Seversville Projects and News

[videtur quam contuor]

10 hours ago, kermit said:

The CBJ has a story on the Lakewood Trolley (its not technically a trolley but....) https://www.bizjournals.com/charlotte/news/2019/08/29/historic-trolley-connecting-charlottes-uptown-west.html

Nothing super new or solid but the highlights are:

• From Savona Mill to "Third Ward near Bank of America Stadium" (it will not cross Cedar)
• Car 85 has been inspected and approved to run on the tracks and "another car is expected to be acquired within the next month"
• The hold up in starting service is "repairing portions of the track" and getting a generator (route will not be wired) (no funding for track work has been committed yet)
• Once funding for trackwork has been identified service could begin "as early as next year"

The service will certainly just be entertainment variety (probably just on weekends) and super slow (less than 10mph). But it could  make people see that full transit service on that route could be worthwhile (just as the Charlotte trolley in the late 90s helped make LRT happen)

 

 

 

I drove car 85 in 2001-2003 and it was a volunteer effort along with two paid staff. One was the administrator-fundraiser-scheduler and the other was an experienced mechanic responsible for keeping the car running and that was a full time job. Trucks (wheels and axles) from Australia, and the rest salvage and jerry-rigged. Nothing off the shelf or online available. Everything was manufactured in the shop. Motorman instructions were full of cautions and plan B preparations. And all needed. The Cummins donated generator was the most reliable part of the operation. Occasional out of service days even when running on weekends only. 

I wish them the very best of luck. And a top flight mechanic and engineer and a stock of parts and supplies.

[KJHburg]

the amount of new construction in Seversville Wesley Heights Savona Mill area is staggering.  Here are various street shots as I went from Thrift Rd over to West Trade.   some of it is just.....

 

 Blue Blaze is first photo and from there over to W Trade driving through the neighborhood.  

[KJHburg]

another drive through Seversville and Wesley Heights yesterday.   I think the owner of the Savona Mill needs to partner with someone who can help him get that project started as it is an impressive mill. 

[KJHburg]

Quick driving tour of Seversville and so much residential construction is going on in this neighborhood.  Today.   first photo Blue Blaze brewery. 

last 2 photos the site work of the new Shea Homes townhomes development.  

[KJHburg]

Seversville FreeMoreWest Warehouse district whatever you call it big redevelopment project announced today by Atlanta developer.

""Third & Urban said Tuesday it would upfit several properties along Gesco Street into 260,000 square feet of office, showroom and retail space. The sites Third & Urban acquired in multiple transactions in the past several months contain several midcentury warehouses, including a former Clorox manufacturing center.  Third & Urban, which is working with New York investment firm Angelo Gordon, will begin construction on the $80 million project, called Lower Tuck, this summer. Elements of the buildings like wood-truss, barrel-vaulted ceilings will remain while new construction will add storefronts, stone and brick cutting on exterior walls to allow industrial-paneled windows and new common areas, outdoor space and courtyards.  Spaces are expected to start delivering in the summer of 2021.""

Biz Journal 

https://www.bizjournals.com/charlotte/news/2020/06/02/atlanta-group-plans-80m-adaptive-reuse-project.html

very active in Atlanta intown 

https://thirdandurban.com/

[kermit]

Every once in a while a genius blesses us with something genius-like on the tweeter. This is a truly brilliant suggestion!

I have spoken with quite a few Charlotte farmers market sellers and without exception they say 1) they like the big Yorkmont market because it has easy highway access and 2) its a high volume market so its worth the long drive. I think Savona is one of the few locations intown that could duplicate both those things. The greenway is also huge bonus for weekend sales -- for equity reasons we really need a big market that is bike and ped accessible, the Yorkmont site is neither. Finally, this fills a huge hole in one of the city's biggest food deserts and Lyles has said she is prepared to spend city money to remediate food deserts.

A second bonus for this site is it would be one of the most instragrammable urbanite-hipster things in the entire South -- a Savona famers market would quickly become nationally known.

