Greenville County Square redevelopment

[PuppiesandKittens]

24 minutes ago, gman said:

Might as well convert it back to a downtown campus for Furman U.

A downtown university campus would be a good thing to do; I like your idea.  Too bad Climpson already built its auto center elsewhere, but perhaps this could be a site for other programs.

[Den2Gvl]

https://greenvillejournal.com/2019/05/09/opinion-university-ridge-development-to-generate-1-1-billion-economic-impact-for-county/

[GVLover]

2 hours ago, gman said:

Might as well convert it back to a downtown campus for Furman U.

I mentioned a Downtown Furman/New University Campus (USofG?) a few posts back and the more time goes on, the better of an idea it sounds. Vic mentioned how such a campus could be implemented within the current framework of the redevelopment akin to WestEdge in Charleston and frankly, I find that to be a brilliant idea. As I wrote in my post, PRIMSA could join such an initiative as they want an innovation campus + an “education presence” is already called for within the Downtown Masterplan. 

I know County Square Redevelopment has been presented as a once in a lifetime opportunity, but to develop an innovation campus to Furman/New University on 37 acres of land in one of best downtowns in the USA is THE opportunity of a lifetime. 

[PuppiesandKittens]

Does Furman need a new campus? 

There are plenty of "name" (and other reputable) universities that have branches all around the country.  I can't see Cornell (which has multiple locations) opening a branch in Greenville, but Northeastern U. in Boston has a branch in Charlotte, and surely there are others.  I think that expanding and improving higher education through this site is a great idea.

[GVLover]

38 minutes ago, PuppiesandKittens said:

Does Furman need a new campus? 

There are plenty of "name" (and other reputable) universities that have branches all around the country.  I can't see Cornell (which has multiple locations) opening a branch in Greenville, but Northeastern U. in Boston has a branch in Charlotte, and surely there are others.  I think that expanding and improving higher education through this site is a great idea.

Not many schools “need” a new campus, but if you’re looking to offer additional programs, that requires space. I specified Furman simply because they’re a great a university, with a great endowment to afford such expansion. For all I care the University of South Carolina, which should’ve opened a Greenville campus decades ago, could be an option. Personally, I wouldn’t opt for an out-of-state school to open a satellite campus, but that’s just me. 

And, because Furman is private, you don’t have to worry about the government providing much funds. 

Edited May 10, 2019 by GVLover

[cabelagent]

5 hours ago, PuppiesandKittens said:

A downtown university campus would be a good thing to do; I like your idea.  Too bad Climpson already built its auto center elsewhere, but perhaps this could be a site for other programs.

Get it right....it's Clemson.   Clemson University....2018 Football National Champions. 

[Exile]

It was pointed out on another board (not UP) that Latin speakers--including Cicero, Caesar, Virgil, Seneca and all those luminaries, not to mention Augustine--all routinely put a secondary "p" between "m" and "s". So Clem(p)son graduates are in outstanding company. "Clemzon" is barbaric.

[Danmire]

I just wrote to my Council Member in support of this project,  I think this is a transformational type of project and to see it fail because of the shortsightedness of some Council Members would be a serious blackeye to Greenville  County for the future.  I hope they come to their senses.

[PuppiesandKittens]

A lot of my relatives went to Climpson, worked there and lived nearby.  I'm a big fan.  It's a great school- in my view, the best in South Carolina.  It's just how I've heard the name pronounced for my entire life.  (I didn't go there.)

The idea of using the County Square site for higher education is great.

The county should just work out its own plan to move its and the state's offices offsite and should just sell the site to the highest bidder, and stay out of it.

Edited May 10, 2019 by PuppiesandKittens

[CLT_sc]

Cicero and the others are rolling in their graves being compared with a Pickens County football school.

As for being the “best in S.C.”, for some programs, I would agree.  For others, no.  Why?  Furman and Wofford have some of the best educational programs around.  Students are taught by terminal degreed professors  in small class settings.   Getting through one of these schools is tough.

