One Glenwood

[Jones_]

A big ol' pedestrian set of stairs alongside Two Glenwood from Morgan down to Hargett would do the trick for me. Pittsburgh, Asheville, Portland ME off the top of my head have some stairs in their downtowns that help stitch things together. 

InitialD, I'm not sure of the soil bearing capacity of the Citrix Parking deck precluded a larger, heavier building without substantial shoring and railroad permitting as a result...but just tossing that out there as a possible reason. For sure, your plan would have been a better built environment. 

Edited December 1, 2016 by Jones_

[Merthecat]

Interestingly enough, I found on a 1981 aerial view (can be accessed via the iMaps program on Wakegov.com) that Martin Street used to run through the current Union Station property and bridge over the tracks on the west side to intersect with Boylan Ave and Kinsey Street (which used to merge into Boylan, onto a now-replaced bridge.  The intersection has been redone since, sometime before 1988, with Kinsey Street deadending at Rebus Works.)  But I thought it was interesting that there once was a bridge there!

Edited December 1, 2016 by Merthecat

[Jones_]

15 minutes ago, Merthecat said:

Interestingly enough, I found on a 1981 aerial view (can be accessed via the iMaps program on Wakegov.com) that Martin Street used to run through the current Union Station property and bridge over the tracks on the west side to intersect with Boylan Ave and Kinsey Street (which used to merge into Boylan, onto a now-replaced bridge.  The intersection has been redone since, sometime before 1988, with Kinsey Street deadending at Rebus Works.)  But I thought it was interesting that there once was a bridge there!

Yeah dude, the Martin St viaduct still had portions standing until last year adjacent to the....Viaduct Building. That's what the Union Station building was/is called. The street stripes were still visible in front of Rebus last i checked. But not to be a butt...I appreciate you finding those aerials...I used to use them a lot, but never found where they were moved to...

[ctl]

The Martin Street Viaduct was built in 1913. Torn down in 1983 or thereabouts. 

[Jones_]

8 hours ago, ctl said:

The Martin Street Viaduct was built in 1913. Torn down in 1983 or thereabouts. 

I'm just guessing, but the Boylan Ave bridge replacement in 1983 probably required it be done. If north Saunders (Glenwood) had ever been connected to south Saunders with a viaduct, we'd have had quite the El system here, albeit for cars. Saunders and Martin would have been an elevated intersection directly over the center of the Wye. 

[InitialD]

Source: Goodnight Raleigh

[ctl]

By the time that photo was taken, the 1890 Union Station had been replaced by the 1942 Seaboard station and the 1950 Southern station (which is now the Amtrak station... for another 14 months). With tracks into the 1890 station ripped up, Dillon was able to place a building onto what had been the outer end of the station trackage, alongside the Martin St viaduct.

I don't know what condition the viaduct's concrete and rebars were in by the early 1980s, or what its weight-bearing capacity it was designed for, but it was narrow and the guard rails would not have met current standards... not to mention no sidewalk for pedestrians. It had to go.

[DwnTwnRaleighGuy]

Has anyone had trouble with trying to download the PDF from the city of Raleigh Development website? I was initially able to download 4 of the 8 pages. But now even when I go to the city's site to view it, the PDF just disappears...very strange?

[Jones_]

On 12/3/2016 at 8:40 AM, ctl said:

By the time that photo was taken, the 1890 Union Station had been replaced by the 1942 Seaboard station and the 1950 Southern station (which is now the Amtrak station... for another 14 months). With tracks into the 1890 station ripped up, Dillon was able to place a building onto what had been the outer end of the station trackage, alongside the Martin St viaduct.

I don't know what condition the viaduct's concrete and rebars were in by the early 1980s, or what its weight-bearing capacity it was designed for, but it was narrow and the guard rails would not have met current standards... not to mention no sidewalk for pedestrians. It had to go.

I had assumed the viaduct was part of the setup that accessed Central Prison which also included the little strange ell bridge that is the terminus of Mountford Ave. But I don't really know...maybe the City was just making an attempt at connectivity, albeit a very expensive one. 

[DPK]

2 hours ago, Jones_ said:

I had assumed the viaduct was part of the setup that accessed Central Prison which also included the little strange ell bridge that is the terminus of Mountford Ave. But I don't really know...maybe the City was just making an attempt at connectivity, albeit a very expensive one. 