 Hopefully Pappanastos would see the merit in this proposal, after all the Southend market was really the thing that allowed Atherton to attract shoppers and then big time RE attention.

PLEASE MAKE THIS HAPPEN!!!!! (and give Clay the Queen City Nobel if it does!)

 

 

Edited July 19, 2020 by kermit

[Guest]

1 hour ago, kermit said:

Every once in a while a genius blesses us with something genius-like to the tweeter. This is a truly brilliant plan!

I have spoken with quite a few Charlotte farmers market sellers and without exception they say 1) they like the big Yorkmont market because it has easy highway access and 2) its a high volume market so its worth the long drive. I think Savona is one of the few locations intown that could duplicate both those things. The greenway is also huge bonus for weekend sales -- for equity reasons we really need a big market that is bike and ped accessible, the Yorkmont site is neither. Finally, this fills a huge hole in one of the city's biggest food deserts and Lyles has said she is prepared to spend city money to remediate food deserts.

A second bonus for this site is it would be one of the most instragrammable urbanite-hipster things in the entire South -- a Savona famers market would quickly become nationally known.

 Hopefully Pappanastos would see the merit in this proposal, after all the Southend market was really the thing that allowed Atherton to attract shoppers and then big time RE attention.

PLEASE MAKE THIS HAPPEN!!!!! (and give Clay the Queen City Nobel if it does!)

 

 

Pappanastos is about to get big help from an outside company on Savona, FYI.

[DCtransplant]

The mixed use redevelopment on Gesco St of the old Clorox warehouse has fencing up now. Both sides of the street. Seems work is imminent.

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[QClifer]

3 hours ago, DCtransplant said:

The mixed use redevelopment on Gesco St of the old Clorox warehouse has fencing up now. Both sides of the street. Seems work is imminent.

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There’s so much going on in this area with old warehouses.  I’ve probably read but forgot. What is going in this warehouse project?     Restaurants, office, retail? Thanks

[DCtransplant]

There’s so much going on in this area with old warehouses.  I’ve probably read but forgot. What is going in this warehouse project?     Restaurants, office, retail? Thanks

Office and retail but don't believe any tenants have been announced

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[KJHburg]

think it is called Lower Tuck being redeveloped by an ATL developer Third and Urban

LOWER TUCK

Lower Tuck is comprised of the adaptive re-use of 260,000 square feet of former distribution buildings in the up-and-coming west side of Charlotte, NC. The project is proximate to Uptown and sits within a commercial node that is surrounded by the Wesley Heights, Seversville and Enderly neighborhoods. These mid-century warehouses will be transformed into a fun mix of creative office spaces, dining and showroom concepts.

 

https://thirdandurban.com/

[DCtransplant]

On 7/19/2020 at 4:23 PM, Tyree Ricardo said:

Pappanastos is about to get big help from an outside company on Savona, FYI.

Anything more you can share on this? Seems like this is one of those projects that can just never get off the ground.

[DCtransplant]

A few pics from around the west trade corridor.

First four are at Five Points and of the two construction sites to create the new Five Points plaza across from JCSU. Apparently there is a Rita's opening up right here as well on Rozelle's. So could be a nice outing with the kids.

Pics five and six are of the proposal for the Mosaic Village extension that stalled out about a year or so ago. Sign is new so may be trying to dust this off again since it's right on the gold line.

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[kermit]

Holy crap! There is hope for reducing driving in Charlotte and also making the necessary zoning and code changes for affordable housing. This is great news, I am surprised and delighted this passed.

 

 

 

 

 

Edited October 20, 2020 by kermit

[Blue_Devil]

13 hours ago, kermit said:

Holy crap! There is hope for reducing driving in Charlotte and also making the necessary zoning and code changes for affordable housing. This is great news, I am surprised and delighted this passed.

 

 

 

 

 

I don't understand what no cars allowed even means.  No street parking? No drop off parking. What about guest parking? What if I am handicapped and need an ADA accessible van? 

[kermit]

39 minutes ago, Blue_Devil said:

I don't understand what no cars allowed even means.  No street parking? No drop off parking. What about guest parking? What if I am handicapped and need an ADA accessible van? 

