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Scott's Addition Development


varunner

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Between this on one side and the VCU olympics complex on the other I am as well  for the near term- not in the Diamond Development itself but in its ability to spur attractive development to the periphery. It increasingly seems like it will be an island of urbanism flanked by inferior suburban uses - think West Broad Village, Reston Town Center etc. Keep in mind Thalhimer still controls the Scott's Walk site though so in the long term they could certainly redevelop - , not so for the VCU complex.

Are we sure the Starbucks will go away - it's on the opposite side of the street and serves different markets - i could certainly see them both staying. The current AA location and the new one across from the Science Museum on Broad seem to coexist fine as they serve a different flow of traffic.

Edited by whw53
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You gotta love this quote - 

“We’ll try to integrate (the Ellen Road land) somehow. We do want it functioning as one mixed-use project,” Guillot said.

AKA 'we never planned to integrate that project into the surrounding properties. The site plan is a cluster and we know it. 'Surprising this plan came out of Thalhimer who overall seem to be ahead of the curve in positioning prominent sites across the city for dense urban development.

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1 hour ago, whw53 said:

Between this on one side and the VCU olympics complex on the other I am as well  for the near term- not in the Diamond Development itself but in its ability to spur attractive development to the periphery. It increasingly seems like it will be an island of urbanism flanked by inferior suburban uses - think West Broad Village, Reston Town Center etc. 

I said as much a few months ago in this thread that the Diamond District would likely be a pretty suburban-esque development but was told by several people that would not be the case and it would have to be a dense urban development. I hope they are right, but I still don't see it.  As we see right here there are already very suburban type developments going in.  The main reason it is attractive to developers is it's proximity to the interstate, and that means they will want car-friendly development (ie suburban), people aren't going to be walking off the interstate ramp, they will need a place to park.

Edited by 123fakestreet
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This is beyond awful. Is it zoned TOD-1? If so, cannot the city intervene in some way -- at least "lean on" Thalhimer and somehow "incentivize" them to move away from this suburbanesque train wreck of a dumpster fire? If the city can kibosh a building as "too tall" or " not in keeping with the character of the surroundings (architectural review crap) then can they also not step in and nudge Thalhimer away from something that is CLEARLY not in keeping with the overall plan for Greater Scott's? 

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City can't stop it. I may be mistaken, but when they do these big upzoning overlays, the prior uses are generally still allowable, it just paves the way for greater density if the landowner so chooses. I want to think of this as a stepping stone to higher density, but the reality is that any of these leases will be firm for at least 10 years and then have several extension options, so in practice this will likely be here for 20-30 years.

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24 minutes ago, wrldcoupe4 said:

City can't stop it. I may be mistaken, but when they do these big upzoning overlays, the prior uses are generally still allowable, it just paves the way for greater density if the landowner so chooses. I want to think of this as a stepping stone to higher density, but the reality is that any of these leases will be firm for at least 10 years and then have several extension options, so in practice this will likely be here for 20-30 years.

I can't believe Thalhimer (and whoever else) looked at this massive property space and said "LeT's pUt ReGenCy aNd ShOrT pUmp hErE!" and everybody just nodded in the boardroom. Seriusly, what a hit to the knee caps for the Diamond District... I sincerely hope Stoney and City Council sticks their foot here. This is where I support big government using their iron fist. Where's Tito and Stalin when you need'em?!

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The  Scott's Walk tract is zoned TOD-1 now - not so when the plans were approved. It was approved as a variance to the M-1 industrial zoning at that time, If that project went to obtain a POD now it probably would be denied based on its current site layout. This one eked in last minute.  With 3 national retailers bagged it appears there was some demand here for that product - so be it.

Diamond District proposals will have to conform to the new  urban TOD-1 here ...at a minimum.. - and with the city controlling the winning bid it is doubly certainly the project will be a high quality urban district. They already said they are willing to throw out the TOD-1 imposed height cap. With that perspective I can't imagine any big-box proposal getting approved. 

Edited by whw53
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to a degree - but they didn't hold a solicitation to build a k mart -  the starting point wasn't 'whatever it looks like' - it had an array of guidelines and density requirements baked in. the planning dept and their consultants have momentum and are very urban-focused coming out of the Richmond 300 process and a number of rezoning wins past council - i don't think they'll settle here. 

