Greenville County Square redevelopment

[vicupstate]

Considering how long it took to just get a developer choosen and publicly identified, it should be no surprise that it hasn't broke ground. They were still deciding where to put the offices like the Health Department that aren't going into the new 'icon' building.  

[gman430]

And whatever happened to the parking garage the city was supposed to build in the West End as part of this?  Everything just went poof.  

 

Edited April 1, 2019 by gman430

[gman430]

Well, I just received word from the horses mouth that everything is moving forward and the project is not on hold. It will break ground in 8-9 months.

Still not sure about the city parking garage in the West End though. 

Edited April 1, 2019 by gman430

[apaladin]

So in reality, we're probably looking at another year at least before anything happens. Wow! 

[GVLover]

15 minutes ago, apaladin said:

So in reality, we're probably looking at another year at least before anything happens. Wow! 

Considering this is a large scale project with many moving parts, I never anticipated for 2019 to be the year to break ground, so to hear possibly 8-9 months is impressive. I would love to see more renderings, that might starve off my appetite for a few months. Haha That said, about a month ago or so I did remember reading that internally there were some disagreements that put the project in danger; those disagreements must’ve been put to rest. 

[btoy]

17 hours ago, apaladin said:

Sure seems like it. A year and zero progress.

Civil Engineering and Architecture takes time.

[GVLover]

Here are 3 plans to move state offices from County Square. They all cost more than $38M

https://www.greenvilleonline.com/story/news/local/2019/04/09/county-square-project-move-state-offices/3300751002/

[Exile]

3 hours ago, GVLover said:

Here are 3 plans to move state offices from County Square. They all cost more than $38M

https://www.greenvilleonline.com/story/news/local/2019/04/09/county-square-project-move-state-offices/3300751002/

"Pleasantburg Road" (??!!)

[vicupstate]

I hope this doesn't become a big deal. Hopefully the Fluor buildings sell for a reasonable price and that goes forward.  

[gman430]

Anything that help takes vacant office space off the market is a win-win. Hope it works out. 

[apaladin]

Gotta love how they keep calling the new 5 story county office building a "tower". 

[PuppiesandKittens]

Is it really a good idea to move offices that serve a low-income population out to a no-transit, higher income area such as Halton Road?

[vicupstate]

^^ It is on a bus route.

[distortedlogic]

Doesn't make any sense to me, sounds like a total lack of planning and communication. How the could the state just have found out; did it think it was included in the development? Why wasn't it included? Wouldn't it have been easier and far cheaper to make the 5 story "tower" a ten story tower and include them? Huh?

[gman430]

Why is the county having to pay for state offices? Shouldn’t the state be paying for it?  

[btoy]

What are the three options?

[vicupstate]

8 hours ago, gman430 said:

Why is the county having to pay for state offices? Shouldn’t the state be paying for it?  

It is what is called an 'unfunded mandate'. The state specifies what the countys must provide to state agencies in terms of office space , but does not specifically pay for it.  Some state revenues are shared with localities, but the legislature can and at times does, reduce that amount or add new requirements to what the countys must provide. 

This situation allows the state to push off certain expenses to local governments or to simply share less revenue, when the economy is bad.  That allows the state to keep taxes the same while local govenments are then forced to reduce services or raises property taxes.   The Legislature can essentially force countys to raise taxes but not catch the blame.         

1 hour ago, btoy said:

What are the three options?

1) The former Fluor buildings

2) Part of the TD convention Center

3) McAlister Square

  

The site Kernell favors — a pair of 30-year-old former Fluor office buildings on Halton Road near Haywood Mall — sold for $18,350,000 just over a year ago, according to county records, and city building permits show it has had just under $1 million in upgrades in the months since.

According to a March 29 memo acquired by The Greenville News, the county has offered $33.1 million for the buildings, which are empty, and would need to spend $5 million to $8 million to convert them to state offices. That's how the county could solve its state-office problem for, at most, $41 million.

Colliers International has been marketing the property as the Axis Office Park. The three-story buildings are located at 350 and 352 Halton Road in Greenville.

Roberts said the county currently has no appraisal for the buildings and doubts they are worth the $33.1 million asking price since they sold for nearly $15 million less in January 2018. 

The county had also considered relocating state offices to Greenville Tech's McAlister Square and the city of Greenville's convention center on Pleasantburg Drive, which are huge, are already in public hands and are conveniently located.

But the old Fluor buildings are the best option, according to the Kernell memo, because McAlister Square and the convention center face millions of dollars in up-fit costs ($11.7 million for the former and $30.5 million for the latter). Further complicating matters: The sites are already being used and face massive additional costs and timing delays to deal with that.

[vicupstate]

If I had a big building to sell, I would sure be raising my hand right now. 

[GvilleSC]

I'm a little afraid that they're going to make a short-sighted decision on this. A lot of things need to be considered, not the least of which should be future mass transit plans. 

[NewlyUpstate]

25 minutes ago, vicupstate said:

The site Kernell favors — a pair of 30-year-old former Fluor office buildings on Halton Road near Haywood Mall — sold for $18,350,000 just over a year ago, according to county records, and city building permits show it has had just under $1 million in upgrades in the months since.

According to a March 29 memo acquired by The Greenville News, the county has offered $33.1 million for the buildings, which are empty, and would need to spend $5 million to $8 million to convert them to state offices. That's how the county could solve its state-office problem for, at most, $41 million.

It sounds like everyone is on board with the Fluor building as the best choice, but the debate on this topic seems to be on the bolded portions above.  Why is the county buying this property for $15 million more than it was sold for last  year?  Kernell seems to be handwaiving this away (trying to earn that paycheck I guess) while other council members seem to be alarmed at the sharp appreciation.

Anyone have an insight on office real estate prices?

[vicupstate]

The city is doing a top to bottom evaluation of all its facilities as well. There might be an opportunity to do a joint effort of some kind.   There certainly is some land the governemnt owns,  that given its value, should be located elsewhere.    

I have long thought government was the best use of the Gateway site (old Auditorium) site.  The accesibility issues would be less relevant there, IMO.  

 

[GVLover]

$1B redevelopment of County Square in jeopardy with 'no' vote on state offices

https://www.greenvilleonline.com/story/news/2019/04/10/county-square-redevelopment-state-offices-no-vote/3411163002/

[vicupstate]

With Dill in favor of the deal were Council Chairman Butch Kirven, Liz Seman, Sid Cates, Bob Taylor and Dan Trip. Voting against the deal were Rick Roberts, Lynn Ballard, Ennis Fant, Michael Barnes, Xanthene Norris and Willis Meadows

Dill and fant both stated the County Square deal is in jeopardy. 

[Edgar]

2 minutes ago, GVLover said:

$1B redevelopment of County Square in jeopardy with 'no' vote on state offices

The “in jeopardy” part sounds like Greenville News just using an eye-catching headline. I can’t imagine the whole thing falling apart because of a delay in moving these state offices. I wouldn’t think the council members who voted against the move to Halton would also be against the redevelopment. I’m sure the council will figure something out, given how much money is involved in the redevelopment deal.  If anything, this will just cause a delay,  which we are already used to with just about every single project in Greenville, especially those involving government/tax money.

[NewlyUpstate]

Definitely not anywhere close to dead. As I said before, sounds like most of the back and forth is on the value of the Fluor offices.  They need to get a 3rd party independent assessment of the value and then I'm sure they will get the votes they need. Krenell rushing to pay $33 million for those vacant offices is a little eyebrow raising in my opinion.