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NC Civil Rights

southslider

By southslider
in Charlotte Coffee House

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Durhamite Hamlet

Durhamite

Posted
Posted
2 hours ago, RaleighHeelsfan said:

Some liberal mo mo at the observer writes an article and we are supposed to believe it? ROTFL

I have never cared about politics until the joke that was 2016...that's when I finally saw what liberals are about...I must say...I have never been so disgusted.

You lie!  I find that conclusion extremely interesting given the new president is a chronic liar and a vault of double talk. I mean really, it so bad folks are brushing it off as Donnie being Donnie.  NC is currently being run by folk in the GA who seem incapable of thinking beyond the county line. Sad!  At least liberals have a calendar and realize it's 2017, things change.

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CarolinaCrown Whistle-Stop

CarolinaCrown

Posted
Posted
3 hours ago, Durhamite said:

You lie!  I find that conclusion extremely interesting given the new president is a chronic liar and a vault of double talk. I mean really, it so bad folks are brushing it off as Donnie being Donnie.  NC is currently being run by folk in the GA who seem incapable of thinking beyond the county line. Sad!  At least liberals have a calendar and realize it's 2017, things change.

:offtopic: You can go into your account settings and block content/posts from individual people. I'd recommend it with that one. I didn't RtrollFan's comment until you quoted it, I had forgotten that person was still here.

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15895 City

15895

Posted
Posted
20 hours ago, RaleighHeelsfan said:

Some liberal mo mo at the observer writes an article and we are supposed to believe it? ROTFL

I have never cared about politics until the joke that was 2016...that's when I finally saw what liberals are about...I must say...I have never been so disgusted.

I've always been engaged in politics because I personally have a vision to make the city/county/state/country a better place.

Voting is such a tangible difference you see on the local level. Referendums, new schools, etc.  

I've never been compelled to get in politics because I'm disgusted over national politics that at the end of the day (for example Clintons emails) isn't a dialogue that moves the country forward versus dialogue on local/state levels.

Its just my opinion, but people really should be interested in politics because they are inspired, not because they are disgusted by, generally, things/controversies that don't matter. 

 

 

Back on topic. I really hope they put HB2 to rest in a way that all parties can agree upon. I think Cooper made a good compromise on HB2 that at least deserves discussion rather than dismissive remarks within 2 hours via tweet 

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Dale City

Dale

Posted
Posted
8 hours ago, AirNostrumMAD said:

I've always been engaged in politics because I personally have a vision to make the city/county/state/country a better place.

Voting is such a tangible difference you see on the local level. Referendums, new schools, etc.  

I've never been compelled to get in politics because I'm disgusted over national politics that at the end of the day (for example Clintons emails) isn't a dialogue that moves the country forward versus dialogue on local/state levels.

Its just my opinion, but people really should be interested in politics because they are inspired, not because they are disgusted by, generally, things/controversies that don't matter. 

 

 

Back on topic. I really hope they put HB2 to rest in a way that all parties can agree upon. I think Cooper made a good compromise on HB2 that at least deserves discussion rather than dismissive remarks within 2 hours via tweet 

He's not compromising. He's killing compromises for political capital. Call it weaponizing potties.

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Dale City

Dale

Posted
Posted
43 minutes ago, southslider said:

^The infamous HB2 was the only legislation obsessed with "potties."  

A compromise now is admirable, but civil rights shouldn't be compromised, especially if it includes a referendum clause.

The opposite is true. Even the Charlotte Observer inadvertently admitted that there was never a need for the prevocational Charlotte ordinance that occasioned HB2.

Force others to accede to your point-of-view and call it "civil rights."

 

 

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elrodvt Burg

elrodvt

Posted
Posted
4 hours ago, Dale said:

The opposite is true. Even the Charlotte Observer inadvertently admitted that there was never a need for the prevocational Charlotte ordinance that occasioned HB2.

Force others to accede to your point-of-view and call it "civil rights."

 

 

If you have an open mind on the topic watch this recent Vice news:  https://news.vice.com/story/watch-the-full-episode-of-trans-youth-from-vice-on-hbo

There was also a great PBS Frontline last year.

Then if you still think a 40% suicide rate isn't a civil rights issue there isn't much more to say.

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CLT704 Hamlet

CLT704

Posted
Posted
53 minutes ago, cjd5050 said:

So how does the suicide rate make it a civil rights issue again?

If a person is killing themselves because they are not treated equally and fairly- whilst having a poor quality of life because of that- it is a civil rights issue. 

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cjd5050 Hamlet

cjd5050

Posted
Posted
22 hours ago, CLT704 said:

If a person is killing themselves because they are not treated equally and fairly- whilst having a poor quality of life because of that- it is a civil rights issue. 

 

The idea that you can legislate away suicidal ideation is just wrong in my honest opinion.  Ireland is one of the most welcoming and inclusive cultures towards trans people and they as well have an alarming high % of suicidal ideation (80%) and suicide attempts (40%) in their trans community.  

I am not advocating GID remaining as a mental disorder but rather saying that the suicidal ideation rate of those with GID is clearly a mental health issue.  This rate, again IMHO, has more to do with society deficiencies and individual mental health than what some people in a distant place enact or exclude on paper.  

The reason I object to the idea of this being a civil rights issue is the concept that delivering those rights is actually a solution.  I don't think it is.  Similar to how civil rights was never the solution for racial issues.  