Fundamentally the site plan omits dedicated, on site, parking (and the costs associated with that space not being available for housing units). In order to appease neighbors and the council, the apartment leases will require tenants affirm that they do not own a car. I imagine that clause would be enforced the same way that no pets clauses are.   IIRC there is a small lot for visitor, dropoff and ADA parking but no spaces are dedicated to specific units.

Aside from the ADA parking, the site plan (in terms of parking) is similar to buildings built before the 1950s.

Edited October 20, 2020 by kermit

[Blue_Devil]

46 minutes ago, kermit said:

Fundamentally the site plan omits dedicated, on site, parking (and the costs associated with that space not being available for housing units). In order to appease neighbors and the council, the apartment leases will require tenants affirm that they do not own a car. I imagine that clause would be enforced the same way that no pets clauses are.   IIRC there is a small lot for visitor, dropoff and ADA parking but no spaces are dedicated to specific units.

Aside from the ADA parking, the site plan (in terms of parking) is similar to buildings built before the 1950s.

Okay, that sounds more reasonable, and I like it better. 

[cityman4u]

Six....ONLY six...parking spaces for continuous GROCERY deliveries, visitors to the 104 units, and ADA Paratransit access is simply not enough to not allow massive street parking overflow. Simply a good minded project in wrong area. The closest grocery store is ALDI. Have any of you attempted to bike from this site location elevation to ALDI? And the size of individual units at 300-350 sq. ft. is not intended for a family of more than two.

Affordable housing? $66K is considered acceptable tenants based on area incomes as determined by GRUBB. These incomes will easily allow for ownership of a car. Humans are funny. They will always take the path of least resistance. And in Charlotte, that is owning a car after trying to take CATS for a few months. This is not going to 'abode' (ha) well for tenants who want friends to visit and neighbors alike.

' I imagine that clause would be enforced the same way that no pets clauses are. ' :  These clauses are enforced by relying on other tenants to police others. This burden will be put onto the neighbors. Not a very good 'community' project if that's the case. People blindly disobey the pet clause. You'd think they would care more about a pet than they would a car. Can you imagine having to give your pet up for adoption or face eviction. Oh wait....they do give pets up for this exact reason....or face eviction. People in Charlotte, as of now, are more concerned with a car than they are a pet. Sad I know.

https://www.wsoctv.com/news/local/charlotte-get-citys-1st-car-free-housing-development/424NGD3NSVFPVIPOKFIEBFM7BM/?_website=cmg-tv-10030

 

Edited October 21, 2020 by cityman4u
Addition

[RANYC]

I'm just looking to educate myself on the concerns here.  Adjacent residents are concerned that tenants of this new development (tenants entering into long-term lease obligations at that) will attest to not having a car, but then plan to bring their cars to a project they know has been designed without their cars in mind?  My gut reaction is that these concerns seem unfounded. 

All across Charlotte, there is an abundance of developments with easy accommodations for cars.  Most people with a car consider that car to be a significant personal asset, and when making mobility decisions, carefully consider placement options for this personal asset, at the destination.  Why would car owners be that reckless with such a significant personal asset?  Why would they enter into long-term lease obligations to then play "daily renegade" with their vehicles, especially when they have so many alternative options?  I have a hard time believing car-owners will jump into such inconveniences when it comes to living arrangements underpinned by contracts.

My sense is that people who buy into the marketing for this development, are likely young, hard-core climate change warriors, who live car-less as almost a badge of honor or as a key demonstration of their ethos.  I say make a product available to them and gauge demand.  Why shouldn't they be given an opportunity for housing without incurring the costs of accommodation for something they're against and disavow?  In a sense, why should our own car obsessions impose extra design costs on the places they choose for personal accommodations?

Others who buy in simply can't afford a car.  Everyday, they attempt to get around using mass transit or as pedestrians, lugging groceries and packages, finding themselves in any number of inconvenient situations us car owners struggle to fathom.  They're not likely getting constant "deliveries," because they're looking for bargains.  What this development does is it allows them to benefit from "design savings" by not bearing the design costs of a personal asset they don't even have the luxury of owning.  And they can perhaps benefit from these "design" savings while still proximal to the most concentrated area of job opportunities in the region.

