Carolina Hurricanes

[DanRNC]

The older Hurricanes thread is now archived so this is being renewed, but may not last long as all signs, the latest fire sale, point to a Canadian relocation for this team, most likely Quebec. What is the word down in the Raleigh area regarding this?

[Rufus]

They've been one of the more successful expansion Sun Belt teams, and do have a strong base down in Raleigh.  I just don't see them moving any time soon.  Maybe I'm biased since I grew up on the Canes.  I think this fire sale was more a way to invigorate and plan for the team next year.  They have a decent year currently, so who knows.  But I would doubt they move before other Sun Belt teams, like the Florida Panthers or Phoenix Coyotes, relocate. 

[HopHead]

I would honestly be surprised if the Hurricanes relocated to Quebec City in the near future (or anywhere for that matter) as long as Karamanos still owns the team.. Though, could be a different situation when he sells them (is he still actively trying to do that?). Also, I remember there was some heavy speculation about that late last year when the new Quebec arena opened up, but right now the Canadian dollar isn't doing well and that makes this option less likely. The Raleigh-Durham market is only growing and has a strong economy. The one thing the Canes don't have going for them right now is that they are dead last in attendance, despite being a decent team this year. That doesn't help the rumors though, even if it's not likely. For the life of me I can't figure out why Florida has two hockey teams. I don't know the current situation of the Florida Panthers, but I think that would be a logical candidate as well. The Lightning actually do pretty well in Tampa.

[Green_man]

6 hours ago, DanRNC said:

The older Hurricanes thread is now archived so this is being renewed, but may not last long as all signs, the latest fire sale, point to a Canadian relocation for this team, most likely Quebec. What is the word down in the Raleigh area regarding this?

You don't seem to know much about hockey.  Here's some more info on the "fire sale" as you call it.

http://www.canescountry.com/2016/2/29/11135150/2016-nhl-trade-deadline-hurricanes-trade-john-michael-liles-to-bruins

Or generally smart GM moves when you consider they were 3 unrestricted free agents.  Basically dumbed down... we got some prospects and draft picks for loaning out our rent-a-players to playoff teams.  If we want them back Canes can re-sign them in the off-season.  Whether they do that or not will come down to contract demands from the players and their value on the free market.

[DanRNC]

Actually I know quite a bit about hockey and when you unceremoniously unload the face/captain of your franchise and make no real moves in free agency it signals they are not committed to winning in NC. Of course, they blabber about "rebuilding" but this really is the pre-sale, pre-relocation yard sale.  The Hurricanes have some of the lowest attendance in the league and no buyer, in his right mind,  is going to absorb those losses. 

[DwnTwnRaleighGuy]

Thoughts on this topic from a more current viewpoint?

[DanRNC]

From a relocation standpoint, there are a couple of things Raleigh has in their favor including a limited number of cities/markets which could support an NHL franchise. The most likely would be Quebec City, Hamilton, and less so, Seattle. The major factor going against the Canes is their miserable attendance numbers (2nd worst in major league sports). The hard truth is that relocation will be an attractive option for the new owner (if this sale does happen).  

[Trent Y]

Anybody know what the attendance numbers were even when winning?

[RiverwoodCLT]

What will happen to the Checkers in Charlotte if the Canes move.  Would they still be with the moved team?

[Green_man]

Wait what?  The Hurricanes are moving?

[DPK]

2 hours ago, Green_man said:

Wait what?  The Hurricanes are moving?

I doubt it.  The Hurricanes have a pretty good lease deal through 2024 at PNC.

People are just jumping to weird conclusions due to the recent talks of Karmanos potentially selling the team.  Karmanos has said before that he'd prefer ownership to remain with a local investor regardless of the situation.  NHL commissioner Gary Bettman has also stated the team will remain in the Triangle.

http://www.newsobserver.com/sports/nhl/carolina-hurricanes/article44283009.html

Edited August 16, 2017 by DPK

[Green_man]

18 hours ago, DPK said:

I doubt it.  The Hurricanes have a pretty good lease deal through 2024 at PNC.

People are just jumping to weird conclusions due to the recent talks of Karmanos potentially selling the team.  Karmanos has said before that he'd prefer ownership to remain with a local investor regardless of the situation.  NHL commissioner Gary Bettman has also stated the team will remain in the Triangle.

http://www.newsobserver.com/sports/nhl/carolina-hurricanes/article44283009.html

Yes.  That is my understanding as well.  Seems like most of the relocation rumors come from outsiders who don't really have all the information.

[HRVT]

On 7/19/2017 at 10:05 PM, Trent Y said:

Anybody know what the attendance numbers were even when winning?

