Greenville County Square redevelopment

[btoy]

Yet another link that I can't look at.

[gman430]

1 minute ago, btoy said:

Yet another link that I can't look at.

Try this: https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.greenvilleonline.com/amp/773979002

[btoy]

those don't work anymore

 

[SVL]

8 hours ago, gman430 said:

Good story here with renderings from the other proposals: https://www.greenvilleonline.com/get-access/?return=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.greenvilleonline.com%2Fstory%2Fmoney%2F2018%2F07%2F14%2Fcounty-releases-vision-turning-old-mall-into-1-billion-downtown-district%2F773979002%2F

A few observations: 

-RocaPoint and Armada Hoffler had very similar proposals but I like the design of the county square building with RocaPoint’s project more. Armada Hoffler’s building is just flat out boring and has been recycled everywhere enough already. No word how they would finance really hurt their chances at being selected. 

-Carolina Holdings/Fletcher Development’s layout looks like something that belongs in the suburbs not downtown. Wayyy too much surface parking also especially around the movie theater. However, there would be no county office building anywhere on site. That could be good or bad depending on how you look at it.  

-Crosland Southeast’s/Northwood Ravin’s proposal is very similar to Armada Hoffler and Rocapoint’s proposal in terms of layout and height but the county office building would be built across University Ridge where the health department building currently stands which might be a good thing overall. However, just like with Armada Hoffler’s rendering for the county office building, it doesn’t look as nice as the one with RocaPoint in my opinion.

-East West Partner’s proposal has the high rises everybody wanted along with a twin of the Furman Bell Tower. Financing and layout are exactly the same as RocaPoint’s. Not sure why they weren’t selected. Maybe it had to do with RocaPoint being a larger company which would probably make it easier for them to get financing and finishing the project in budget over East West Partners.

-Municipal Consolidation and Construction’s proposal is vey similar to East West Partners but it really lacks with commercial space (only 60,000 square feet.) The height of the proposed county office building sure looks good though. 

 

Even though it lacks height, I still like RocaPoint’s proposal the best. The size, architecture, layout, financing, amenities, and mixed use elements put them at the top over any of the other proposals. East West Partners proposal is a very close second though. Hopefully some of these development companies who weren’t selected will decide to build elsewhere downtown. Oh and here is what RocaPoint has in mind for the site at full build: 

4692 parking spaces. 

[gman430]

Update: https://www.greenvilleonline.com/story/money/2018/09/27/greenville-county-square-whats-next-1-b-project/1433425002/

[distortedlogic]

As I said before this is a big, transformational project. But, the more of these renderings I see the more I can't help but be disappointed with the lack of density and, yes, height here.  The renderings look like a suburban development to me with the same architecture (aside from the county office building) on short low rise buildings that we see everywhere. The sq ft numbers don't seem to match up with the short buildings. 

I'm not asking for a row of 40 story buildings here , but would it have been that difficult to make this truly special, some different and more signature architecture, and maybe a couple buildings in the 15-20 story range to really make an impact and show some great views?

Renderings just look so run of the mill, don't seem to be large enough to contain sq ft estimates, low density, and nothing special. Let's be a little more bold and daring here we only get one chance for this one. 

[gman430]

I believe zoning laws only allow for a maximum of six stories on site which is unfortunate. 

[distortedlogic]

I thought that was just based on a proposal done a few years ago and not on an actual zoning or restriction. At one time Project Skyline reportedly called for a building of 30 or so stories on the same site.

Edited September 28, 2018 by distortedlogic

[vicupstate]

2 hours ago, gman430 said:

I believe zoning laws only allow for a maximum of six stories on site which is unfortunate. 

I thought I read that was going away and that at least one 8 story building is anticipated. 

[ausrutherford]

It is a PD. It would need a PD Amendment anyway. They can just insert taller height along with the amendment. 

[gman430]

Core sample drilling has started for the office building: 

Edited October 11, 2018 by gman430

[btoy]

Someone may have earlier posted this, but I noticed this morning that Cobb Tire has closed.

[gman430]

Everything is moving forward: https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.greenvilleonline.com/amp/2334772002

[GvilleSC]

Can you summarize? I can't view the articles, even going through the old google method.

[vicupstate]

Cobb Tire has moved out of its building at the corner of Church Street and University Ridge, and the state of South Carolina has ceded ownership of University Ridge to Greenville County.

Those are the two surest signs that, with 2018 coming to a close, something big is coming to County Square, the sprawling former shopping mall that has served as headquarters for local government near downtown Greenville since the 1980s. 

But it's slow.

"Things are going on, things are moving along toward our ultimate goal," Butch Kirven, chairman of the Greenville County Council, said Tuesday.

Kirven is part of a three-man county team overseeing redevelopment of roughly 37 acres of county-owned land along University Ridge. The county reached a deal with RocaPoint developers out of Atlanta in May to sell the site in pieces for redevelopment, and developers have been busy conducting surveys, title searches and geo-technical studies in the months since.