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34 minutes ago, wrldcoupe4 said:

Of course it’s not a Kmart … Just don’t want the expectation to be the rendering in Richmond 300. We need 10x population growth for that kind of development. 

Coupe - a question:  So using official census figures (2010-2020) the city grew by just over 2,200 residents annually over the course of the decade. Are you saying that we would have to grow by 22,000 residents annually to warrant the kind of development along AA Blvd as shown in the Richmond 300 renderings?  In other words, a decade's worth of growth per year, every year, year over year.  Am I understanding that correctly?

I can't possibly imagine what would have to take place in RVA to translate into THAT level of population growth -- because the net result of adding 22,000 residents per year over ten years (220,000 new residents by 2030) would be that the city's population would essentially DOUBLE in a decade - literally a just under 100% increase in the city's population -- and rapid as it's growing, even Charlotte ain't pullin' off THAT level of Urban Miracle Grow. Mind you,I'd be thrilled to see RVA's city population hit 446,000 residents by 2030 - but we all know that Moses will come back and re-part the Red Sea before THAT will happen.

Which leads, then, to a question in all seriousness:  Seeing something like that rendering in the Richmond 300 plan - is essentially unrealistic at least in my lifetime? You mentioned, Coupe, that the awful Scott's Walk development likely will be around for 20 or 30 years at least -- Jesus - I would be 89 turning 90 in 30 years - provided I make it that long -- so I'll likely never EVER see the west side of A.A. Blvd in Greater Scott's fully blossom. Folks, I can't even begin to describe just how painful a concept that is to me personally :tw_confused:).

Edited by I miss RVA
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34 minutes ago, I miss RVA said:

Coupe - a question:  So using official census figures (2010-2020) the city grew by just over 2,200 residents annually over the course of the decade. Are you saying that we would have to grow by 22,000 residents annually to warrant the kind of development along AA Blvd as shown in the Richmond 300 renderings?  In other words, a decade's worth of growth per year, every year, year over year.  Am I understanding that correctly?

I don't want to necessarily speak for Coupe, but I read this as a slight (maybe more than "slight") exaggeration.  However, to his point, I think he is saying that there would have to be a lot more people in the area for something we saw in the Richmond 300 rendering to occur...a lot more than what's there now.

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4 hours ago, wrldcoupe4 said:

I don't know... I think the city will go with the project that is most likely to occur, whatever that looks like. They need a win badly since they have lost on all recent large initiatives.

The city can largely determine what gets built in the DD because they own the land and will only sell it to the developer of a plan they like. The city doesn't own or have a say on the land being developed on the other side of AA. 

That said I wish those developers would have some awareness and look at what's likely happening across the street, and see that what they are doing is not the highest use of the land.  Developments get canceled or redone all the time. Wish it would stop happening with tall residential towers, etc, and happen with this one. We need a win in that column.

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16 minutes ago, 123fakestreet said:

The city can largely determine what gets built in the DD because they own the land and will only sell it to the developer of a plan they like. The city doesn't own or have a say on the land being developed on the other side of AA. 

This certainly true, but the city only loses in this situation because, again, they are sitting on valuable land that is producing $0 tax revenue and they will lose their AA minor league team without a developer funding a stadium. For the avoidance of doubt, I'm not saying we should expect Stratford Hills Shopping Center here. I'm just saying don't be surprised if it doesn't look like the pretty pictures from Richmond 300.  And frankly, that should be okay with all of us if it gets us moving in a direction that is decidedly more dense and urban.

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20 minutes ago, wrldcoupe4 said:

This certainly true, but the city only loses in this situation because, again, they are sitting on valuable land that is producing $0 tax revenue and they will lose their AA minor league team without a developer funding a stadium. For the avoidance of doubt, I'm not saying we should expect Stratford Hills Shopping Center here. I'm just saying don't be surprised if it doesn't look like the pretty pictures from Richmond 300.  And frankly, that should be okay with all of us if it gets us moving in a direction that is decidedly more dense and urban.

My point wasn't about what goes in the DD but what is going in across the street. The city is limited by what the market will offer in regards to DD, but they will at least be able to choose among plans or give feedback to improve them. There is absolutely none of that leverage across the street.

