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Why don't Democrats just start caring about normal, hard-working people, instead of caring only about criminals, the indolent, atheists and all sorts of fringe groups?  Then Democrats might actually start winning elections at the state level, and we wouldn't have to worry about a right-wing GOP running things.

Edited by mallguy

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I'm putting my reply to this here...

I agree with pretty much everything you are saying from the linked post. What I objected to in your first post was the desire to paint all Republicans and all Church-goers with broad, stereotypical strokes. I'm also suggesting that you are either smart enough to understand that not all Christians or Republicans are the same, or that you should be. Attacking people you don't agree with...well...is a little hypocritical. But, flat out grouping everyone, with a particular belief system or political slant, as having the same views on this particular issue (HB2) is just ignorant.

As long as I'm at it...I do think there are those who are honestly concerned about bathroom safety. I just don't think they understand the situation and I think they've been tricked (by the Republican leaders in Raleigh who have taken up this cause) into thinking this bill will somehow protect them.

I don't want anyone to misunderstand what I mean by that statement either. People should make it their responsibility to learn about new laws passed by the government and not blindly follow what politicians tell them. This, of course, applies to Republicans and Democrats. These people, who I suggest don't understand that bathroom safety really isn't the point of this bill, absolutely SHOULD be held responsible for supporting something that will do harm. The only distinction I'm making is they are motivated out of personal fear and not hatred. This, of course, isn't everyone who is supporting this bill. I'm sure many know exactly what they are supporting and do so because they do feel the bill strikes a blow for morality.

My FAVORITE thing I've seen battling this bill was something someone on here posted about how there have been more Republicans charged with bathroom crimes than transgendered people since laws were passed in other cities allowing people to use the bathroom they feel most comfortable in.

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2 hours ago, mallguy said:

Why don't Democrats just start caring about normal, hard-working people, instead of caring only about criminals, the indolent, atheists and all sorts of fringe groups?  Then Democrats might actually start winning elections at the state level, and we wouldn't have to worry about a right-wing GOP running things.

The incenuation that atheist (and other fringe groups) are listed with criminals and the indolent definitely shows your mind state. I guess there is no way we can "save" you.

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9 minutes ago, MilZ said:

The incenuation that atheist (and other fringe groups) are listed with criminals and the indolent...

I sort of agreed with MallGuy's post but was going to post something similar to what you have. I wouldn't include atheists with criminals and the indolent. I'm not sure what was meant by "other fringe groups". If we're talking minorities, gays, women, etc then no way they should be included with the first two. If it just means other groups like criminals and the indolent, then of course.

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Minorities are certainly not "the fringe".  Nor are women.  Atheists are considered "the fringe" in the Bible Belt.  I don't view them as "the fringe" as they're a growing part of the US population and nearly the plurality of the Democratic base, but they're considered "the fringe" in the Bible Belt.

If a Democrat considers criminals and the indolent as "normal" (see SgtCampsalot's post), then that shows how "out there" today's Democratic Party is and why it cannot win elections at the state level.

My point is that the Democratic Party doesn't (or doesn't appear to) stand up for the broad center of the US electorate anymore--definitely not middle and lower-middle class families who work and play by the rules--and so the result is what we have a GOP that is too "out there" as well for my taste but is left dominant at the state level. 

Edited by mallguy

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38 minutes ago, mallguy said:

My point is that the Democratic Party doesn't stand up for the broad center of the US electorate anymore--definitely not middle and lower-middle class families who work and play by the rules. 

Ain't that the truth. Christians aren't all ignorant jerks, atheists aren't all angry contrarians. To believe these things is to play into the hands of the political elite. 

I believe what will prove to be the true saving grace of the middle, moderate, middle-class person in this country is things that are often discussed here, and on platforms like Strong Towns, etc, that are apolitical by nature. Social issues are obviously important to our culture and to everr individual who cares about them in any way, but the real common ground isn't being focused on much by the political realm. But I believe peaceful co-existence among people who disagree on social issues would also be more possible when these foundational things are focused on more.

Edited by SgtCampsalot
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26 minutes ago, jednc said:

I sort of agreed with MallGuy's post but was going to post something similar to what you have. I wouldn't include atheists with criminals and the indolent. I'm not sure what was meant by "other fringe groups". If we're talking minorities, gays, women, etc then no way they should be included with the first two. If it just means other groups like criminals and the indolent, then of course.

Thank you. Also, my post was before your earlier post had appeared, but I appreciated that first paragraph.  

I understand people have different perspectives and religions (or lack of...), but when someone's baseline assumes x-group are the same thing as bad people because of their take on the afterlife, it's hard not to say anything. 

