The River District

[nakers2]

Sounds like a 21st century Levittown. 

[15895]

To put things into perslective, Davidson & Cornelius have a density of 2100 people per sq. Mile. Lots of single family homes. 

 

cornelius is 12 sq. Miles, Davidson is 5 sq. Miles. 

I’d say both are fairly urban suburbs. Much more than anything else in N.C. with their neighborhoods that have multiple entrances and grids in some form. Everywhere you go in Lake Norman, there are villages. 

I think you guys should go check out Cornelius, in particular the new development called “Antiquity” and LKN in general to get an idea of what River District could be. 

 

6 or so miles away with a density of around 2,000 peeps per sq. Mile from nothing I call a win against urban sprawl. 

 

 

 

[KJHburg]

There is LIMITED land that is owned by Crescent and LH that is on the actual the river or  lake.   I have driven down there on Sadler Rd for example and there is a house after riverfront house they are not going anywhere.  Look at the google maps and you will see what I am talking about.  There will be a couple of public access points on the river where they owned the land.  And because this is watershed area lower density development has to be near the water in this case the single family homes.  If you look closely at the plan you see the retail looks like it is surrounded by multifamily given it a town center type center.  It is a lower density than many of you like because of its location in the watershed.   A great deal I think 40% is open preserved space.   

Edited November 28, 2017 by KJHburg

[CLT2014]

1 hour ago, KJHburg said:

There is LIMITED land that is owned by Crescent and LH that is on the actual the river or  lake.   I have driven down there on Sadler Rd for example and there is a house after riverfront house they are not going anywhere.  Look at the google maps and you will see what I am talking about.  There will be a couple of public access points on the river where they owned the land.  And because this is watershed area lower density development has to be near the water in this case the single family homes.  If you look closely at the plan you see the retail looks like it is surrounded by multifamily given it a town center type center.  It is a lower density than many of you light because of its location in the watershed.   A great deal I think 40% is open preserved space.   

Will there be any widening of 485? The office set up (which is the majority of the development) is completely car dependent and suburban. 485 is going to join I-77 at a standstill at rush hour and unlike Ballantyne where some commuters don't have to get on the interstate (and take surface streets home to Fort Mill, South Charlotte, Indian Land, Matthews, etc....,), this development is a dead end off 485 and almost every car will be heading to 485 after work. The office space is enough for over 50,000 employees, but the housing will only support what.... 8,000 people, many of whom will not necessarily work in the River District offices. 

This is the type of development that causes Atlanta style traffic. We are going to continue to have spread out work hubs that cause people to commute in a bunch of different direction. We won't be able to build light rail and transit fast enough to keep up.

Uptown, University City, South Park, Ballantyne, Indian Land, Fort Mill, Airport / Coliseum, Steele Creek, and now River District as well. How do we connect these work hubs to where people live? 

Edited November 28, 2017 by CLT2014

[Cadi40]

In an Atlanta perspective it’s basically like adding a Buckhead. If they even do get the light rail to the River District I’m not sure how many passengers would ride it since it sounds more of like a development that only the people who live or work there will use. 

[cjd5050]

So how accurate is this site plan?  

 

[KJHburg]

^^^  I would say that above plan is accurate as  it mostly matches what was in that presentation just labeled differently.  LH is the office park section closest to 485.

In terms of 485 widening up to the state but probably only as express toll lanes as will happen on 485 south from 77 to US 74. 

 

 

[Nick2]

 "Old town" when it hasn't even been built yet. Good grief. 

[tozmervo]

50 minutes ago, Nick2 said:

 "Old town" when it hasn't even been built yet. Good grief. 

I'm more offended at the blatant spelling error. Any developer worth their salt knows full well that it's spelled "olde towne"

[Nick2]

4 hours ago, tozmervo said:

I'm more offended at the blatant spelling error. Any developer worth their salt knows full well that it's spelled "olde towne"

Way to steal the thunder of my joke with a funnier one...jerk

[KJHburg]

here are some actual photos of the River District today I took. I had some time to kill drove down Sadler Rd and see where on the above map it says West End and the property does not go all the way to the river.  Here is why there is not much riverfront frontage as  you think:  there is a row of lakefront riverfront homes and I can assure these people  wont be selling out anytime soon. Many homes built in the 70s/80s but some very newer homes.   Reminds me of how neighborhoods like the Farms in Mooresville come up to the lake but not all the way because of older lakefront homes.   Take a ride or bike ride down there. Most of the RD land is scrub pine trees or some logged out areas.  Some nice hardwoods in the ravines but the land is not impressive with old growth for example.   There are lots of no trespassing signs on the RD property and it is very rural feeling.   In the 6th photo River District land to the right of road lake to left. 

[asthasr]

Man, I detest this proposal. It's probably the worst development currently "on the books," in my opinion.

[southslider]

The site plans looks like conventional development with slightly better street connectivity, building orientation, and trail network. The incorporated natural areas are also better than conventional development patterns (auto-oriented suburbia), but the area's existing condition is obviously much more natural now than what it will be.