USC has one of the best business schools around.  It is difficult to gain acceptance into the school and produces graduates with scores on professional exams and grad school exams that are at the high end.  Along with Wofford, it is the only school to produce self made billionaires. Other programs at Carolina are simply best in class, one is the Honors College, best in the country.  Athletic wise, it has the best athletic department in S.C., teams at USC consistently finish higher than any other SC school across all of athletics. 

Besides, it is hard to be considered the “best” when a school has not produced a Rhodes Scholar while others have produced multiple scholars.  

So, a good school, yes...no question, the “best”, not a chance.

[motonenterprises]

15 hours ago, cabelagent said:

Get it right....it's Clemson.   Clemson University....2018 Football National Champions. 

Go Tigers!

[cabelagent]

2 hours ago, PuppiesandKittens said:

A lot of my relatives went to Climpson, worked there and lived nearby.  I'm a big fan.  It's a great school- in my view, the best in South Carolina.  It's just how I've heard the name pronounced for my entire life.  (I didn't go there.)

The idea of using the County Square site for higher education is great.

The county should just work out its own plan to move its and the state's offices offsite and should just sell the site to the highest bidder, and stay out of it.

LOL...had to give you a hard time with alteration for name of a great university.  I (also) hope future plans for county square development go in the direction that will be best for the city & citizens of the county. 

[Exile]

2 hours ago, CLT_sc said:

Cicero and the others are rolling in their graves being compared with a Pickens County football school.

As for being the “best in S.C.”, for some programs, I would agree.  For others, no.  Why?  Furman and Wofford have some of the best educational programs around.  Students are taught by terminal degreed professors  in small class settings.   Getting through one of these schools is tough.

USC has one of the best business schools around.  It is difficult to gain acceptance into the school and produces graduates with scores on professional exams and grad school exams that are at the high end.  Along with Wofford, it is the only school to produce self made billionaires. Other programs at Carolina are simply best in class, one is the Honors College, best in the country.  Athletic wise, it has the best athletic department in S.C., teams at USC consistently finish higher than any other SC school across all of athletics. 

Besides, it is hard to be considered the “best” when a school has not produced a Rhodes Scholar while others have produced multiple scholars.  

So, a good school, yes...no question, the “best”, not a chance.

I won't belabor this digression, except to say that, yes, there's a lot to be said for being taught by terminally degreed profs. None of my kids opted for Clemson, partially for that very reason.

But to link school quality with number of Rhodes Scholars is like linking football program quality to the number of Heisman winners, of which Clemson also has none (and Alabama too, until very recently), and which the Rhodes Trust itself explicitly disavows.

[GvilleSC]

LOL. 

Someone around here has suggest that the Panthers should look to a struggling collegiate program for inspiration on their professional facilities. Only a gamecock fan could be that over confident. 

[CLT_sc]

1 minute ago, GvilleSC said:

LOL. 

Someone around here has suggest that the Panthers should look to a struggling collegiate program for inspiration on their professional facilities. Only a gamecock fan could be that over confident. 

You are struggling to link on field performance in a legit conference with facilities. 

The Panthers should look at the McNair Practice Complex.  Even funnier, the facility is named after a USC alum and founder of a NFL team, the Houston Texans.  So, yes, there are NFL connections. And, yes, it is a great facility.  

Only a Clemson fan could be so arrogant to make such an ignorant statement.

[CLT_sc]

10 minutes ago, Exile said:

I won't belabor this digression, except to say that, yes, there's a lot to be said for being taught by terminally degreed profs. None of my kids opted for Clemson, partially for that very reason.

But to link school quality with number of Rhodes Scholars is like linking football program quality to the number of Heisman winners, of which Clemson also has none (and Alabama too, until very recently), and which the Rhodes Trust itself explicitly disavows.

Except, the Rhodes Scholar is only one comparison which was used as an example.

