The River District

[kermit]

It is good news, but building affordable housing in areas not (and not planned to be) served by transit is a bit counter-productive. 

[KJHburg]

More details on the first phase of River District in this article.  Apartments, townhomes some retail and office in addition to the affordable housing.  I am sure bus lines will be extended to this area as there is service already to the Charlotte Premium Outlets.  There is already a lot of jobs in this area nearby so affordable housing should be here too. 

   https://www.bizjournals.com/charlotte/news/2018/08/27/charlotte-developer-to-donate-land-at-river.html?ana=e_ae_set1&s=article_du&ed=2018-08-27&u=oAaDx%2B74FoP4qOJ%2By4AU6dhJPpc&t=1535408330&j=83501661

Plus Wells Fargo will donate $20 MILLION to affordable housing in Charlotte which is fantastic!  

 

[KJHburg]

Site plan of first phase of River District including the affordable housing and new Novel apartments from the Charlotte Agenda article. 

https://www.charlotteagenda.com/138637/river-district-affordable-housing/

[CLT2014]

I feel like the SFH portion of the River District is going to end up a lot like Berrewick. Cookie cutter $300k homes with a faux brick or rock facade and then sides and back are vinyl. 

I'm sure they will sell out and it's good to have housing that is reasonably priced... I just dont think it's going to be pretty to look at.

[Matthew.Brendan]

Yeah this is easily shaping up to be mediocre at best. Literally unlimited potential and we end up with more schlock. Gotta love Charlotte.

[CLT2014]

19 minutes ago, Matthew.Brendan said:

Yeah this is easily shaping up to be mediocre at best. Literally unlimited potential and we end up with more schlock. Gotta love Charlotte.

To be fair, most new build SFH's are pretty mediocre in most areas of the country (hence the rising popularity of renovating older homes with character in town nationwide). I just don't see families paying $600,000 for a home over in the River District with school assignments to West Meck High, hence the construction quality with match the price point for the location (like Berewick's entry level price point) and likely include vinyl, etc...

Meanwhile Simonini will do a really high quality infill project in South Park or Myers Park, but a 2,500 square foot house will go for $1 million, so the quality will be a lot better.

Edited August 28, 2018 by CLT2014

[WCUP]

Will there be any public access to the river for recreation?   Forgive my ignorance - just not sure how to find that or interpret the images shared in the link to the Charlotte Agenda piece.   Ramsey Creek Park's beach has been a huge success and demonstrates the public interest in water access...would be nice if this includes some sort of access for the public.

A thought on the West Meck comment - I have my fingers crossed that this development returns more affluence to the west side of the county to improve the distribution of resources/affluence across the CMS system.   

 

Soap box rant:  CMS has had to be very creative in their efforts to fight resegregation, and while they've made sensible moves to align districts where affluent neighborhoods can be combined with low income ones to create more diverse schools, there are only so many opportunities for that.    West Meck doesn't have to be a "bad school" if the community embraces it .    Their hands have been tied based on the current distribution of wealth.   The tricky and unlikely part is convincing parents that they can be the change they want to see in any school and that the experience gained attending a diverse school provides valuable perspective.   It's an uphill battle and I wish CMS did a better job recruiting/convincing parents that are on the fence of private enrollment to jump on board.   Unfortunately those types of positions are the first to be cut during budget reduction measures and are the last to be replaced.    Tough to watch it play out as I think the success of our public schools is a major selling point and asset for the city that many overlook or don't consider without kids in the system.  

[CLT2014]

Totally agree with you that it would be awesome to see upper middle class and affluent families chose the River District and public schools. My concern is the developer isn't going to see that as a feasible risk. Expensive and high quality housing in that area like the Palisades has struggled, with school assignments a major reason families end up leaving the Palisades for Fort Mill, Ballantyne, etc...

Crescent either has to go all in with the most high quality incredible and unique housing to draw people out there at prices points over $350k. Otherwise it will be Berewick (which is fine, just nothing special).