 

[Cadi40]

Why call it the River District if your not on the river. It’s basically just adding to sprawl and traffic and maybe adding a few shops. It’s not terrible but the more I read about it the worst I like it. 

[15895]

15 minutes ago, Cadi40 said:

Why call it the River District if your not on the river. It’s basically just adding to sprawl and traffic and maybe adding a few shops. It’s not terrible but the more I read about it the worst I like it. 

It’s not really sprawl. It’s densifying the city, actually. If it became this Crystal Citysome of you want, it could possibly encourage suburban sprawl as it would become a hub where people would just move further out in SC & Gaston  but within an easy commute of river district. 

I think it’s the right size. I don’t want anything robbing Center City, Ballantyne, South Park or University of Major job Relo’s. 

I rather this place have a few jobs, target, Publix maybe one day a Bed Bath & Beyond and call it a day (of course with the new type of urban suburbs. With little downtown areas and grids)

[Niner National]

1 hour ago, Cadi40 said:

Why call it the River District if your not on the river. It’s basically just adding to sprawl and traffic and maybe adding a few shops. It’s not terrible but the more I read about it the worst I like it. 

Calling it the Sprawl District probably wouldn't be as enticing.

[CLT2014]

1 hour ago, AirNostrumMAD said:

I rather this place have a few jobs, target, Publix maybe one day a Bed Bath & Beyond and call it a day (of course with the new type of urban suburbs. With little downtown areas and grids)

At 8 million square feet of office space, it will be more than a few jobs. It would have more square footage than Ballantyne or South Park. It will be like 5.5 Bank of America Corporate Center's, but instead spread out over several smaller buildings with a parking deck and large lawns. 

[15895]

4 minutes ago, CLT2014 said:

At 8 million square feet of office space, it will be more than a few jobs. It would have more square footage than Ballantyne or South Park. It will be like 5.5 Bank of America Corporate Center's, but instead spread out over several smaller buildings with a parking deck and large lawns. 

But over how many years/decades?

[Cadi40]

This is basically going to be a Ballantyne? I wish it had more retail but this should at least bring jobs...And traffic.

[KJHburg]

From the River District webpage    BOLD emphasis my add

The River District will be developed over the next few decades and could include up to:

Area (acres)1,378

Open Space (acres)552

Net Developable Area (acres)826

Office (sq. ft.)8MM

Retail (sq. ft.)500K

Hotel (rooms)1,000

Multifamily (units)2,500

Single Family (units)2,000

Two (2) Charlotte Mecklenburg School (CMS) sites – 30-50 acres

20+ Acres Public Parks

Public Riverfront park

2 Miles of planned Mecklenburg County Park & Rec Greenway

2.5 Miles of planned Overland Trail on Dixie River Road

Natural trail trails to connect Greenway and parks

Buffered Bike lanes

Developers and City are committed to build West Boulevard Extension, Garrison Road and Dixie River Road improvements as development occurs. Public transportation (CATS), Charlotte Police and Charlotte Fire needs will be addressed as development occurs.

Full Buildout of River District over next few decades could generate in excess of $3 Billion of new commercial tax base for City of Charlotte and Mecklenburg County.

>>> I would rather have one master plan for 1378 acres then piece meal development without any overall plan.  A fast growing city like Charlotte needs places for people to live and work outside of the already developed areas.  This is a fairly dense plan for areas that are in the watershed.  

[Matthew.Brendan]

Just call it “Ballantyne West” complete with lack of rail transit. 

[kermit]

59 minutes ago, Matthew.Brendan said:

Just call it “Ballantyne West” complete with lack of rail transit. 

or perhaps "back to the late 1980s"

It might attract growth from outside the region, or it might just reshuffle tenants which are already  in U City, Btyne and Arysley. 

Ultimately its just going to generate more car trips. with no net gain in productivity.  #Treadwater

Edited December 3, 2017 by kermit

[Cadi40]

Atlanta has meaningful suburbs and urban points of interest such as Buckhead and Sandy Springs, Meanwhile we have the pointless business parks that might as well just be a skyscraper and generate traffic. Ballantyne has so much potiential if all of the buildings didn’t look the same. 

[ah59396]

Haha, I know it has been mentioned already. but I just burst into laughter every time I look at that stupid map.  Naming an area "Old Town" is the douchiest crap I've ever seen.  It's so hilariously bad.  Maybe they'll build a Colonial Williamsburg and have ghost tours through there.  "the haunted car crash of 2019"...

[asthasr]

16 hours ago, AirNostrumMAD said:

It’s not really sprawl. It’s densifying the city, actually.

This is a based on a small misconception. Basically, if any green area within city limits is developed, it will "densify" the city; even if only one house is put on a thousand acres of greenery, that's still making the city "denser," by the numbers. Taken to a pathological level, this can lead to places like Gwinnett County, Georgia, which has no notable towns but manages to be only slightly less dense than Mecklenburg county.

The thing that makes this "sprawl" is the fact that it's consuming a large piece of previously-vacant land, is served only by automobile infrastructure (with no credible plan I've heard to do otherwise), and will continue to be developed at a suburban scale. In essence, we're not building a city, we're building a constellation of strip malls that happen to have apartments in them.