TIL about that weird Ell at Mountford Avenue.  That looks so odd on Google Maps.  Did that ever connect anywhere or passthru to the prison?  What's the story there I wonder.

[Jones_]

That was the entrance to the prison after the entrance directly from the north (that crossed the tracks at grade) closed. I forget where I read that, or the exact details, but I think it was a compromise of some sort where some non prison entity footed the bill for the side entrance (City or State, but not sure). Obviously the entrance later moved south to Western Blvd (US 64 at the time). If I ever stumble across that tidbit I'll post a link (think I read it on a Legeros posting....), the olde Raleigh and Goodnight Raleigh guys might know more too (both State archivists). 

[orulz]

DTRaleigh has unearthed the site plans for Two Glenwood.

Check it out here.

Looks like it does block any future southward extension of Glenwood. Oh well. It's not in any city plans anymore so there was no reason to expect otherwise.

[ctl]

Another bizarre aspect of the eastern entrance to the prison: it was denoted NC 31 at one point. http://www.vahighways.com/ncannex/route-log/nc031.html

[Jones_]

Interesting. Did or do all State maintained roads have to have a number? It'd be hard to keep up with what you maintain without some sort of designation system, but I'm not sure...

[InitialD]

1 hour ago, Jones_ said:

Interesting. Did or do all State maintained roads have to have a number? It'd be hard to keep up with what you maintain without some sort of designation system, but I'm not sure...

Yes, I believe so. There was a project a few years back to add little black signs atop street signs saying "SR 908353" or whatnot, at least in western NC.

[ctl]

All state-maintained roads have a number, although the numbers are not necessarily unique state-wide. Sometimes it's easy to determine the numbers and sometimes it's not. The short freeway of Wade Avenue between I-40 and Ridge Road is SR 1728. 

Edited December 9, 2016 by ctl

[DwnTwnRaleighGuy]

I see that the construction fence is finally up! Let the work begin!!!

[DwnTwnRaleighGuy]

I just wish that they had included some parking in the buildings structure. I imagine that it would more closely resemble The Dillon.

Edited June 24, 2017 by DwnTwnRaleighGuy

[InitialD]

On 6/23/2017 at 7:49 PM, DwnTwnRaleighGuy said:

I just wish that they had included some parking in the buildings structure. I imagine that it would more closely resemble The Dillon.

I'm not a huge fan of podium parking so the fact that the parking deck will be adjacent is okay with me and will make the building look better from Hillsborough. I'm usually a height queen but being located at Glenwood, 10 floors is plenty. 

[DwnTwnRaleighGuy]

3 hours ago, InitialD said:

I'm not a huge fan of podium parking so the fact that the parking deck will be adjacent is okay with me and will make the building look better from Hillsborough. I'm usually a height queen but being located at Glenwood, 10 floors is plenty. 

My problem is that when they build parking, all you will have is just a parking deck. Not exactly great land use. Imho

[CHGuy]

I believe the parking deck will eventually have a hotel in front of it.

[Green_man]

Phase 1 looks like it will be parking deck and 1 level retail on Morgan.  Hotel above the retail would be phase 2.  Weird - the ground floor retail will need a temporary roof and other extra measures to keep watertight during the interim.  Also site plan indicates potential future development on the surface lot facing Hargett.

[InitialD]

19 hours ago, DwnTwnRaleighGuy said:

My problem is that when they build parking, all you will have is just a parking deck. Not exactly great land use. Imho

Very true. Like that monstrosity of a deck next to Citrix. Given that's all you see from most angles, I almost would have preferred they just tore down the warehouse and built podium parking like Dillon. 

[RALNATIVE]

23 hours ago, DwnTwnRaleighGuy said:

My problem is that when they build parking, all you will have is just a parking deck. Not exactly great land use. Imho

I agree. As others have stated previously, every inch of land downtown is valuable and its potential should be maximized. And this is especially true in the warehouse district. If the city had a more sensible council, things like this would be better controlled.

[Jones_]

Well the retail facing Morgan and eventual hotel lobby in phase II will be a good outcome here, keeping the area interesting and built for people. I am a little surprised the parking deck entrance does't align with Glenwood...seems like a no brainer...but perhaps there is some engineering consideration I am unaware of.