Carolina Hurricanes Attendance History and Ranking (out of 30 teams)

2016-2017: 11,776 (30th)   (29th place was Arizona averaging 13,094)

2015-2016: 12,203 (30th)   (29th place was Arizona averaging 13,433)

2014-2015: 12,594 (29th)

2013-2014: 15,483 (23rd)

2012-2013: 17,558 (17th)

2011-2012: 16,042 (22nd)

2010-2011: 16,415 (20th)

2009-2010: 15,240 (23rd)

2008-2009: 16,572 (20th)   (PLAYOFFS)

2007-2008: 16,633 (20th)

2006-2007: 17,386 (15th)

2005-2006: 15,596 (21st)  (STANLEY CUP CHAMPS!)

2004-2005: LOCKOUT, NO SEASON

2003-2004:  12,330 (29th)    (Interestingly, Pittsburgh was dead last that season)

2002-2003: 15,682 (19th)

2001-2002: 15,508 (24th)     (STANLEY CUP RUNNERS UP)

2000-2001: 13,355 (29th)   (PLAYOFFS)

 

So the conclusion here is that when winning, the team is relatively well supported. But I think a large part of the problem with support the last few years has to do with the fact that the team has been a complete loser of late. I mean, the team has missed the playoffs each of the last eight years.... in a league where over half of the teams involved make the playoffs. That kind of futility will turn off the fanbase. The future does look a bit brighter now though. I'm interested to see how the Canes parlay that success into fans in the seats. I don't think hockey will ever be king in Carolina.... but if the team can win a little and make the playoffs more often than not, I think the attendance figures can pull out of the fourth quartile. Heck, even at their best though, the Canes were only sporadically successful. They lost in the Finals... missed the playoffs for two years straight, then WON THE WHOLE THING.... only to fail to qualify for the playoffs again for two more years. One more playoff season and we haven't seen them back since. That kind of losing will lose you a fanbase. 

But I do think the streak ends this year. And I'll enjoy the $20 seats on Stubhub while they last.

 

Edited August 26, 2017 by HRVT

[HRVT]

So, since the last post in this thread, Karmanos appears to have sold the team and for now, it appears that the Canes will stick around through the duration of the lease. Who knows after that, but this at least should give the Canes some  time to turn around their losing ways which should help turn attendance around to a degree.

 

With optimism a little higher than usual and the Canes generally in the hunt for a playoff bid,  attendance seems to have crept up a tad this year too. About halfway through the year, the Canes rank 30th out of 31 in attendance with an average of 12,524 per game. The last few games or so have seen an uptick in attendance though and I think finishing with an average above 13K is realistic. 

[Green_man]

New Hurricanes majority owner Tom Dundon seems poised to make some pretty big splashes and changes.  He mentioned specifically building a new "state of the art training facility" and alluded to reviewing plans for the south entrance expansion of the arena.

He seems very ambitious and enthusiastic about the ownership prospects!

I'd love to see some mixed-use development accompany the south expansion project.  Retail facing the plaza and street with office spaces above.  Either incorporate parking in the buildings or replace the parking with a parking deck adjacent.   (sketches are some ideas)

[Jones_]

The wider area here has so much potential to be put together in a nice urban way. Westchase always seemed like a key to me. Developing mixed residential over retail along there seemed like it could be the start of the 'other downtown' leaders envisioned back in the 80's, at least as far as getting proper form in place.  Also I think it's time to consider punching another tunnel under Wade, from the District Drive area. All of those State parking lots up there could support a shuttle down to the stadium/arena complex. 

Edited January 12, 2018 by Jones_

[DCMetroRaleigh]

New year, same @Canes.

A five-game Sunday saw Carolina extend its franchise-record win and point streaks to 11 and 17 games, respectively. 

[HRVT]

So since my last post on this topic years ago, attendance has gotten quite the boost:

2017-2018: 13,321 (29th out of 31)     (Note: Crazily enough, this was the 9th straight year of missing the playoffs..... and they haven't missed in the 5 seasons since).

2018-2019: 14,322 (28th out of 31)   (Clearly starting to creep up)

2019-2020: 16,795 (22nd out of 31)  (Of course, this season got cut a little short due to COVID and those extra few games may have helped as the Canes had clearly shown they weren't a fluke but things were clearly heading in the right direction).

2020-2021: Canes played well.... but COVID year.

2021-2022: 17,210 (13th out of 32)   (Now that the Canes have done a 180 and are a winning franchise..... they're supported!)

2022-2023: 19,526 (2nd!!! out of 32)  

What I can find right now is that the Canes have slipped back to 18,795 this year (good for 7th). But let's just say that the Canes are now no longer even a remote candidate for relocation. Crazy what going from consistent loser to consistent winner will do. The days of $20 Stubhub tickets or $40 lower-level seats offered by the club are LONG gone. 

Edited March 28 by HRVT