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6 minutes ago, MilZ said:

Thank you. Also, my post was before your earlier post had appeared, but I appreciated that first paragraph.  

I understand people have different perspectives and religions (or lack of...), but when someone's baseline assumes x-group are the same thing as bad people because of their take on the afterlife, it's hard not to say anything. 

I specifically stated that I do not consider atheists to be "the fringe".  Why is that a problem for you?

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6 minutes ago, mallguy said:

I specifically stated that I do not consider atheists to be "the fringe".  Why is that a problem for you?

Your not getting it... 

If I began an argument with something like: "We shouldn't give so much attention to rapists, perverts, and Christians..."

Thats my issue. I couldnt care less who anyone considers "fringe".

Edited by MilZ

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30 minutes ago, MilZ said:

Your not getting it... 

If I began an argument with something like: "We shouldn't give so much attention to rapists, perverts, and Christians..."

Thats my issue. I couldnt care less who anyone considers "fringe".

Yes, I certainly get it, despite your inability to spell or use correct grammar.  You, to the contrary, certainly do not "get it"; I am bemoaning the fact that the Democratic Party's perceived abdication of responsibility for the interests of "middle America" has led to takeover by a GOP that I find too extreme.  Now why are you disagreeing with complaints about the GOP's radicalism?

Christians are certainly considered "the fringe" in Manhattan, Cambridge, MA and many other areas.  Atheists are considered "the fringe" in the Bible Belt.  Should either group be considered "the fringe"?  As I've stated, no, but they are, like it or not.

Edited by mallguy

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I apologize for my grammatical errors. Obviously my reply is completely invalid. I'm devistatingly embarrassed and I promise never to submit a quickly-typed phone reply again without going through my editors.

6 hours ago, mallguy said:

Why don't Democrats just start caring about normal, hard-working people, instead of caring only about criminals, the indolent, atheists and all sorts of fringe groups? 

If you really don't understand how this sentence incenuates that atheists are not "normal, hard working" people, and are more like "criminals" or "the indolent", then there is nothing even this illiterate can tell you. Since my first reply to this quote, I have never referenced anything outside this sentence, so your extraction of my opinions and inferring that I care if one group or another is considered "fringe" up north, down south, or wherever, absolutely shows that you misunderstood what I was talking about.

Edited by MilZ

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1 hour ago, MilZ said:

I apologize for my grammatical errors. Obviously my reply is completely invalid. I'm devistatingly embarrassed and I promise never to submit a quickly-typed phone reply again without going through my editors.

If you really don't understand how this sentence incenuates that atheists are not "normal, hard working" people, and are more like "criminals" or "the indolent", then there is nothing even this illiterate can tell you. Since my first reply to this quote, I have never referenced anything outside this sentence, so your extraction of my opinions and inferring that I care if one group or another is considered "fringe" up north, down south, or wherever, absolutely shows that you misunderstood what I was talking about.

Do you not even have a basic comprehension of the point of my posts?

(That was a rhetorical question; of course you don't.)  Your thinking is as sloppy as your grammar. 

And, in case it's not clear to you (as you don't seem to pick up on things quickly), I would not have supported McCrory's or the legislature's actions.  If Charlotte wants to do its own thing, so be it.

Edited by mallguy

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4 hours ago, jednc said:

I'm putting my reply to this here...

I agree with pretty much everything you are saying from the linked post. What I objected to in your first post was the desire to paint all Republicans and all Church-goers with broad, stereotypical strokes. I'm also suggesting that you are either smart enough to understand that not all Christians or Republicans are the same, or that you should be. Attacking people you don't agree with...well...is a little hypocritical. But, flat out grouping everyone, with a particular belief system or political slant, as having the same views on this particular issue (HB2) is just ignorant.

As long as I'm at it...I do think there are those who are honestly concerned about bathroom safety. I just don't think they understand the situation and I think they've been tricked (by the Republican leaders in Raleigh who have taken up this cause) into thinking this bill will somehow protect them.

I don't want anyone to misunderstand what I mean by that statement either. People should make it their responsibility to learn about new laws passed by the government and not blindly follow what politicians tell them. This, of course, applies to Republicans and Democrats. These people, who I suggest don't understand that bathroom safety really isn't the point of this bill, absolutely SHOULD be held responsible for supporting something that will do harm. The only distinction I'm making is they are motivated out of personal fear and not hatred. This, of course, isn't everyone who is supporting this bill. I'm sure many know exactly what they are supporting and do so because they do feel the bill strikes a blow for morality.

My FAVORITE thing I've seen battling this bill was something someone on here posted about how there have been more Republicans charged with bathroom crimes than transgendered people since laws were passed in other cities allowing people to use the bathroom they feel most comfortable in.

