 

Hi Jones,

While I agree that not every space in downtown Raleigh is suitable for a 20+ story building, downtown Raleigh is very small and land is limited. I also agree that a higher density should be allowed in other areas besides downtown ( example NH /Crabtree ). I would add that this 10 story building will be added on a major road ( Hillsborough st/Glenwood )as well as these 18+ story buildings at NH's are on Six-Forks & I-40. So I say again that a 21 story building on this site is not out of place but just maybe a bit out of the financial reach or vision of this developer?

Finally I can't let that "pickle" comment go without adding a word or two...

Downtown Raleigh has other projects under review or beginning soon that aren't too far away so building taller on this spot wouldn't be as "out by itself" as the pickle was and still is...I agree on that one...lol

[Spatula]

1 hour ago, DwnTwnRaleighGuy said:

While I am happy to see a 10 story building in general, I don't see why you call it irrational to compare two proposals? Are you saying that if this 10 story building doesn't come about for whatever reason (including economic reasons) and they end up building a 6 story building, then it to would have been considered pie-in-the-sky? 

 

I consider anything that's not a matchbox a victory these days. It's all relative.

 

 

[Green_man]

Site plan on the City's development site now.  Two pretty decent sized retail spaces:  ~5500 sq ft facing Morgan and ~9500 sq ft facing Hillsborough.  Also, interesting tidbit tucked away in a blurb about the parking deck at the current Sheltons site:  "Future Phase: Proposed parking deck (Phase 1) wrapped with hotel (Phase 2) with ground floor retail".

 

[Green_man]

Sheltons having a moving sale now and planning to close December 1.  New location for them will be downtown Clayton.  Seems like One Glenwood project will be starting soon.  Haven't heard any news about the hotel phase.  Hope its not too far down the road.

Oh, and updated rendering:

[Jones_]

Looks a lot like Charter Square now. 

I never really went to Shelton's much but note that:

a) One less retailer downtown

b) One less warehouse in the Warehouse District. 

Still a good project in my mind though. 

[InitialD]

Timeline as of right now: Construction starts mid-2017 with a 2018 opening date.

[Jones_]

Second piece to this (on Shelton's site) has been submitted for site review. Two Glenwood. 

[Merthecat]

19 hours ago, Jones_ said:

Second piece to this (on Shelton's site) has been submitted for site review. Two Glenwood. 

Good catch.  Looks like 7 stories, 85'.

[orulz]

Site plan was indeed submitted to the city, but it doesn't give us any indication of what the actual site plan looks like...

Somehow I'm hoping that they keep the eastern chunk of the property open to allow for a future extension of Glenwood Avenue.

[DwnTwnRaleighGuy]

I was always hoping that the city would extend Glenwood avenue and somehow have it connect with the Union station. I actually think that I saw that opinion in one of the previous Union station plans?

[Jones_]

That was definitely part of the original TTA plan that involved a station straddling Hargett and all the buildings on both blocks coming down. Obviously that landscape has changed. Wondering.....where could Glenwood be routed to now that is useful?  Dropping onto west won't work. Skying it was over the  station seems like a heck of a project for little gain. Thoughts?

[DPK]

As it currently stands with where Union Station is, there really isn't a huge benefit to extending Glenwood anywhere without spending an exorbitant amount of money.  As soon as that road would pass into the rail corridor, just throw your money out the window while it's lit on fire.  The one thing that I could foresee as useful is if they ever decided to plop a parking deck within the corridor in some scenario like this:

 

Where the "star" is a parking deck or station expansion for potential bus and rental car use as well.  This would be crazy expensive however as you would be doing a flyover of road into the deck from Glenwood and Hargett as they are at a higher elevation.  Then trenching pedestrian/vehicle connectivity on the Union Station side.  I'd then say just remove the stretch of Hargett (highlighted in red) to potentially appease the railroad.  You'd no longer have to worry about any auto traffic there.

Regardless of the above rambling, it won't happen.  Glenwood is probably affectively dead for through traffic due to Two Glenwood.

Edited November 26, 2016 by DPK

[Jones_]

Yeah that would work with the one caveat that it'd pass over Hargett...it's a full 20 feet below Glenwood/Morgan. 

[DPK]

1 hour ago, Jones_ said:

Yeah that would work with the one caveat that it'd pass over Hargett...it's a full 20 feet below Glenwood/Morgan. 

Yeah, what I terribly failed to articulate is that the Glenwood would essentially be a flyover of the railroad and a removed Hargett, straight into probably the second level of a parking deck.  It would suck to not have Hargett connectivity there for thru traffic, but I think in terms of safety concerns for the railroad it would be better off removed.

The elevation changes between Glenwood and Hargett, the railroad lines, and general lack of space make things crazy $$ bills.

Edited November 26, 2016 by DPK

[Jones_]

Well Hargett could still access the deck from its current grade. Any lost Glenwood/Hargett connection is not a huge deal in this case I'd think. Kudos for the creativity. I'm rolling stuff like this around in my head all the time ( though obviously this area stumped me)

[DPK]

28 minutes ago, Jones_ said:

Well Hargett could still access the deck from its current grade. Any lost Glenwood/Hargett connection is not a huge deal in this case I'd think. Kudos for the creativity. I'm rolling stuff like this around in my head all the time ( though obviously this area stumped me)

Yeah, I don't think it really matters either.  Really the only potential gain I think we could see in terms of connectivity is if one day West Street gets extended toward Cabarrus Street, which had a hefty price tag of around $24 million alone in 2012 dollars.  That or accept that never happening and connect the end of West and Davie Streets together, but you might have to take out that lone building at the end of Davie to do it "correctly".

