Greenville County Square redevelopment

[gman430]

I tend to agree. This site is part of downtown now and due to that should be included with the urban DRB review panel. I feel like the county would be making a big mistake here with taking the short road instead of the middle one the city has offered. I’m still worried about the county throwing away the $26 million for the museum/conference center but it might just be a bluff on their part. Who knows.

Edited January 16, 2020 by gman430

[transplant08]

7 minutes ago, gman430 said:

 I’m still worried about the county throwing away the $26 million for the museum/conference center but it might just be a bluff on their part. Who knows.

I still don't see the county's leverage with funding for the museum/conference center. Aughtry owns the parcel and Hughes owns the adjacent ones behind it. If they don't get money from city/county govts, they'll eventually put something really big and shiny there on their own.

[gman430]

8 minutes ago, transplant08 said:

I still don't see the county's leverage with funding for the museum/conference center. Aughtry owns the parcel and Hughes owns the adjacent ones behind it. If they don't get money from city/county govts, they'll eventually put something really big and shiny there on their own.

The developers claim they can’t build the project without $26 million each from city, county, and state. 

[gvegascple]

10 minutes ago, gman430 said:

The developers claim they can’t build the project without $26 million each from city, county, and state. 

This will go down as one of the biggest screw ups by the county in quite a while.  I am thinking of how the Greenville Mall looked for so long (or even now actually) instead of what we could have had, along with all the lost tax revenue, and the loss of the convention center.   If the county cant have it their (unreasonable) way, then they want to blow everything up and screw the citizens of Greenville over their pettiness.  The county council should be held personally responsible for this if it tanks.  

[transplant08]

16 minutes ago, gman430 said:

The developers claim they can’t build the project without $26 million each from city, county, and state. 

Ummm... they're developers. What do you expect them to say?

[Den2Gvl]

48 minutes ago, GvilleSC said:

This site absolutely needs to be under DRB review. That should not be negotiable from the City's perspective. I feel like a broken record on this, but the City needs to actively expand the boundaries of the DRB influence to keep up with Greenville's urban growth and expansion. Look at the AC Hotel. The developer has tried several times to modify the initial design to include cheaper materials or less complex facades. Without oversight, developers WILL find a way to build their buildings for the cheapest possible price and we'll be left with the results for our lifetimes.

Completely agree. I'm still confused about the DRB exemption. Why would the County want this change? Is it to allow the developer to use cheaper materials/design? 

[gvegascple]

34 minutes ago, Den2Gvl said:

Completely agree. I'm still confused about the DRB exemption. Why would the County want this change? Is it to allow the developer to use cheaper materials/design? 

I keep asking myself why the county is so intertwined with and beholden to the developer on this.  They dont seem to be providing any guidance or guard rails and have on several occasions mirrored the developers requests that seem to be to the detriment of Greenville.   If the city wasnt involved this would apparently be a free for all for this developer.  what gives?

Edited January 16, 2020 by gvegascple

[gman430]

19 minutes ago, transplant08 said:

Ummm... they're developers. What do you expect them to say?

Lol. Good point. Just cancel the whole project and put a Walmart on site with a huge parking lot in front. No trees allowed also.  

[vicupstate]

25 minutes ago, transplant08 said:

Ummm... they're developers. What do you expect them to say?

If you want this project to have a Conference  Center and/or the museums, then the public money is required. Neither one of those things would break even without subsidy. 

If you just want a hotel and residential, then no you would not need nor would you get a public subsidy. 

[ingvegas]

From the article:

County Councilman Ennis Fant said Tuesday. "It's either 3.5 million square feet with green space, trails and organization. Or 6 million square feet of chaos with nothing. Do you have a choice, really?"

I'm still confused by the argument. So Ennis threatens our county with "six million feet of chaos" because of six stories and oversight from the DRB on pre-existing requirements? Wouldn't that 3.5 million sq. feet be more valuable with green space, trails, and organization anyway?  How can he threaten "chaos" if any development is still required to follow DRB rules?

Someone needs to run against this guy. https://www.wyff4.com/article/greenville-county-councilman-ennis-fant-owes-dollar55k-in-property-taxes-anderson-county-assessors-office-says/27498514

 

 

 

[gman430]

Here is the official letter from the county administrator: https://www.scribd.com/document/443078111/Jan-13-2020-Letter-From-Joe-Kernell-to-John-McDonough 
 

The architect for design approval would be chosen by both the city and county. If there is any disagreement with the approval process then it would go before city council to get sorted out.

Zones B and C with one building each at 13-18 stories. 

The point he makes about multi family developments being exempt from review in the central business district is interesting to say the least. 
 

Good pdf file here also: https://www.greenvillecounty.org/pdf/NeighborMtgFinal.pdf

Edited January 16, 2020 by gman430

[apaladin]

Geesh, what a mess. Build a Walmart. 

[motonenterprises]

Heck no! No Walmarts. I can't stand them things. Give me a Target over them any day. Just feels different. Lol. I believe this will get built though.

Edited January 17, 2020 by motonenterprises

[gman430]

We want Walmart and a strip shopping center with Sally’s Beauty Supply.  Something like the one on White Horse Road would be really nice here.

Edited January 17, 2020 by gman430

[GvilleSC]

14 hours ago, gman430 said:

The point he makes about multi family developments being exempt from review in the central business district is interesting to say the least. 

Isn't that because all developments in the CBD are under review anyhow?

