NC Civil Rights

[CLTProductions]

7 minutes ago, vicupstate said:

You underestimate the GOP's deviousness and you are totally missing their true agenda. 

It is fully obvious now that this is not now, nor was it ever about bathrooms.  If it were they would have been happy with the repeal of THAT part. They weren't. They STILL weren't happy with a FULL repeal. 

The whole reason HB2 came into existence was to create a wedge issue to allow the GOP to benefit politically.  HB2 wins them fervent supporters and keeps them in power. The purely emotional appeal prevents a logical discourse on the actual issue. When the new lines are drawn, you can count on this issue being used to minimize the damage in the special elections.

Speaking of which, don't expect the new lines to completely turn the tables of power. The lines will be adjusted but only as little as they can get away with, unless the court itself draws the lines.  That is possible but not likely. 

I know exactly what their true agenda is and I am saying that nothing is permanent. History will course correct, always does. May not be overnight, but social change is a matter of when, not if. 

[49er]

Charlotte, South Carolina sounds awfully good about now. We are geographically closer to Columbia anyway. 

[elrodvt]

1 minute ago, 49er said:

Charlotte, South Carolina sounds awfully good about now. We are geographically closer to Columbia anyway. 

You do realize it took a massacre to finally remove the confederate flag from their state capital right?  NC is terrible but SC is even worse. Unless all you care about is business and not people's basic civil liberties - which does seem to be the position many here take if you strip it down (having got theirs of course...).

[Guest]

5 minutes ago, elrodvt said:

You do realize it took a massacre to finally remove the confederate flag from their state capital right?  NC is terrible but SC is even worse. Unless all you care about is business and not people's basic civil liberties - which does seem to be the position many here take if you strip it down (having got theirs of course...).

Then we just got to secede in general. 

Charlotte MSA by itself would be 37th in GDP, 34th in population, 47th in sq miles of area among states. We'd probably have 5 electoral college votes to boot. Then maybe we could get some Federal $$

[elrodvt]

Just now, ricky_davis_fan_21 said:

Then we just got to secede in general. 

Charlotte MSA by itself would be 37th in GDP, 34th in population, 47th in sq miles of area. 

That works! Or Join Colorado. I like their tax laws and business atmosphere. Just need a worm hole or something to join up geographically;-)

We should be attractive enough to draw businesses without tax bribery. A charlotte MSA might be able to do that fairly quickly.

Of course we all know this will NEVER EVER happen. It's fun to dream though.

[Guest]

9 minutes ago, elrodvt said:

That works! Or Join Colorado. I like their tax laws and business atmosphere. Just need a worm hole or something to join up geographically;-)

We should be attractive enough to draw businesses without tax bribery. A charlotte MSA might be able to do that fairly quickly.

Of course we all know this will NEVER EVER happen. It's fun to dream though.

Northeastern Ohio was the Western Connecticut Reserve for about 4 years. Sillier things have happened. There is currently a secession movement in Northern California and Southern Oregon to become the State of Jefferson, hell Hawaii might secede from the union. I say we become the state of Mecklenburg and stick it to the state government that likes to refer to us as "The Great State of Mecklenburg" 

[cltbwimob]

Secession is possible, but it would be hard.  Although I think it would easily pass in a referendum in Meck County, both the US Congress and the state legislature would also have to approve.  I can't see the congress allowing that right now considering the group in power, and I can't see the state legislature ever allowing that because we are a big time tax donor to the rest of the state.  I wanna say that our state tax receipts exceed our costs by something like 50%.  So while they hate Charlotte with every ounce of their being, they love the revenue windfall that Charlotte provides the state.   The state legislature truly does abuse Charlotte.

[Guest]

3 minutes ago, cltbwimob said:

Secession is possible, but it would be hard.  Although I think it would easily pass in a referendum in Meck County, both the US Congress and the state legislature would also have to approve.  I can't see the congress allowing that right now considering the group in power, and I can't see the state legislature ever allowing that because we are a big time tax donor to the rest of the state.  I wanna say that our state tax receipts exceed our costs by something like 50%.  So while they hate Charlotte with every ounce of their being, they love the revenue windfall that Charlotte provides the state.   The state legislature truly does abuse Charlotte.

