Greenville County Square redevelopment

[johnpro318]

36 minutes ago, PuppiesandKittens said:

vicupstate, there is plenty of underused or vacant land to the west of downtown.  Period.

Look at the density of the area compared to the core of downtown, or the core of basically any urban area.  The density is relatively low.  Yes, land to the west of downtown is owned by someone but all land in the US is owned by someone, so that's irrelevant.  Yes, there are buildings on much of the land, but almost all land in the city of Greenville has something on it, even a parking lot or a toolshed, so that's irrelevant.    The fact that this land is owned by someone and would need to assembled and redeveloped is not a point that I'm disagreeing with.

My point is that the land west of downtown is either vacant or has low-grade, low-density buildings on it that produce little in tax revenue and few opportunities for local residents.  That land to the west of downtown can and should be used for something better, just as land to the south of the core of downtown was underdeveloped until about 2000 and was turned into a better use. 

Moving government offices to that land, perhaps as part of a larger-scale development, could help spur improvements for the neighborhood, both for physical infrastructure and for opportunities for residents.  Yes, gentrification is happening, but there is so much dire poverty in that area that it needs further help.  See Woodside Avenue, which is really close to downtown: in 2013, it was ranked the 8th most dangerous area in the US (https://abcnews.go.com/Business/worst-neighborhoods-violent-crime-us/story?id=19087850) and despite gentrification and everything you point out, in 2018, it was ranked the 6th most dangerous area in the US (the article is online; I can't find it at the moment).

I'm certainly not a social scientist, and I dislike government generally, but having new construction, jobs and access to government services in the area would likely help.   (Yes, this would also require new efforts to protect low-income residents from being uprooted due to gentrification, but providing jobs and other opportunities would help in the long run.)

Name some locations tho. 

[PuppiesandKittens]

24 minutes ago, johnpro318 said:

Name some locations tho. 

* Along West Washington Street, towards the train station

* West side of Academy

* To the west of the AFGA building

* Northwest of Hampton Avenue and west of the library, between downtown and Poinsett Highway (there are plenty of low-grade commercial buildings in this area)

* West of the West End

* Around the train station

To add: none of these are perfect locations.  All of them would require assembling land, community approval, and perhaps higher costs than the Halton Road site.  The full package for any of these sites may not be as favorable as elsewhere.  But I'd just generally prefer one of them.  But upon further analysis, of course I'm open to differing views.

Also, if I were Haywood Mall, I would want a corporate tenant in the old Fluor buildings, like SouthPark Mall as high-end office space around it.  Not government offices.

Edited May 20, 2019 by PuppiesandKittens

[vicupstate]

10 years ago, you would be right. Not today.  You are not going to buy 10-25 parcels on the cheap in West Greenville. Not going to happen.  You will be lucky to even find that many willing adjacent buyers even at a market rate price.  

 http://looplink.sc.cbre.us/xNet/Looplink/TmplEngine/ListingProfilePage.aspx?stid=cbre/sc&LID=15240428&LL=true&UOMListing=&UOMMoneyCurrency=&RentPer=PY&SRID=0&IP=false

$1 million an acre. Not on a main thorughfare. Zoned low density residential. Surrounded by other Residential so the state law against spot zoning would come into play, if you tried to rezone it.

http://looplink.sc.cbre.us/xNet/Looplink/TmplEngine/ListingProfilePage.aspx?stid=cbre/sc&LID=6636139&LL=true&UOMListing=&UOMMoneyCurrency=&RentP

$1,6 million an acre plus you have to clear it.  Still need the rest of the block to even get to 4 acres. 

https://www.realtor.com/realestateandhomes-detail/214-N-Leach-St_Greenville_SC_29601_M50158-86669?view=qv

1.835 million per acre.  The price is too high, but illustrates that people are not seling on the cheap in W. Greenville any longer.  

https://kdsproperties.com/properties/847-w-washington-street-greenville-sc-29601/

$300k for less than a third of an acre, or $! million per acre.   

 

Woodside Ave. is out of the  city except for the Mill itself, which already has redevelopment plans.  Even if you annexed some adacent areas, you would be  clearing out probably 40-60 low income homes to get a sufficient parcel. That isn't going to fly. I also don't see County Council being a 'pioneer' either.  Your idea would work in the Poinsett corridor, and I think that would be a great idea. I even posted that idea myself  a few pages back. The only true impediment I see is a rather difficult anenxation.  Same thing with Judson Mill.       

 

[gman430]

This thread has gone nuckin futs.  

[PuppiesandKittens]

30 minutes ago, gman430 said:

This thread has gone nuckin futs.  

Agreed.  I'll stand back and let others continue the discussion.  No interest in getting to an argument--we're all on the same page in wanting the best for the community, fortunately.

Vicupstate, I recognize and appreciate your strong knowledge of the issue, and thank you for adding insights that I didn't know of.

Edited May 20, 2019 by PuppiesandKittens

[vicupstate]

Thanks, Puppies and Kittens. No offense taken nor intended on my end.  I guess we will see tomorrow where this all goes from here. 

[vicupstate]

Greenville County Councilman claimed multiple Primary residences, Charged back taxes from Greenville/Anderson

Speaking of County Council ...

