The River District

[videtur quam contuor]

Go to the Cincinnati aerial view of their tennis facility online. Maps says 26 miles drive distance from downtown Cincinnati and across Interstate 71 from Kings Island theme park. A golf course adjoins the tennis center.Kings Island parking area is vastly larger.

[JHart]

So basically a private equity firm buys the rights to a tennis tournament that's been held in Cincinnati for 124 years and already has $22.5M budgeted from the state of Ohio government for upgrades to the facilities, pays for some architectural renderings for a development site doing everything they can to generate interest in a suburban office park and hints at $150M in state incentives from NC in an effort to get more free money from Ohio?

 

[CLT Development]

50 minutes ago, Nathan2 said:

The tennis facility is just a sprawling car-only infrastructure nightmare. The last thing we need is another overbuilt development far from the city and can only be accessed by car, which will further cement car-oriented travel patterns. Urban-forward sports facilities are the only way to go in today's modern era. This will just be another drain on the cities infrastructure and tax base. 

Yea the 100 Acres of parking made me choke on my coffee.

3 hours ago, Madison Parkitect said:

That's where they have the US Open, by the way. This would be a really legit complex.

Yep, been to the Open there twice, got in trouble with security for... talking to my boss.

Edited May 11, 2023 by CLT Development

[J-Rob]

 

Maybe he is playing games to get more money from Ohio, though Navarro lives in South Carolina, tried to buy Panthers, and convinced a few city council members he is not doing exactly what you suggested (see quote below from article). I am not naïve on negotiating tactics, but take a look at the list of Masters 1000 host cities. The list includes Indian Wells (outside LA), Miami, Monte-Carlo, Madrid, Rome, Toronto, Cincinnati, Shanghai, and Paris. You tell me which is the outlier. Charlotte would still be the outlier, but it makes sense to me that the new owner of the tournament would rather elevate the profile of his home region in newly built facilities rather than keep the tournament in Cincy. Just my take.

"Graham told CBJ that he wanted to make sure Navarro wasn’t merely using Charlotte as a negotiating ploy to secure a better offer in Cincinnati.

Convinced Navarro’s interest was genuine, Graham and others — including Tracy Dodson, the city’s head of economic development — kept talking. "

https://www.bizjournals.com/charlotte/news/2023/05/10/western-southern-open-tennis-river-district-beemok.html

Edited May 11, 2023 by J-Rob

[JHart]

3 hours ago, J-Rob said:

Convinced Navarro’s interest was genuine, Graham and others — including Tracy Dodson, the city’s head of economic development — kept talking. "

Well of course they "kept talking", half of the city council, city manager, county officials got to keep making trips to Charleston to hangout with a billionaire at his hotels and tennis clubs and Quail Hollow! Who's turning that down when it makes some noise about what a great job you're doing driving development and nobody will blame you when it stays in the same place it's always been since tennis was invented.

[ertley]

9 hours ago, Nathan2 said:

The tennis facility is just a sprawling car-only infrastructure nightmare. The last thing we need is another overbuilt development far from the city and can only be accessed by car, which will further cement car-oriented travel patterns. Urban-forward sports facilities are the only way to go in today's modern era. This will just be another drain on the cities infrastructure and tax base. 

IF this were to actually happen, I will reiterate something I've opined before in this Topic: It would be super duper easy (relatively) to plot a spur of the (future) Silver Line from Wilkinson down to the River District, if integrated within the plans at this stage. If you look at the map of west Charlotte, there is a ton of still underutilized land south of Wilkinson east of the airport--but it won't remain that way for long. 

If a spur were plotted within the River District, then the next large landowner to the east is...the City of Charlotte under the airport authority. So, I would think getting a right of way on the southernmost part of their acreage could be made to happen--I mean, ya'll, they own everything south of West to Bynum, and almost down to Douglas, and of course all the way over to Billy Graham. It's actually a little unnerving how much land the city owns under the aegis of the airport in that general area. 

That just leaves getting from Billy Graham up to the (future) right of way south of Wilkinson, which isn't that much of a stretch. 

If the city were really serious about negotiating with this guy, and enough people rightly pointed out that any 21st facility of this sort should be linked to legit mass transit, it could be done. 

I think this spur should happen regardless, especially when you consider that the River District developer and the city own over two thirds of the land from which the right of way would have to be taken.

[Desert Power]

On 5/11/2023 at 1:17 PM, JHart said:

So basically a private equity firm buys the rights to a tennis tournament that's been held in Cincinnati for 124 years and already has $22.5M budgeted from the state of Ohio government for upgrades to the facilities, pays for some architectural renderings for a development site doing everything they can to generate interest in a suburban office park and hints at $150M in state incentives from NC in an effort to get more free money from Ohio?

 

This seems like what is happening. Only thing worse would be if Charlotte actually spends the money on this. Just a shameful idea for a city that cannot even run trains that stay on the tracks.