If market forces play out as forecast under the public-private deal, the project will add a new $1 billion shopping-working-residential neighborhood to Greenville's West End over the next decade. 

According to a March 2018 proposal from RocaPoint, there will be up to 1,100 apartments, 450,000 square feet of retail space, 650,000 square feet of office space and up to 350 hotel rooms — in addition to a new county office tower, which will be built first.

Kirven asked Patrick Leonard, who is leading the project for RocaPoint, if the project was still on schedule.

"There are no problems," Leonard said. "The feasibility study went pretty much as expected."

If original plans hold true, the old Bell Tower shopping mall off Church Street and University Ridge where county government has done its daily business for more than 30 years is set to meet the wrecking ball by early 2020.

Buy Photo

Developer RocaPoint's rendering of the proposed layout shows the new County Square building to the right in purple at the corner of University Ridge and Church Street. University Ridge is realigned in the sketch, and a public park extends from County Square down through the center of the development. (Photo: Greenville County)

 

RocaPoint's March 2018 proposal also noted that buildings in the new development could reach as high as 10 stories — four stories taller than current zoning alllows.  

Leonard said he has been talking with city of Greenville planners about getting that zoning changed. The zoning plan for that area, known as the Haynie-Sirrine Neighborhood Code, also calls for apartment buildings to have gabled roofs, not the modern, clean design envisioned in RocaPoint's proposal.

"It hasn't been updated in 15 years," Leonard said.

"We think there will be a lot of cooperation," added Phil Mays, a principal with RocaPoint.

RocaPoint has not yet submitted a plan to the city of Greenville.

Design 'intact'

The developer's plan for the county's new $60 million glass-and-steel office building has also remained largely unchanged. The 250,000-square-foot, multistory government building at Church Street and University Ridge is being designed by London-based Foster & Partners, the team behind the famous Apple Park in Silicon Valley. 

County Administrator Joe Kernell said that he attended a design meeting Tuesday morning, at which all parties agreed to stick to the original proposed design. 

"It's intact," Kernell said of the design. "There's still some discussion about the roof materials, but it's very similar to what was presented earlier."

Kernell said he should have more information soon, too, about the fate of state offices getting nudged off county property because of the county land's sale and redevelopment.

Only five of the county's current 37 acres along University Ridge will ultimately remain public property, and only county services will remain on site.

Even the road — University Ridge — is set to disappear. The state Department of Transportation recently abandoned the road (at the county's request), and developers are planning to pave new, straighter avenues within the development.

"We have complete control of that road now," Kernell said. "It's totally up to us."

State offices that must be vacated include the public health and Department of Motor Vehicles buildings fronting University Ridge, as well as the Social Security and family court buildings behind the former Cobb Tire building along Church Street.

[apaladin]

If the old bell tower mall is going to meet the wrecking ball in early 2020 where are those offices/people going to go?

Edited December 19, 2018 by apaladin

[gman430]

1 minute ago, apaladin said:

If the old bell tower mall is going to meet the wrecking ball in early 2020 where are those offices/people going to go?

They’re going to build the new county office building first where Cobb Tire currently sits. After that is complete, the office workers will move into the new building and demolition will start on the old mall. 

[distortedlogic]

2 hours ago, apaladin said:

If the old bell tower mall is going to meet the wrecking ball in early 2020 where are those offices/people going to go?

They're going into the new four story "tower" the article mentions. LOL, only in Greenville is four story building a tower!

[apaladin]

1 hour ago, distortedlogic said:

They're going into the new four story "tower" the article mentions. LOL, only in Greenville is four story building a tower!

That is funny. Count me as doubtful, the new building will be complete by early 2020. I thought the "tower" was supposed to be 5 stories not 4.

[ausrutherford]

I am hoping to have a new Bell Tower that emulates the old Furman one when its all said and done. 

[distortedlogic]

3 hours ago, ausrutherford said:

I am hoping to have a new Bell Tower that emulates the old Furman one when its all said and done. 

That's a fantastic idea, I would love to see that as well.

9 hours ago, apaladin said:

That is funny. Count me as doubtful, the new building will be complete by early 2020. I thought the "tower" was supposed to be 5 stories not 4.

Yeah I think it's 5 too but still nothing close to a tower. The footprint of that thing is huge. I actually like the design of the building, it's something open and different, it's just that we don't have too many opportunities for highrises around here. The website article mentions the plan actually calls for buildings up to ten stories and the city is looking at changing the zoning. Still, that seems like a huge miss of an opportunity to get a signature highrise on that hill. Also says hosing is supposed to have gabled roofing, which I would love to see more of, but sounds like they want to change that too.

[gman430]

Any word as to when construction will start on this? 

[apaladin]

Crickets, maybe in a couple of years?

[gman430]

Is this project dead? 

[apaladin]

23 minutes ago, gman430 said:

Is this project dead? 

Sure seems like it. A year and zero progress.