Edited January 17, 2020 by GvilleSC

[motonenterprises]

1 hour ago, gman430 said:

We want Walmart and a strip shopping center with Sally’s Beauty Supply.  Something like the one on White Horse Road would be really nice here.

Heck no. It ain't that type of party. Lol.

[distortedlogic]

4 hours ago, gman430 said:

We want Walmart and a strip shopping center with Sally’s Beauty Supply.  Something like the one on White Horse Road would be really nice here.

Don't forget the Cash Pawn or Payday Loan,  ABC, a gas station, and a couple fast food establishments. Maybe we can even get a couple empty store fronts (like a closed BILO) to really make it authentic! 

Edited January 17, 2020 by distortedlogic

[gman430]

"It is a disgrace. One- that the city of Greenville would take 60 acres and spend up to $73 million to create a park when people are sleeping on benches on Main Street," said Nwangaza.
 

https://www.foxcarolina.com/news/greenville-residents-voice-concerns-about-affordable-housing-with-county-square/article_ddad7e66-38d4-11ea-8a09-ffd63f76581f.html
 

 

[distortedlogic]

9 minutes ago, gman430 said:

"It is a disgrace. One- that the city of Greenville would take 60 acres and spend up to $73 million to create a park when people are sleeping on benches on Main Street," said Nwangaza.
 

https://www.foxcarolina.com/news/greenville-residents-voice-concerns-about-affordable-housing-with-county-square/article_ddad7e66-38d4-11ea-8a09-ffd63f76581f.html
 

 

He proposes using the money to redo the mills for affordable housing. Is he asking the city to build apts they will probably have to take a loss on? That doesn't make any sense to me. The park will be a public space and asset for everyone in the community and even in the upstate. We don't need to have Greenville getting in the business of building homes for people that the city will lose money on; that would not be a good situatin fo anyone. Perhaps he would be better putting his efforts into finding out why these people are sleeping on benches downtown and helping them get back on their feet instead of just looking for a city to build them a home that they won't won't have any skin in. 

[GvilleSC]

Umm, Poe Mill was destroyed by fire. What is she talking about?

The beef with the City makes no sense to me. Currently under construction right now is new housing on the former Scott Towers site, and the City is ACTIVELY working to include "affordable housing" into the County Square proposal. All of this helps alleviate some pressure as the City works to address affordability in a sustainable way.  She heads up the 'Malcolm X Center for Self Determination.' There doesn't seem to be a lot of self determination (and self reliance) involved with the battles she choses to fight. 

Furthermore, it's my understanding that the money for the park is coming from a source that cannot be used for just anything. 

Edited January 17, 2020 by GvilleSC

[motonenterprises]

53 minutes ago, distortedlogic said:

Don't forget the Cash Pawn or Payday Loan,  ABC, a gas station, and a couple fast food establishments. Maybe we can even get a couple empty store fronts (like a closed BILO) to really make it authentic! 

Nope. Lol

[motonenterprises]

52 minutes ago, gman430 said:

"It is a disgrace. One- that the city of Greenville would take 60 acres and spend up to $73 million to create a park when people are sleeping on benches on Main Street," said Nwangaza.
 

https://www.foxcarolina.com/news/greenville-residents-voice-concerns-about-affordable-housing-with-county-square/article_ddad7e66-38d4-11ea-8a09-ffd63f76581f.html
 

 

Most of the time there is usually a reason they're sleeping on benches on Main Street. There are a few truly down on their luck, but the majority have some serious issues to where family has even separated from them. I've tried to help a couple. They usually had an issue with drugs, alcohol, or both. They didn't want a job or directions to the nearest shelter, or anywhere they could get help.

[gvegascple]

4 hours ago, GvilleSC said:

Umm, Poe Mill was destroyed by fire. What is she talking about?

The beef with the City makes no sense to me. Currently under construction right now is new housing on the former Scott Towers site, and the City is ACTIVELY working to include "affordable housing" into the County Square proposal. All of this helps alleviate some pressure as the City works to address affordability in a sustainable way.  She heads up the 'Malcolm X Center for Self Determination.' There doesn't seem to be a lot of self determination (and self reliance) involved with the battles she choses to fight. 

Furthermore, it's my understanding that the money for the park is coming from a source that cannot be used for just anything. 

I agree.  Its a flashy and dramatic statement that has no logical support or at least is very one dimensional and short sighted.   The affordable housing planned plus the recurring tax revenue from new developments has the potential to be of far greater help to homeless (which is a problem with enough nuance that simply a pile of cash wont fix).   It does remind us of helping the homeless if anyone has forgotten about it,  a dramatic statement does gets peoples attention.  Re purposing a mill is probably a magnitude higher in expense than just building from the ground up as far as creating a place for those homeless that want a place.  Any money would go much farther elsewhere than re purposing mills.  It is a romantic idea though, it actually sounds really cool.  I just dont think its the most cost effective way to attack the housing issue and there are probably a host of other issues that could pop up based on the unique design of a mill and we are probably giving this way more thought that she did when she made that statement.

[gman430]

https://www.greenvillesc.gov/AgendaCenter/ViewFile/Item/6666?fileID=32370

[cabelagent]

1 hour ago, gman430 said:

https://www.greenvillesc.gov/AgendaCenter/ViewFile/Item/6666?fileID=32370

Wow....90+ pages.  Please read it gman & report back to us