Thank you for all the well-crafted responses. I'm sure you're a smart, successful and very nice guy.

It's different for those of us who have been fighting these battles for 30+ years. I'm exasperated, to put it mildly. Then when some start throwing mud on my hometown for no good reason I'm certain to pull out the broad brush and bold colors. I'm sorry if you were carelessly spattered by my high dudgeon. But I think the colors are correct for a great many people around here.

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I love UP because even though tensions are high, everyone still *tries to keep things civil, leading to an incredible amount of sarcasm and passive aggression, the likes of which are fairly uncommon on the interwebs.  I'm highly entertained.

 

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21 minutes ago, ah59396 said:

I love UP because even though tensions are high, everyone still *tries to keep things civil, leading to an incredible amount of sarcasm and passive aggression, the likes of which are fairly uncommon on the interwebs.  I'm highly entertained.

 

My thanks to jednc for the civil responses was sincere. There wasn't any sarcasm or passive aggressiveness in my response. It pretty much just says what it says: 'walk a mile in my shoes' and for every jednc, there are 10,000-ok, maybe 1,000- Tami Fitzgeralds and Dan Bishops.

Edited by Silicon Dogwoods
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On 4/1/2016 at 8:26 AM, Piedmont767 said:

Can we please get this thread back on track? Let's keep Urban Planet civil and friendly, let's continue to discuss NC Civil Rights as that is what the tread is about. 

If there is, I already would have done it on the Southpark Mall thread and the airport thread.

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So, this sucks about PayPal, but I'm glad somebody is actually doing something about it.  I wrote my CEO to explain that our company needs to publicly condemn HB2 and call for its repeal.....simply stating our company's policies on diversity and inclusion isn't enough.

If your leaders haven't condemned HB2, I urge you to do the same.

 

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missing.png
Tuesday Apr 05, 2016 · 10:58 AM EDT
 
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paypal-logo.jpg
 
 
Say goodbye to 400+ jobs, Governor McCrory...

Governor McCrory said, "I have not had one company say they're moving out of North Carolina” as a result of the enactment of that state’s anti-LGBTQ law.

Well, now you have, Governor.

PayPal is dropping its plans to base a global operations center in Charlotte.  That’s $3.6 million in infrastructure (according to AP) and more than 400 jobs gone in the blink of McCrory’s bigoted eye.

Here’s the announcement, from PayPal CEO Dan Schulman:

Two weeks ago, PayPal announced plans to open a new global operations center in Charlotte and employ over 400 people in skilled jobs.  In the short time since then, legislation has been abruptly enacted by the State of North Carolina that invalidates protections of the rights of lesbian, gay, bisexual, and transgender citizens and denies these members of our community equal rights under the law.

The new law perpetuates discrimination and it violates the values and principles that are at the core of PayPal’s mission and culture.  As a result, PayPal will not move forward with our planned expansion into Charlotte.

This decision reflects PayPal’s deepest values and our strong belief that every person has the right to be treated equally, and with dignity and respect. These principles of fairness, inclusion and equality are at the heart of everything we seek to achieve and stand for as a company. And they compel us to take action to oppose discrimination.

Our decision is a clear and unambiguous one. But we do regret that we will not have the opportunity to be a part of the Charlotte community and to count as colleagues the skilled and talented people of the region. As a company that is committed to the principle that everyone deserves to live without fear of discrimination simply for being who they are, becoming an employer in North Carolina, where members of our teams will not have equal rights under the law, is simply untenable.

While we will seek an alternative location for our operations center, we remain committed to working with the LGBT community in North Carolina to overturn this discriminatory legislation, alongside all those who are committed to equality.We will stand firm in our commitment to equality and inclusion and our conviction that we can make a difference by living and acting on our values.  It’s the right thing to do for our employees, our customers, and our communities.

I offer kudos to Schulman and PayPal, congratulations (in advance) to whatever non-bigoted state ultimately lands that operations center, and a big box of tissues to Governor McCrory...he’ll need them.

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4 minutes ago, RaleighHeelsfan said:

So when is Pay Pal going to pull out of China and Saudi Arabia Grodney? Pay Pal is ok with doing business there. Not North Carolina though. Hypocrites!!!!

ok

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5 minutes ago, RaleighHeelsfan said:

So when is Pay Pal going to pull out of China and Saudi Arabia Grodney? Pay Pal is ok with doing business there. Not North Carolina though. Hypocrites!!!!

You're totally one-hundred-percent right. But all politics are local, and we can only have so much affect on these things. That's something that we just need to keep within our peripheral in the long game.

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