Who knows.  Fun to think about though.  The need for automotive connectivity could become moot if in the next few years some crazy form of travel tech comes about or we all end up sealed in our homes, working remotely due to the zombie apocalypse.

[orulz]

I have this notion in my mind that Hargett would make a great transit priority street, since it connects from Union Station to Moore Square. It would be possible to build a grade separation at Hargett but the catch is it would have to jog south through the block of buildings including Five Star (which is incidentally owned by TTA /Triangle Transit/Go Triangle)o have enough "run" to rise over the tracks from West Street. This jog southward is actually a good thing, since it brings the street closer to Union Station thus reducing the distance you have to walk between commuter rail and connecting bus lines.

The connection to Glenwood through the "Two Glenwood" block is important because it would allow any bus lines operating on Glenwood to access this connection directly. The capstone to this idea would be to connect to Western Blvd BRT line to Union Station and Hargett street by using the Norfolk Southern Right-of-way between Boylan Heights and Central Prison. Build a bypass connecting that line to the NCRR along I-40. Repurpose the rest of the right of way as a rail trail connecting to Carolina Pines neighborhood over I-40 to Walnut Creek, then to Dix, then over Western Blvd to Union Station and Downtown.

I just keep getting all these big ideas like this and I realize its probably not realistic ... But just can't help it

The Five Star block could get a treatment similar to Kane's Dillon project. Keep the warehousey facades but build high rise development behind it.

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[Justin6882]

Adding a 150 room hotel: News&Observer: Developer plans 150-room hotel in downtown Raleigh

[DwnTwnRaleighGuy]

Wow! A hotel here and at the 301 Hillsboro street property. This is great news for downtown Raleigh! :-)

[Jones_]

On 11/27/2016 at 11:55 AM, orulz said:

I just keep getting all these big ideas like this and I realize its probably not realistic ... But just can't help it

 

You certainly aren't the only one to think WAY outside the box on this forum. I have to do it just to keep my sanity in the face of the things that drive me crazy. On a side note, I get the feeling the City hasn't really had anyone thinking far outside the box since the departures of Dan Douglas and Mitch Silver. Maybe it's just time to focus on cleaning up some overlooked details like finishing out some downtown streetscaping and making better bus stops. Sure Peace Street, Moore Square and the Bus Station and Union Station are all big, but they are all sort of straight vector sorts of things....

Anyway, don't tough Five Star please :)...the rest of the block, go for it. 

[InitialD]

This area of downtown has vexed me, because I'm not sure how to best utilize it and connect it. One thing that puzzles me is why Citrix decided to build their parking deck where it is instead of in between the tracks on Hargett. They said they would like to build a (I don't remember exactly) 12+ floor on that site, when I think it would have been a much better place for a tower to be at Morgan and West.

Unfortunately it seems too expensive to make connections such as tunneling West under the train tracks. I'd like for Two Glenwood to provide some nice pedestrian connectivity between Glenwood and Hargett. I hope any development in the empty space between Union Station and Boylen St will include good pedestrian connectivity. Maybe even a pedestrian bridge over the tracks from Two Glenwood or Boylen to Union Station (like the greenway bridge over 440 just above Wade Ave.

[RALNATIVE]

1 hour ago, InitialD said:

This area of downtown has vexed me, because I'm not sure how to best utilize it and connect it. One thing that puzzles me is why Citrix decided to build their parking deck where it is instead of in between the tracks on Hargett. They said they would like to build a (I don't remember exactly) 12+ floor on that site, when I think it would have been a much better place for a tower to be at Morgan and West.

Unfortunately it seems too expensive to make connections such as tunneling West under the train tracks. I'd like for Two Glenwood to provide some nice pedestrian connectivity between Glenwood and Hargett. I hope any development in the empty space between Union Station and Boylen St will include good pedestrian connectivity. Maybe even a pedestrian bridge over the tracks from Two Glenwood or Boylen to Union Station (like the greenway bridge over 440 just above Wade Ave.

I have a feeling that we will start to see pedestrian bridges being built to connect the surrounding hotel and office space to Union Station. Not sure if tunnels make sense, but the 1 Glenwood area is about to become very congested.

[Merthecat]

I personally would love to see the areas between the tracks (on both sides of Hargett) filled in with a park.  I think it would add a very interesting touch to the area.

[Spatula]

22 hours ago, InitialD said:

This area of downtown has vexed me, because I'm not sure how to best utilize it and connect it. One thing that puzzles me is why Citrix decided to build their parking deck where it is instead of in between the tracks on Hargett. They said they would like to build a (I don't remember exactly) 12+ floor on that site, when I think it would have been a much better place for a tower to be at Morgan and West.

Unfortunately it seems too expensive to make connections such as tunneling West under the train tracks. I'd like for Two Glenwood to provide some nice pedestrian connectivity between Glenwood and Hargett. I hope any development in the empty space between Union Station and Boylen St will include good pedestrian connectivity. Maybe even a pedestrian bridge over the tracks from Two Glenwood or Boylen to Union Station (like the greenway bridge over 440 just above Wade Ave.

The pedestrian connections between Glenwood South and the CBD are not great. Hillsborough Street is a car-centric barren landscape. I'd like to see a pedestrian bridge like the Millennium Bridge in Denver to cross the railroad and connect Glenwood to the Warehouse District. Perhaps a bridge or a tunnel to cross Hillsborough at Glenwood as well? Just some infrastructure to invite tourists and to give the impression of a single cohesive downtown.