Well maybe an attempt at secession would get their attention at least.

[CLT704]

On 19/12/2016 at 11:43 AM, ricky_davis_fan_21 said:

I'm actually expecting a very "Coincidental" jobs announcement as soon as HB2 is repealed. I think someone corporate and very influential had a hand in this sudden reversal. 

Cough, cough.

[15895]

I'm just going to move plan on moving. Which I never planned on but other places are looking more attractive. 

[Guest]

5 minutes ago, CLT704 said:

Cough, cough.

Yea... So now I'm worried about 1,700 jobs not coming to Charlotte. Notice how Roy Cooper said "Business Leaders" had a hand in the bill.

[CLT704]

3 minutes ago, ricky_davis_fan_21 said:

Yea... So now I'm worried about 1,700 jobs not coming to Charlotte. Notice how Roy Cooper said "Business Leaders" had a hand in the bill.

Merrill Lynch? 

[vicupstate]

1 hour ago, Jayvee said:

I know exactly what their true agenda is and I am saying that nothing is permanent. History will course correct, always does. May not be overnight, but social change is a matter of when, not if. 

If you think 'when' will or was going be 6 months from now, you are mistaken. 

The GOP has shown they take no prisoners. They don't have to obtain power, they merely have to maintain it, a far easier proposition.  Cooper may have won but so did Dan Forest.     

[cltbwimob]

57 minutes ago, ricky_davis_fan_21 said:

Well maybe an attempt at secession would get their attention at least.

I wonder if that would be a good idea.  I would of course like for Charlotte to give a big FU to the state, if only symbolically, but I don't think such a move would push the legislature to pay more attention to our needs as a city.  In fact, I suspect it would have the opposite effect and the state would move to tighten the screws even more.

One concept that I think should be explored though is the concept of a federal law creating semi-autonomous cities whereby the city would still be a part of the state, but would be imbued with certain state level powers within its own borders.  Under such a hypothetical arrangement, the city could levy and distribute its own taxes in lieu of state taxes and it could veto state laws that it felt were too onerous or in conflict with its own interests (I.e. Charlotte could have used its veto powers to nullify HB2 within its borders).

I do not know how to best structure the law, but here are a couple of requirements I think would be in order:

1.  The city must have a population greater than 500,000 or 5% of the overall statewide population whichever is lower, or the city would need to be the core city in one of the top 50 MSAs.

2.  The issue would have to be approved in a citywide referendum.

3.  The state could have no say in the matter.  The law would be a federal law, and the decision would be made on a local level.  

I think such an arrangement could effectively stop the abuses we see from Dillon's rule states like NC where the state continuously slaps cities around while benefitting from the tax revenue windfall the cities provide (and knowing that the cities have no recourse).

[SgtCampsalot]

10 minutes ago, cltbwimob said:

One concept that I think should be explored though is the concept of semi-autonomous cities whereby the city would still be a part of the state, but would be imbued with certain state level powers within its own borders.  Under such a hypothetical arrangement, the city could levy and distribute its own taxes in lieu of state taxes and it could veto state laws that it felt were too onerous or in conflict with its own interests (I.e. Charlotte could have used its veto powers to nullify HB2 within its borders).

IMO this is a model the most successful "states" go by. Switzerland is similar to this (though their federal taxes are distributed to the local entities with free reign). The idea of the umbrella "nation-state" is still an experiment. I'm no fan of labels or anything, but to paraphrase Pat McCrory: "I like things to be handled at the lowest level of government possible for any particular circumstance."

[DMann]

"the lowest level of government possible for any particular circumstance"  And we know the NCGA is the lowest of the low.