[KJHburg]

From the best of what I can gather this proposed tennis complex would be on River District land closest to the airport and I-485 that was slated for office space.  Since I think the demand for office space will be muted this is probably a good switch of land use.   I do think RD will be an attractive site for office space but only after it really gets going in development.

Anyway looks like the city is in with some help from the hotel motel taxes. 

https://charlotte.axios.com/331798/city-beemok-investment-commitment-tennis-complex-river-district-campus-western-southern-open-pickleball/

 

[JHart]

What a joke. In 2017 (before Beemok owned) the tournament itself conducted a study and found the economic impact to be $65M and somewhere around 13,000 hotel nights. Somehow (the infamous USC sports management program) they are estimating double the attendance and $300M+ economic impact.. If the hotel nights are even remotely close to what the tournament found it will only be a few hundred years before the hospitality fund is refilled like Braxton Wilson said it would. 

[Madison Parkitect]

35 minutes ago, JHart said:

What a joke. In 2017 (before Beemok owned) the tournament itself conducted a study and found the economic impact to be $65M and somewhere around 13,000 hotel nights. Somehow (the infamous USC sports management program) they are estimating double the attendance and $300M+ economic impact.. If the hotel nights are even remotely close to what the tournament found it will only be a few hundred years before the hospitality fund is refilled like Braxton Wilson said it would. 

But that tournament study only gathered the economic impact it generated by itself, right? The economic impact Beemok is claiming would be from the entire complex, annually. I'm not saying they're right or wrong with their numbers, but I think they are comparing two different things.

[CLT Development]

35 minutes ago, Madison Parkitect said:

But that tournament study only gathered the economic impact it generated by itself, right? The economic impact Beemok is claiming would be from the entire complex, annually. I'm not saying they're right or wrong with their numbers, but I think they are comparing two different things.

He called the tournament $250M and the entire complex $300M

[Madison Parkitect]

14 minutes ago, CLT Development said:

He called the tournament $250M and the entire complex $300M

Oh, okay. Thanks for the correction.

[J-Rob]

2 hours ago, JHart said:

What a joke. In 2017 (before Beemok owned) the tournament itself conducted a study and found the economic impact to be $65M and somewhere around 13,000 hotel nights. Somehow (the infamous USC sports management program) they are estimating double the attendance and $300M+ economic impact.. If the hotel nights are even remotely close to what the tournament found it will only be a few hundred years before the hospitality fund is refilled like Braxton Wilson said it would. 

For what it is worth, the 2017 study is apples and oranges to a new facility with an extended tournament and field. 

https://www.journal-news.com/ohio/western-southern-tennis-tournaments-potential-move-will-have-economic-impact/CCUXCLW2JFAKXK34MXO5YZQVI4/

[JHart]

1 hour ago, CLT Development said:

He called the tournament $250M and the entire complex $300M

$275M for the tournament.

13 minutes ago, J-Rob said:

For what it is worth, the 2017 study is apples and oranges to a new facility with an extended tournament and field. 

It's still only going from 9 days to 12 days with the expanded field and their proposal to the city is still $150M inflated over what Cincinnati said it could jump to

[Madison Parkitect]

4 minutes ago, JHart said:

$275M for the tournament.

It's still only going from 9 days to 12 days with the expanded field and their proposal to the city is still $150M inflated over what Cincinnati said it could jump to

Well, here in Charlotte we're well-acquainted with inflated tourism predictions (looking at you, NASCAR HoF which told the city we'd get 800,000 visitors when the baseball/basketball/football HoFs together only draw 675,000).

[J-Rob]

Yeah, lenders wrote off $26 million in defaulted loans at the whitewater center, too, though they seem to really be hitting their stride in the last few years with year-round programming.

https://www.bizjournals.com/charlotte/blog/queen_city_agenda/2010/02/whitewater_center_swimming_in_less_debt.html

Incentives aside, the possibility of hosting a Masters 1000 tournament alongside Miami, Monte-Carlo, Madrid, Rome, Toronto, Shanghai, and Paris is pretty cool for the city. And I do think it has a chance to do better economically here than 25 miles from downtown Cincinnati.

Edited June 13, 2023 by J-Rob

[NDL.]

I have this thread bookmarked, with the thinking that there will be substantial updates at some point.

Here we are, almost into August, 2023, with no substantive updates.

It's kinda sad...

[CLT2014]

17 minutes ago, NDL. said:

I have this thread bookmarked, with the thinking that there will be substantial updates at some point.

Here we are, almost into August, 2023, with no substantive updates.

It's kinda sad...

They are just busy cutting down trees to make room for the surface parking lots, giant roadway splicing the neighborhood in two so you drive to the giant grocery store with massive surface parking lot to get through, and then build the "cute" vinyl tract homes.

Red = surface parking

'

The vinyl tract home district:

 

Where the stick trees will go in the parking lots and parkways after the clear cutting:

[Matthew.Brendan]

I think I know where they took their inspiration from...