Clemson is a good school as is Carolina.  To say one is “best in state” would suggest no comparisons with other schools.  Carolina, Wofford, Furman all have more Rhodes Scholars, USC routinely generates more research funding, Wofford and USC have produced self made billionaires, and the list goes on.  Furman has a huge endowment which enables the school to do things that others can’t.  

So, I would not hold one over the others as “best”.  In the end, the best school is where a student feels the best and will thrive.  

I have never heard statements  like that in NC even with Duke and Chapel Hill, which are honestly at another level over Clemson and USC.  Chapel Hill generates tons of research, produces Rhodes Scholars, as well as  a lot of leaders. But, you don’t hear anyone in NC say Chapel Hill is the best or Duke is the best or Davidson or Wake or State. They all have their strengths as do the S.C. schools.

Only in Upstate SC will you see a website for the area describe Clemson as “elite” and Wofford and Furman as “exceptional”,  that is a joke.

[apaladin]

County council now has a proposal to kill the project. Forgive if this has been posted elsewhere. Hard to believe its already been a year sine this was announced and zero has been done.

https://www.greenvilleonline.com/story/news/2019/05/07/greenville-county-council-weigh-plan-kill-county-squares-1-billion-dollar-redevelopment/1133939001/

 

[vicupstate]

That was posted previously, which is what re-ignited the thread.  

It is not that nothing has been done, it is that the  part that is SEEN hasn't yet been done.  Even if this proceeds, it will still be a few months before demolition starts.     

[Exile]

34 minutes ago, CLT_sc said:

Except, the Rhodes Scholar is only one comparison which was used as an example.

Clemson is a good school as is Carolina.  To say one is “best in state” would suggest no comparisons with other schools.  Carolina, Wofford, Furman all have more Rhodes Scholars, USC routinely generates more research funding, Wofford and USC have produced self made billionaires, and the list goes on.  Furman has a huge endowment which enables the school to do things that others can’t.  

So, I would not hold one over the others as “best”.  In the end, the best school is where a student feels the best and will thrive.  

I have never heard statements  like that in NC even with Duke and Chapel Hill, which are honestly at another level over Clemson and USC.  Chapel Hill generates tons of research, produces Rhodes Scholars, as well as  a lot of leaders. But, you don’t hear anyone in NC say Chapel Hill is the best or Duke is the best or Davidson or Wake or State. They all have their strengths as do the S.C. schools.

Only in Upstate SC will you see a website for the area describe Clemson as “elite” and Wofford and Furman as “exceptional”,  that is a joke.

Au contraire:

I live in N.C. and I hear Duke and N.C. alums going at it regularly, and not just about basketball. Truth be known, academically, UNC sports a bit of an inferiority complex vis-a-vis Duke. But whatever; I've made none of the claims you're attributing to others.

And I've put four kids through college; some of whom have gone to grad school, none of them in the Carolinas: lingo like "elite" and "exceptional" is very common (though one of mine did go to a truly elite university).

As the Sharks often say: "I'm out."

[GvilleSC]

1 hour ago, CLT_sc said:

You are struggling to link on field performance in a legit conference with facilities. 

The Panthers should look at the McNair Practice Complex.  Even funnier, the facility is named after a USC alum and founder of a NFL team, the Houston Texans.  So, yes, there are NFL connections. And, yes, it is a great facility.  

Only a Clemson fan could be so arrogant to make such an ignorant statement.

I don’t know, but I’d say that 4 straight playoff appearances, and 2 national titles equate to pretty solid on-field performance. And at the expense of your conference darling. We share at least two common opponents this upcoming season. Let’s see how that turns out. To correct you: Clemson’s practice facilities and football operations center are on par with or above most other elite collegiate programs. It’s an embarrassment of riches right now, and we don’t take it for granted. 

But, you’ve dragged this far enough off topic already. I hope county square redevelopment still happens. The city would be a great navigator if they could somehow obtain the reins. 