[GVLover]

On 5/18/2019 at 7:52 AM, vicupstate said:

^^ I wish I shared your optimism that this will not be killed outright.  This would be a great opportunity for  the city and county and state to  look at office space holistically. That said I don't think the city is ready to spend that kind of money when there are several other things they are doing such as Unity Park and the potential Conference center/museum.  

I hope what is classified as “optimism” is more so having confidence the county council will do the right thing. Is it known how regularly members of the city and county council communicate? I’d hope Mayor White, among others, is applying pressure on those thinking of killing this project because it has a huge affect on the City of Greenville itself.  

I will say this: the more I read and hear about how bad the council bungled this, the more I feel certain people should be replaced. I don’t mean to be problematic here, but the county needs progressive leaders (progressive in the sense of being forward-thinking, not necessarily politically ). If the county had multiple Mayor White-esque members, we could actually get things done but instead we have people who aren’t focused, who don’t get the big picture or frankly don’t want Greenville Co to progress in any sense. It’s really embarrassing.

[gman430]

33 minutes ago, vicupstate said:

Greenville County Councilman claimed multiple Primary residences, Charged back taxes from Greenville/Anderson

Speaking of County Council ...

Somebody go to the meeting tomorrow and bring this issue up.  I’m almost tempted to. 

Edited May 20, 2019 by gman430

[gman430]

This is getting good: https://www.foxcarolina.com/news/activists-urge-greenville-co-council-to-move-forward-on-county/article_8dfd86c6-7b1b-11e9-bc57-032942b13f8e.html 

[PuppiesandKittens]

Great.  "Activists" putting pressure on government. 

[gman430]

Latest rendering: 

Edited May 21, 2019 by gman430

[Den2Gvl]

6 minutes ago, gman430 said:

Latest rendering: 

Wow, where did you find that? 

[gman430]

7 minutes ago, Den2Gvl said:

Wow, where did you find that? 

GVLToday news article this morning. Rendering was provided to them from Wakefield Beasley Architects. 

Edited May 21, 2019 by gman430

[Den2Gvl]

Found it right as you replied. Wow!

https://gvltoday.6amcity.com/the-future-of-the-county-square-redevelopment-project/

[GVLover]

[Danmire]

I see Willis Meadows is opposed to the development.  I e-mailed him with my support for it a couple of weeks ago as a resident in his district.  Now I see why he didn't right back.

[GvilleSC]

Granted, this is all just visions and marketing material at this point. But, there should be folks on here who are happy with the height shown in these renderings. I sure hope the council doesn't destroy this opportunity. 

[Den2Gvl]

How many votes do they need to kill this project? I think I remember reading that for approval there would have to be at least two more votes than the opposing side, is that correct? So to pass anything it would have to be 8 against 4...? 

[GvilleSC]

2 minutes ago, Den2Gvl said:

How many votes do they need to kill this project? I think I remember reading that for approval there would have to be at least two more votes than the opposing side, is that correct? So to pass anything it would have to be 8 against 4...? 

Or 7 - 5?

[vicupstate]

A  vote of 6-6 means it doesn't pass, so I assume a 7-5 vote would be required to pass the ordinance, which means the project is cancelled.   

[Den2Gvl]

1 minute ago, vicupstate said:

A  vote of 6-6 means it doesn't pass, so I assume a 7-5 vote would be required to pass the ordinance, which means the project is cancelled.   

So for this project to not get canceled, we need 6-6? 

[gman430]

I believe it has to be at least an 8-4 vote for it to pass. Anything less (7-5 or 6-6) means it does not. 

Edited May 21, 2019 by gman430

[gman430]

Greenville County Council chairman Butch Kirven said the county had already committed $3 million to the project and signed contracts. However, half of the county council recently opposed the billion dollar development since the unanimous vote to approve new changes.

However, adopting the alternative plan would mean ending the contract with RocaPoint Partners, which would cost the county $10 million and halt any further development at County Square for ten years per stipulations.

Source: https://www.wyff4.com/article/greenville-county-council-to-vote-on-alternative-plan-to-redevelop-county-square/27533746?utm_campaign=WYFF&utm_content=5ce4187372c13d0001ebaeb9&utm_medium=twitter&utm_source=trueAnthem%3A+New+Content

**Seven votes are needed to pass the alternative plan according to the above news article**

Edited May 21, 2019 by gman430

[GVLover]

5 minutes ago, gman430 said:

Greenville County Council chairman Butch Kirven said the county had already committed $3 million to the project and signed contracts. However, half of the county council recently opposed the billion dollar development since the unanimous vote to approve new changes.

However, adopting the alternative plan would mean ending the contract with RocaPoint Partners, which would cost the county $10 million and halt any further development at County Square for ten years per stipulations.

Source: https://www.wyff4.com/article/greenville-county-council-to-vote-on-alternative-plan-to-redevelop-county-square/27533746?utm_campaign=WYFF&utm_content=5ce4187372c13d0001ebaeb9&utm_medium=twitter&utm_source=trueAnthem%3A+New+Content

Rephrase: Instead of eventually making upwards of $500m over 20-years in property tax alone, the County Council may opt to pay RocaPoint $10m (on top of the $3m already spent) and see no development of County Square for 10 years. Ridiculous. 

So yeah, $13 million dollars the drain when all the county had to do is have foresight for once. 

I’m trying to remain confident about this, but now that the day is here.. I’m not feeling so great about it.