[Matthew.Brendan]

Charlotte has no river through it’s downtown, this is the closest we will get. All signs point to stock suburban crap. 

“Hey maybe next time”  

[CLT2014]

26 minutes ago, Matthew.Brendan said:

Charlotte has no river through it’s downtown, this is the closest we will get. All signs point to stock suburban crap. 

“Hey maybe next time”  

Only about half a mile of land will actually be on the water and Crescent has said it will all be public space for the Charlotte community to use.

The River District is nice for branding, but the vast majority of their land holdings won't touch the river nor have a view of it due to geography.

Riverwalk down in Rock Hill actually has more waterfront to use.

Edited August 28, 2018 by CLT2014

[WCUP]

46 minutes ago, CLT2014 said:

Totally agree with you that it would be awesome to see upper middle class and affluent families chose the River District and public schools. My concern is the developer isn't going to see that as a feasible risk. Expensive and high quality housing in that area like the Palisades has struggled, with school assignments a major reason families end up leaving the Palisades for Fort Mill, Ballantyne, etc...

Crescent either has to go all in with the most high quality incredible and unique housing to draw people out there at prices points over $350k. Otherwise it will be Berewick (which is fine, just nothing special).

I hear ya.    We have different criteria for 'upper middle class' and 'affluent' as I'd put Berewick home owners in either of those categories.    CMS will succeed or fail based on that demographic's buy-in.   Big opportunity to connect with the already established Coulwood/Mountain Island community as well.  

Not taking away from your point that the properties may not host 'home shows' that rival the Palisades, just see it as a great opportunity for new energy to be injected into the west side schools, vinyl siding / hardiplank and all.     

Edited August 28, 2018 by WCUP

[CLT2014]

8 minutes ago, WCUP said:

I hear ya.    We have different criteria for 'upper middle class' and 'affluent' as I'd put Berewick home owners in either of those categories.    CMS will succeed or fail based on that demographic's buy-in.   Big opportunity to connect with the already established Coulwood/Mountain Island community as well.  

Not taking away from your point that the properties may not host 'home shows' that rival the Palisades, just see it as a great opportunity for new energy to be injected into the west side schools, vinyl siding / hardiplank and all.     

Yeah I wouldn't be disappointed in vinyl, especially if done right. The houses at Riverwalk in Rock Hill for example look good and I like the front porches, architecture variance, garage in back, etc... those start in the $300's.

You can pull off a decent looking $300,000 SFH, especially if you do reasonable square footage and not huge mcmansions.

Edited August 28, 2018 by CLT2014

[KJHburg]

Most of the river frontage in that area  of River District is individually owned homes.  There is not much frontage of the river for this neighborhood.  Take a drive down Sadler Road and you will see vacant land on one side of the road and houses along the river.  Those people are not leaving without being paid market values for their homes.    The vast majority of this land is vacant land between I=485 and the river but not including the riverside which was developed long ago. 

[pgsinger]

I work for an SFR REIT that targets the affordable housing market (see Freddie Mac's recent large SFR loan).  A $300k SFH is not affordable.  That price point does not even come close to affordable.  We are in the $125k range.  I also do not think the price point needs to be anywhere near that level to draw people out here.  The economy of scales the developers get by building these and other units will seriously drive down the cost of construction.  Furthermore, people in this market (affordable housing) will commute from here to live in a clean, new house, they can afford.  Finally, remember that affordable means different things to different people.  Freddie Mac qualifies affordable as a home that someone earning 80% of the area's median income can afford.  To put that into perspective, Charlotte's median income is about $53k, and the starting salary of a CMS teacher is just over $40k...or about 75% of the median income.

With respect to vinyl, almost all SFR REITs and institutional investors, including the ones targeting the affordable  market are incorporating LVP (luxury vinyl plank) or similar product.  I had it in my last house, and I absolutely loved it.  It looks good and is resilient as hell.  It costs a little bit more upfront (but less than hardwoods), but you get way more savings during subsequent turns of the house.  