[SouthEndCLT811]

Don't forget parking for 10,000 cars for the proposed tennis complex

https://charlotte.axios.com/331798/city-beemok-investment-commitment-tennis-complex-river-district-campus-western-southern-open-pickleball/

Quote

Details: The campus could host around 200 events a year, including concerts. It would feature:

• Four stadiums
• A 14,000-seat court
• More than 40 hard, clay, indoor and pickleball courts
• Green space integrated into Mecklenburg County’s park system and greenways
• Parking for 10,000 cars, likely on land currently owned by the airport
• A 45,000-square-foot player and academy building

 

[NDL.]

Thank you both, for the updates

[CLT2014]

Here is the park on the lake from their latest video as well. Some parking lots under the power lines, walking paths, chopped trees, and buildings. 

[15895]

7 hours ago, CLT2014 said:

Here is the park on the lake from their latest video as well. Some parking lots under the power lines, walking paths, chopped trees, and buildings. 

Good Lord. I usually don’t have much critiques for the suburban parts of Charlotte or the suburbs because it’s pretty pointless and might as well enjoy them for what they are but that … looks ridiculously terrible . Especially by South Charlotte standards. 

[KJHburg]

Some nuggets from Crescent's RFQ in the Cary Files.  Bold is news to me!   I know some don't like suburban town centers but I like this one.  This land was destined to be developed piece meal and with one large planned community it will be much better.

Overview: Just west of a thriving metropolis and situated amid natural stillness, The
River District will be a 1,400-acre master-planned community connecting city life with
natural splendor. At the heart of the River District is Westrow – a truly mixed-use
community that blends the diversity and density of urban living with immediate proximity
to trails, open space, and a working farm. The variety of opportunities to enjoy the
outdoors, live, work, and play is key to a vibrant place that is unprecedented in the region.
Westrow brings together diverse housing options with lush green spaces, urban strolling
streets, restaurants, retail, and offices.
• Westrow is the first community to be built at the River District.
• In Westrow, as in the rest of The River District, no visitor or resident is more than a
five-minute walk away from a trail head or natural amenity.
• 2.5 miles of protected bike lanes connecting to 90 Miles of bicycle Lanes in the City
of Charlotte
• 3.5 Miles of Shared Use Greenway Connecting to 49 Miles of Developed Greenway
Trails in Mecklenburg County
Relevance: Westrow at the River District is an innovative mixed use master planned
community that integrates the primary components of urban life with the allure of parks,
trails, forests, river access and wide open spaces inherent in nature.
175,000 SF of
creative, mass timber
office
103,000 SF of
activated
neighborhood-centric
retail
Approx. 500 market-
rate and 124
affordable multifamily
units
2 Acre sustainable
working farm with
surrounding orchard
30 pocket parks
throughout the River
District

[Nathan2]

12 hours ago, KJHburg said:

Some nuggets from Crescent's RFQ in the Cary Files.  Bold is news to me!   I know some don't like suburban town centers but I like this one.  This land was destined to be developed piece meal and with one large planned community it will be much better.

Overview: Just west of a thriving metropolis and situated amid natural stillness, The
River District will be a 1,400-acre master-planned community connecting city life with
natural splendor. At the heart of the River District is Westrow – a truly mixed-use
community that blends the diversity and density of urban living with immediate proximity
to trails, open space, and a working farm. The variety of opportunities to enjoy the
outdoors, live, work, and play is key to a vibrant place that is unprecedented in the region.
Westrow brings together diverse housing options with lush green spaces, urban strolling
streets, restaurants, retail, and offices.
• Westrow is the first community to be built at the River District.
• In Westrow, as in the rest of The River District, no visitor or resident is more than a
five-minute walk away from a trail head or natural amenity.
• 2.5 miles of protected bike lanes connecting to 90 Miles of bicycle Lanes in the City
of Charlotte
• 3.5 Miles of Shared Use Greenway Connecting to 49 Miles of Developed Greenway
Trails in Mecklenburg County
Relevance: Westrow at the River District is an innovative mixed use master planned
community that integrates the primary components of urban life with the allure of parks,
trails, forests, river access and wide open spaces inherent in nature.
175,000 SF of
creative, mass timber
office
103,000 SF of
activated
neighborhood-centric
retail
Approx. 500 market-
rate and 124
affordable multifamily
units
2 Acre sustainable
working farm with
surrounding orchard
30 pocket parks
throughout the River
District

It's not that people don't like town centers, it's that people don't like when developers call it a mixed-use pedestrian town center and then they make 60% of the project surface parking lots and sprawling developments that require a car. The River District is a terrible misuse of some of the last bit of undeveloped land in Charlotte. Instead of giving this land a thought-out decent design they have gone the easy and cheap route. Suburban neighborhoods can be walkable and car-lite, but this is not that, this is pure car-oriented sprawl packaged to look like a walkable community.