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cjd5050 Hamlet

cjd5050

Posted
Posted
37 minutes ago, southslider said:

It was once law to use separate facilities by race. How laws address public facilities by gender identity is just the latest battle to make laws less discriminatory by any class of people.

This has nothing to do with the suicidal ideation rate.  If it did, you would see a similar rate when looking it up by race.  That was my point.  

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elrodvt Burg

elrodvt

Posted
Posted
5 minutes ago, cjd5050 said:

This has nothing to do with the suicidal ideation rate.  If it did, you would see a similar rate when looking it up by race.  That was my point.  

Worrying about being beaten up every time you use the bathroom might just lead someone to feel worthless and suicidal? The trans community sure seems to believe that.

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cjd5050 Hamlet

cjd5050

Posted
Posted
45 minutes ago, elrodvt said:

Worrying about being beaten up every time you use the bathroom might just lead someone to feel worthless and suicidal? The trans community sure seems to believe that.

Everything that I have read about the suicidal ideation rate in the trans community is that the numbers are similar regardless of location.  As I mentioned before, the rates are the same in Ireland as they are in the US...while the laws and culture towards the trans community are anything but the same.  So again, how does making it a civil rights issue actually solve the extremely high suicidal ideation rate?  

A poster above said that "If a person is killing themselves because they are not treated equally and fairly- whilst having a poor quality of life because of that- it is a civil rights issue" and I disagreed with that. Multiple studies have shown that Transgender people are often treated extremely poorly by their parents, their families and by society at large.  This leads to problems in school and at work, as well as poverty and increased risk of substance use.  You can't legislate that.  You can't legislate poor treatment or being shunned by family.  While you can legislate how employers treat employees, you can't legislate against being ostracized in the social construct of the workplace.  

You can't legislate people to be nice or accepting.   The Civil Rights Act of 1964 didn't end racism or bigotry.  It just gave rights and protections.  My point here is claiming that this is a civil rights issue is a slap in the face to mental health and the issue of suicide.  

In my opinion the only way to solve the very real and serious issues in the trans community is to change the culture not the laws.  But to do so requires a much deeper and nuanced conversation that almost nobody is willing or capable of having.  

I'll give you an example and my personal take. I am sure I will get 'beat down' for this but there are some smart people on here so maybe they will take pause and consider my perspective.  

I accept Gender dysphoria or gender identity disorder and I think people who face this should not only get the rights that we're discussing but also the supportive care needed for their transition.  I think education to all can help society understand this and it's education, not legislation, that will solve the suicidal ideation rate.  That said, I find the "gender-fluid generation" to be complete nonsense and think their desire to have their feelings be put on the same level as those in the transgender community is a disservice to the transgender community.  I'm sorry but you don't get to change your sex by how you feel.  If you do then you are pushing aside the science of biology and the science behind GID.  

The challenge is you can't have that conversation today.  You're either all on or out.  This line in the sand is killing people.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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Dale City

Dale

Posted
Posted
On ‎3‎/‎5‎/‎2017 at 0:13 AM, elrodvt said:

If you have an open mind on the topic watch this recent Vice news:  https://news.vice.com/story/watch-the-full-episode-of-trans-youth-from-vice-on-hbo

There was also a great PBS Frontline last year.

Then if you still think a 40% suicide rate isn't a civil rights issue there isn't much more to say.

Bake the damn cake or you'll commit suicide ?

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Dale City

Dale

Posted
Posted

Perhaps lost in this: it is no longer the case of a vanishingly small percentage of the population, using women's restrooms, likely without incidence ... and this for a long time.

Rather, "transgenderism" has become a social contagion in the schools. It's hipster-hip. And at present rate, by 2025 we'll all non-binary.

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elrodvt Burg

elrodvt

Posted
Posted
1 hour ago, cjd5050 said:

www.creedthoughts.gov.www\creedthoughts

Good one. 

I've appreciated reading your thoughts on this. I agree the suicide topic is difficult to study and there are academic papers on each side of the issue. As a layman it seems obvious to me but we all know the obvious is not always true.

Regardless of "civil rights" there really is no good reason not to help this group any way we can and the pedophile fear mongering has been despicable. 

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Dale City

Dale

Posted
Posted
8 minutes ago, elrodvt said:

Good one. 

I've appreciated reading your thoughts on this. I agree the suicide topic is difficult to study and there are academic papers on each side of the issue. As a layman it seems obvious to me but we all know the obvious is not always true.

Regardless of "civil rights" there really is no good reason not to help this group any way we can and the pedophile fear mongering has been despicable. 

We are helping them. Gender docs are training judges and calling social services on recalcitrant parents.

 

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Durhamite Hamlet

Durhamite

Posted
Posted
1 hour ago, Dale said:

We are helping them. Gender docs are training judges and calling social services on recalcitrant parents.

 

Let those with a gender-based identity issues remain in a state of bewilderment or simply let them die off.  It' the American way, we got bigger fish to fry.  Who's gonna miss them?  Seriously though, it's a very convoluted topic but I'd rather side on the listening, understanding and accommodating approach. However, overcoming the fear inertia is formidable and usually requires critics and opponent decades to mentally evolve or realize a workable solution.  This isn't America's first foray beckoning upon a societal "norm" shift.  Once we've advanced beyond the baseless fears and muzzle the fringe noise we'll be able to appropriately accommodate these Americans. 

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