[elrodvt]

 

8 minutes ago, SgtCampsalot said:

IMO this is a model the most successful "states" go by. Switzerland is similar to this (though their federal taxes are distributed to the local entities with free reign). The idea of the umbrella "nation-state" is still an experiment. I'm no fan of labels or anything, but to paraphrase Pat McCrory: "I like things to be handled at the lowest level of government possible for any particular circumstance."

Nice one!

Pat McCrory paraphrases are becoming as rare as clean coal plants.

[CLT2014]

1 hour ago, ricky_davis_fan_21 said:

Yea... So now I'm worried about 1,700 jobs not coming to Charlotte. Notice how Roy Cooper said "Business Leaders" had a hand in the bill.

I'd guess Jacksonville, FL is the back up location and will probably announce an expansion in Q1.

[SgtCampsalot]

He is truly the king of the smarmies.

[kermit]

1 hour ago, CLT704 said:

Merrill Lynch? 

It does line up with the 12/30 announcement from Lincoln Harris.

[kermit]

1 hour ago, cltbwimob said:

I wonder if that would be a good idea.  I would of course like for Charlotte to give a big FU to the state, if only symbolically, but I don't think such a move would push the legislature to pay more attention to our needs as a city.  In fact, I suspect it would have the opposite effect and the state would move to tighten the screws even more.

One concept that I think should be explored though is the concept of a federal law creating semi-autonomous cities whereby the city would still be a part of the state, but would be imbued with certain state level powers within its own borders.  Under such a hypothetical arrangement, the city could levy and distribute its own taxes in lieu of state taxes and it could veto state laws that it felt were too onerous or in conflict with its own interests (I.e. Charlotte could have used its veto powers to nullify HB2 within its borders).

I do not know how to best structure the law, but here are a couple of requirements I think would be in order:

1.  The city must have a population greater than 500,000 or 5% of the overall statewide population whichever is lower, or the city would need to be the core city in one of the top 50 MSAs.

2.  The issue would have to be approved in a citywide referendum.

3.  The state could have no say in the matter.  The law would be a federal law, and the decision would be made on a local level.  

I think such an arrangement could effectively stop the abuses we see from Dillon's rule states like NC where the state continuously slaps cities around while benefitting from the tax revenue windfall the cities provide (and knowing that the cities have no recourse).

Lots of urban scholars have been talking about exactly this to provide more governing autonomy for the nation's economic engines -- all of which are seeing underinvestment from their states. Of course academics these days are as popular as vegans ata pigpicking but....

the irony here is by starving cities of investment the GOP is pomoting a very progressive tax policy at the geographic scale (taking from wealthy cities and giving to impoverished rural areas and small towns) -- striking contrast to their very regressive tax policies at the individual scale. 

[elrodvt]

1 hour ago, kermit said:

Lots of urban scholars have been talking about exactly this to provide more governing autonomy for the nation's economic engines -- all of which are seeing underinvestment from their states. Of course academics these days are as popular as vegans ata pigpicking but....

the irony here is by starving cities of investment the GOP is pomoting a very progressive tax policy at the geographic scale (taking from wealthy cities and giving to impoverished rural areas and small towns) -- striking contrast to their very regressive tax policies at the individual scale. 

Egghead - What we need are more common sense approaches. ;-)

To bring this back to reality. Does anyone expect a new special session the week after christmas or is this dead?

[ah59396]

4 hours ago, AirNostrumMAD said:

I'm just going to move plan on moving. Which I never planned on but other places are looking more attractive. 

I'm on my way out as we speak.  Done with it.  This state has an absolute potential gem in Charlotte that it continues to restrict at every possible level.  I can only imagine what kind of city Charlotte could be with strong local leadership bolstered by a supportive General Assembly.  But I don't expect changes any time soon and I'm tired of waiting.

[Guest]

1 hour ago, elrodvt said:

Egghead - What we need are more common sense approaches. ;-)

To bring this back to reality. Does anyone expect a new special session the week after christmas or is this dead?

6 weeks.

[tarwater]

This debacle is on the front page of the Guardian's world news section, right under Aleppo. We're famous again.