I saw a stat that said 8% of Charlotteans don't own a car, perhaps because they can't afford one, or perhaps because they're against a car-centered life, or they just don't want to be bothered by its responsibilities.  Assuming the city/county population of around 1 million, that's 80,000 people who might have a keen interest in developments not natively designed for cars, and who might like to avoid paying for the car obsessions of everyone else.  This development is the first of its kind in the city (I find that hard to believe by the way) and will have 104 units.  Again, a potential market of at least 80,000.

Have some empathy folks.  I just don't get the controversy, but I'm open-minded.

Edited October 21, 2020 by RANYC

[kermit]

^ I would like that a thousand times if I could. Nice job articulating the details of the situation. I am not sure why its so hard for many of us (even here at UP!) to imagine that some people would like to live without a car. As Sustain Charlotte tweeted today "Folks deserve a choice to not pay for a parking spot that they won't use."

One other way to minimize the still non-existent (possibly never to emerge) crises might be to make the surrounding streets all pay to park (by phone) and give current residents a permit to park for a nominal rate (like in 4th Ward). Then any parking and fine revenue could be used to finance neighborhood amenities (such as contribute to the regular operation of the Seversville Streetcar). 

 

Edited October 22, 2020 by kermit

[videtur quam contuor]

Among the affordable unit tenants may be a few who are not able to drive a car due to physical condition or other reasons not financial based. This could become a truly interesting social experiment involving the ecologically concerned , value seekers, and moderate-low income individuals in a single community. Most new units in this market, in my opinion, tend to attract people of quite similar background and motivation.

Edited October 21, 2020 by tarhoosier

[kermit]

Bigggg News at the Savona Mill:

Quote

Atlanta-based Portman Holdings has acquired Savona Mill, at 528 S. Turner Ave., and surrounding land for $11.5 million, according to Mecklenburg County real estate records. Portman purchased the property from an affiliate of Argos Real Estate Advisors, a local commercial real estate firm that's owned Savona since 2012.

Portman also purchased most of the adjacent land, which totals more than 20 acres. The mill sits on a 4.2-acre parcel along Turner Avenue.

CBJ discusses last year's rezoning at the site (which bizzarely limited retail to 45,000 sq ft according to the article) but I can't help but wonder if the UDO is going to unlock a great deal of potential here. Regardless, big dollar developers planting a flag on the West Side will almost certainly trigger a bigger wave of new investments over here.

https://www.bizjournals.com/charlotte/news/2020/12/15/portman-holdings-buys-savona-mill-property.html

Edited December 15, 2020 by kermit

[RANYC]

18 minutes ago, kermit said:

Big News at the Savona Mill:

CBJ discusses last year's rezoning at the site but I can't help but wonder if the UDO is going to unlock a great deal of potential here.

https://www.bizjournals.com/charlotte/news/2020/12/15/portman-holdings-buys-savona-mill-property.html

I'm absolutely thrilled by this news.  Thrilled because a bigger balance sheet and portfolio will now be behind an adaptive reuse of a major historical landmark.  Also thrilled because I live 0.9 miles away from this site, and the Portman transaction suggests this may become a mixed-use hub for this region of Charlotte, bringing a measure of the amenities like those enjoyed by South-Enders.  Timing won't work out, but something like Big Ben's Pub could consider this site for relocation. 

Edited December 15, 2020 by RANYC

[Bikeguy]

^ There's also the distinct possibility that Portman will bring the necessary $$ to connect to,  and enhance the Stewart Creek Greenway.  $11.5 Mil may just be a steal.  

[CharlotteWkndBuzz]

One of the coolest things I've been to was this Flymore Drone Race inside the old Savona Mill sippin on some Blue Blaze.

http://argosadvisors.com/featured/flymore-drone-race-hosted-at-savona-mill/

 

Edited December 15, 2020 by CharlotteWkndBuzz