[CLT_sc]

16 minutes ago, Exile said:

Au contraire:

I live in N.C. and I hear Duke and N.C. alums going at it regularly, and not just about basketball. Truth be known, academically, UNC sports a bit of an inferiority complex vis-a-vis Duke. But whatever; I've made none of the claims you're attributing to others.

And I've put four kids through college; some of whom have gone to grad school, none of them in the Carolinas: lingo like "elite" and "exceptional" is very common (though one of mine did go to a truly elite university).

As the Sharks often say: "I'm out."

The world of higher ed can be interesting if not corrupt.

I agree that there are “elite” universities like Duke, Emory, Davidson, Stanford, Harvard, Chapel Hill and others.....Clemson is not in that group in any respect.  That is why suggesting it as “elite”  on the upstate website while at the same time calling out Furman and Wofford as inferior or “exceptional” is a joke. 

Honestly, I have never heard Duke and Chapel Hill alums argue over anything but basketball in Charlotte.  I have a lot of Chapel Hill friends who would send their kids to Duke if they had  scholarships.    

[CLT_sc]

Just now, GvilleSC said:

I don’t know, but I’d say that 4 straight playoff appearances, and 2 national titles equate to pretty solid on-field performance. And at the expense of your conference darling. We share at least two common opponents this upcoming season. Let’s see how that turns out. To correct you: Clemson’s practice facilities and football operations center are on par with or above most other elite collegiate programs. It’s an embarrassment of riches right now, and we don’t take it for granted. 

But, you’ve dragged this far enough off topic already. I hope county square redevelopment still happens. The city would be a great navigator if they could somehow obtain the reins. 

Playing  6 of 12 games against private schools does allow you to keep players fresh.  And, that is a huge advantage when other teams are playing legit conference schedules. Besides, your coaching staff is paid more than any other school by far compared with revenue so, yes I would expect to see clemson be good.

 But, even with your “embarrassment of riches”, you still trail Carolina across all athletics in head to head games since 2003, in financial resources and in banners earned this decade.....3 national titles, final four appearance, conference championships.....Carolina is the only school to have a final 4 ranking at season’s in in all 4 major sports this decade.  It’s not a one sport school.

To correct you,  I never mentioned clemson’s Football complex. But, your suggestion that ours is not worthy of a look by Dave Tepper and the Panthers is embarrassingly ignorant of what Carolina has.

to correct you again, clemson was started in this thread earlier by others taking about national titles and proper spelling of clemson.  

[vicupstate]

Let's get back to the topic, please. 

[PuppiesandKittens]

Bring back Bell Tower Mall!

Edited May 11, 2019 by PuppiesandKittens

[CLT_sc]

7 minutes ago, PuppiesandKittens said:

I went to 2 of the schools listed in your list of "elite" universities (or 3, if you count summer school) and there was a big gulf between them.  "Elite" is a very subjective term.  I don't consider myself "elite" or smart and if one of the "elite" schools that I went to is "elite", I shudder to think what's non-"elite".

Clemson has the highest median SAT scores in SC, but it's true that Furman and Wofford aren't far behind: https://www.collegeraptor.com/college-rankings/details/MedianSAT/State/SC.

Clemson overall is 99th based on median SAT scores: https://www.collegeraptor.com/college-rankings/details/MedianSAT

Time for improvement, and perhaps the University Ridge site could be a starting point.

SAT scores are no indication of the quality of a universities’ education.  Carolina has the highest number of applications of any school in SC.    And, it is increasing SAT scores while also adding to incoming classes.  Actual SAT scores are approaching 1,300 for a class of 6,000... much more if you get into the business school.  And, a lot more for the honor’s college.  It has more ranked graduate programs than all other schools in SC combined.  

Wofford and Furman don’t have bridge programs to help manage SAT scores.  If you get into one of these schools, you are in the school.....not tri county tech.