[kermit]

FWIW: The proportion of households with school aged children has been declining steadily since the 1970s. It was around 56% of HH and now its around 41%.

In theory, school district quality should matter less over time. In practice it is a proxy for lots of other stuff so it (school quality) can become a somewhat perverse metric.

[Nick2]

I really hope when the add an airport rail line that they extend it to the river district. 

Perhaps it would be worth it for crescent to try to buy out a decent sized patch of land on riverfront to develop a boardwalk/recreation type area.

[KJHburg]

Story about the donation of the land for the affordable housing in the River District. 

https://www.multihousingnews.com/post/inclusion-the-key-ingredient-behind-charlottes-river-district/

 

[Windsurfer]

On 8/28/2018 at 4:36 PM, Nick2 said:

I really hope when the add an airport rail line that they extend it to the river district. 

Perhaps it would be worth it for crescent to try to buy out a decent sized patch of land on riverfront to develop a boardwalk/recreation type area.

They're supposedly saving a little over 100 acres for preservation and open space ; however, preservation and open space don't mean the same thing to everyone.  I, myself, am sick of open space becoming ball fields and fences.  Can't we save just SOME pieces of nature in this county?  Do we have to develop everything?  One thing I do like about boardwalks, if done properly they allow for wildlife to scamper around beneath them. 

[KJHburg]

well The River District has a new website.  Before everyone starts bashing this as suburban sprawl etc.  I say I would rather have a huge parcel of vacant land like this development with a master plan in mind than piecemeal.   This will be very successful I know.  Lots of jobs and housing in one huge parcel.

https://www.theriverdistrict.com/

and from Crescents webpage  some new renderings here too  https://www.crescentcommunities.com/commercial-mixed-use/the-river-district/

[Cadi40]

Hopefully they execute this as best as possible but my expectations are low. 

[Desert Power]

7 minutes ago, KJHburg said:

well The River District has a new website.  Before everyone starts bashing this as suburban sprawl etc.  I say I would rather have a huge parcel of vacant land like this development with a master plan in mind than piecemeal.   This will be very successful I know.  Lots of jobs and housing in one huge parcel.

https://www.theriverdistrict.com/

and from Crescents webpage  some new renderings here too  https://www.crescentcommunities.com/commercial-mixed-use/the-river-district/

Yeah, if those renderings are the best hope we have for density there then it is a pretty big failure.  I hope the city/county devotes very little resources to this.

[Guest]

well The River District has a new website.  Before everyone starts bashing this as suburban sprawl etc.  I say I would rather have a huge parcel of vacant land like this development with a master plan in mind than piecemeal.   This will be very successful I know.  Lots of jobs and housing in one huge parcel.
https://www.theriverdistrict.com/
and from Crescents webpage  some new renderings here too  https://www.crescentcommunities.com/commercial-mixed-use/the-river-district/

I think SumitomoForestry will do just fine


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

[Windsurfer]

I think the argument is, why does it have to be developed at all ?    You're right of course that a planned development is better than random stuff.   

I, along with several neighbors, are preserving land up around Davidson.  The values in Davidson itself are soaring, and not just because of its proximity to the college, or the fact that it's a bedroom community for Charlotte.  A lot of that is due to the scarcity of surrounding land because of folk like me who are limiting what can actually be cut down and bulldozed.

 

 

[CLT>]

Too bad we can't have design standards so a whole section of town doesn't end up being filled with second rate cheap crap buildings. At least Crescent is there to balance out LH.

Crescent even make sure LU doesn't appear in any ally Center renderings... Ha!

https://www.crescentcommunities.com/commercial-mixed-use/ally-charlotte-center/

[Hushpuppy321]

Does anyone think that the River District will be developed like the Golf Links & Waverly Developments in Ballantyne have?