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5 hours ago, wrldcoupe4 said:

Yep - I'm not a statistician, I was responding to hyperbole with hyperbole. My point is that rendering is something that the reality would have to play out over decades for something like that rendering. The city won't be holding out for some something that really resembles the rendering right away, because this whole effort is a waste of time if that is the case. They will take something with decent density and a baseball stadium that requires minimum city financial investment. I understand there are principles and objectives by the planners, but this isn't SimCity, they can't make it so if the market conditions don't support the perfect outcome. And politically, the mayor needs a win on this! The reality will be something denser than Scott's Walk but less dense than what most here are expecting. Please universe, prove me wrong, but that was the point I was trying to make. Just setting expectations.

:tw_joy:  True!

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I just wanted to point out that in today's Richmond BizSense, there's a cover feature about a new, large-scale, reasonably high-density (600 units) project ALREADY UNDERWAY directly across I-95 from Green City. Not the first blade of dirt has yet to be turned for Green City, and still the county gets a really high land-use project to compliment what is to come.

Amazing that Henrico can get something like this across the street from a proposed country-driven massive redevelopment project.  And... across from the Diamond District (I guess our "answer" to Green City), we get... garbage. I'm sorry, but I will poo-poo on Scott's Walk until my fat carcass is lowered into the grave. We get a train-wreck of a dumpster fire of stinking, reeking garbage across from OUR major city-driven redevelopment project.

And  just a couple miles to the west - a lovely 10-story apartment building is going on rise on STAPLES-FREAKING-MILL ROAD!!!  And we can't seem to do much better than six-story apartments on E. Grace downtown -- (I know - Pinecrest - but that's being aimed at VCU students) and now, of all things, the 11-story Port-RVA2 building in Manchester has been butchered like a Cornish hen -- and is not only shrunken down to five stories but is now less than 50% of the footprint of the original proposal.

WHAT THE  E-DOUBLE-F  AM I MISSING????

Yes, boys and girls - @I miss RVA is NOT a happy camper today. :tw_unamused: :angry:  As Chef says on Hell's Kitchen - "let's get THAT right!!"

Edited by I miss RVA
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2 hours ago, DowntownCoruscant said:

Drive-thu Sheetz coming to Regency, but I can only imagine Scott’s Walk gave it the old college try to bring it there.

Where's the eye-roll or face-palm emoji as a "like" response when you need it?  And I'm in agreement with you on this, @DowntownCoruscant.  Hard to believe so much time, money and effort will HOPEFULLY go into making this Diamond District redevelopment at least SOMETHING of decent size and density (plus the ballpark) - and will give the northern half of the overall Greater Scott's area something to hang its collective hat on. Only to see this fetid pile of drek splay itself out on the west side of Arthur Ashe Boulevard - and this despite the fact that the fine folks at Novel are building a GORGEOUS 7-story apartment building at the southernmost end of this stretch of real estate.  (And frankly, I'm still a bit bummed there doesn't seem to be any impetus to try to relo the bus station out of there, too.

Is it wrong to want Scott's Walk to FAIL SPECTACULARLY??? I'm trying to be nice about it - but Jesus Christ, I just can't.

Edited by I miss RVA
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I think the absolute best we can hope for is something along the lines of Mosaic in Fairfax County. Good urban form, nice street grid, plenty of mixed use and green space. But also car-friendly with multiple parking decks and road accessibility on all sides. It has a Target anchor with lots of high-end retail and plenty of restaurants. Nothing over 6 stories. 

I just don't know if the market and our population can support it. I sure hope so... this would be a massive win. 

https://www.cnu.org/publicsquare/2021/03/29/mosaic-active-streets-and-public-space

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1 hour ago, Urbs42 said:

I think the absolute best we can hope for is something along the lines of Mosaic in Fairfax County. Good urban form, nice street grid, plenty of mixed use and green space. But also car-friendly with multiple parking decks and road accessibility on all sides. It has a Target anchor with lots of high-end retail and plenty of restaurants. Nothing over 6 stories. 

I just don't know if the market and our population can support it. I sure hope so... this would be a massive win. 

https://www.cnu.org/publicsquare/2021/03/29/mosaic-active-streets-and-public-space

I hear ya, but gosh I hope you’re wrong. Would love to see taller buildings here, providing for even more density.  Yeah, I’d be disappointed if nothing was over 6 stories, but I wouldn’t be surprised (unfortunately).

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